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Achiyama

New game offered: THE UNDERDOG GAME

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Dear Sumo Gamers,

First of all, Happy New Year 2015! I wish you all the best, much of luck and many successes in Sumo gaming.

Now the reason I am writing this thread.

I had an idea for a game which has been brewing in my head since 2012. At that time I was looking for some help regarding some Japanese wording, so thank you very much Jezz, Moti, Doreen and Susanoo!

So, I’ll try to launch a new game starting this coming 2015 Hatsu Basho.

It is a Daily Game – according to me not very complicated.

I named this Game “THE UNDERDOG GAME”.

I always admire the Underdogs when they win, so I said to myself: Isn’t it going to be nice to create such game for the Sumo gamers?

The game is pretty simple:

Just chose one Underdog every day, who you think will bring you most points.

Here is how many points could be won:

Basic points: The difference between the ranks of the rikishi.

Example 1: If Tokitenku (M13) defeats Ikioi (M2) – the basic points achieved will be 11.

Example 2: If Endo (M3) defeats Goeido (O2) – the basic points achieved will be 5.

Example 3: If Endo (M3) defeats Kotoshogiku (O1) – the basic points achieved will be 6.

Numerous Bonus points will be possible:

  1. Kinboshi (Maegashira defeats Yokozuna) – 10 points.
  2. Ginboshi (Maegashira defeats Ozeki) – 7 points.
  3. M-S bonus (Maegashira defeats Sekiwake) – 5 points.
  4. M-K bonus (Maegashira defeats Komusubi) – 3 points.
  5. K-Y bonus (Komusubi defeats Yokozuna) – 7 points.
  6. K-O bonus (Komusibi defeats Ozeki) – 5 points.
  7. K-S bonus (Komusubi defeats Sekiwake) – 3 points.
  8. S-Y bonus (Sekiwake defeats Yokozuna) – 5 points.
  9. S-O bonus (Sekiwake defeats Ozeki) – 3 points.
  10. O-Y bonus (Ozeki defeats Yokozuna) – 3 points.
  11. M13-M16 defeats M1-M4 – 7 points.
  12. M13-M16 defeats M5-M8 – 5 points.
  13. M13-M16 defeats M9-M12 – 3 points.
  14. M9-M12 defeats M1-M4 – 5 points.
  15. M9-M12 defeats M5-M8 – 3 points.
  16. M5-M8 defeats M1-M4 – 3 points.

Every day after the Torikumi is out, I’ll post on Sumoforum the Torikumi with the number of total points each of the Uderdogs could eventually win for you.

Sansho:

  1. Shukun-sho (Outstanding Performance) – Kachi-koshi player with most bonus points achieved during the basho.
  2. Gino-sho (Technique) – Kachi-Koshi player with the most daily points achieved (in case of a tie – the second daily most points, etc until the tie is broken).
  3. Kanto-sho (Fighting Spirit) – Kachi-koshi player with the most daily bonus points achieved (in case of a tie – same as for Gino-sho).

I'd greatly appreciate if you tell me whether you'll be interested to try this game.

Best Regards,

Achiyama

Edited by Achiyama
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I'll try it :-)

Day 1 'might' be a bit underwhelming, as rikishi of the same rank will normally be matched against each other (zero point matches?) - so there may only be matches featuring sanyaku foes which would be worth points.

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I think you need to make a ruling about 'fusensho' bouts - do they count (or not)? (Scratching chin...)

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I certainly hope fusens don't count. It's likely more necessary than it is for Chain Gang.

I suppose I'll play, especially if you're providing the number of points available for each bout; that certainly cuts down on the amount of work it would take me to make my best guess.

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I'll try it :-)

Day 1 'might' be a bit underwhelming, as rikishi of the same rank will normally be matched against each other (zero point matches?) - so there may only be matches featuring sanyaku foes which would be worth points.

Thanks Jezz,

You are right for Day 1 - but there will be the same options for everybody. Some days might have less points for grab than others.

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I certainly hope fusens don't count. It's likely more necessary than it is for Chain Gang.

I suppose I'll play, especially if you're providing the number of points available for each bout; that certainly cuts down on the amount of work it would take me to make my best guess.

Thanks Gurowake,

On the Fusensho matter, raised by Jezz, for the Inaugural basho I would allow Fusen wins, but similar to TTT game, Bonus points won't be awarded. Only the Basic points will count.

After the basho I'll revisit this matter and change the rule if needed.

Edited by Achiyama

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It's not clear just who is available for selection. Is it anyone in Makuuchi, anyone in a Makuuchi match, any sekitori, anyone in a sekitori match, or otherwise

I don't think the first two days will be any less interesting than later days since my first impression is that the highest expected value will come from predicting kinboshi or other upsets of sanyaku.

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It's not clear just who is available for selection. Is it anyone in Makuuchi, anyone in a Makuuchi match, any sekitori, anyone in a sekitori match, or otherwise

I don't think the first two days will be any less interesting than later days since my first impression is that the highest expected value will come from predicting kinboshi or other upsets of sanyaku.

This game is only for Makuuchi division from Hakuho down to Tosayutaka.

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Interesting. I'll give this one a go! Similar to TTT, eh...which is a great game.

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I'll try it :-)

Day 1 'might' be a bit underwhelming, as rikishi of the same rank will normally be matched against each other (zero point matches?) - so there may only be matches featuring sanyaku foes which would be worth points.

Sure, for the first few days but lately the torikumi makers have become pretty adventurous at an early stage. One test basho should be enough to check it out.

And if you are a really wily player, you'll go for the early days' upsets at the top..

Edited by Kintamayama

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Nice idea, I'll give it a try.

Seems this is the perfect game for Choshu-yuki, if only she could read this forum...

Ganzohnesushi

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I agree with Gernobono...I sense this will be an instant classic and should be automated eventually. It's a good idea to have the first basho on the forum as it gives everyone a chance to spot and iron out any little problems. This worked very well with TTT. And the results from the first basho, of course, will present with you an instant banzuke for the second.

You'll need some yusho tie-break rules, and I think most people like the criteria for tie-breaks to be different to that for the sansho. Another suggestion, if you want to encourage risky play, is to add a little bonus for the day's best score...say 2 or 3 points. That might encourage people to go for the big wins instead of playing safe. But people will probably do so anyway, I guess.

Ganzo: yeah, Choshu-Yuki will love this one. I'll email Susanoo when he clears his mail box and get him to tell the other Japanese players. They might join in.

This is an almost certain addition to the Superbanzuke in the near future, I reckon. Well done to Achiyama for creating this concept.

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Now why didn't I think of this game? You bet I'm in! But I usually don't frequent the forum, so how can I play?

Gaijingai

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The game sounds very nice. I'm also in!

Day 1 'might' be a bit underwhelming, as rikishi of the same rank will normally be matched against each other (zero point matches?) - so there may only be matches featuring sanyaku foes which would be worth points.

But on Day 1 there will be no match of the Maegashira 8, because Myogiryu and Sadanoumi are in the same heya, so you could get at least one point in their first matches and even 3 Bonus points if a M8 faces a M9... :-)

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This game sounds so good and interesting! If I´m able to play it every day, I´m also in.

And it should be automated in the near future, because TUG has a great future :-)

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Nice idea, I will definitely give it a try.

Maybe some tweaking is needed after the first basho. At the moment I could imagine that the dullest strategy (always pick the biggest point potentials) would win yushos too often, but maybe I'm wrong. Actually, I would not become a huge fan of the game if the dullest strategy would win yushos at all. We'll see.

As for an automation of the game, it would be interesting to hear Golynohana's opinion. In my limited understanding, all this game would need would be the Odd Sumo entry form and an implementation of Achiyama's point system.

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Now why didn't I think of this game? You bet I'm in! But I usually don't frequent the forum, so how can I play?

Gaijingai

I can e-mail you everything I post on Sumoforum.

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Nice idea, I will definitely give it a try.Maybe some tweaking is needed after the first basho. At the moment I could imagine that the dullest strategy (always pick the biggest point potentials) would win yushos too often, but maybe I'm wrong. Actually, I would not become a huge fan of the game if the dullest strategy would win yushos at all. We'll see.As for an automation of the game, it would be interesting to hear Golynohana's opinion. In my limited understanding, all this game would need would be the Odd Sumo entry form and an implementation of Achiyama's point system.

Thanks Rando-zeki,

Of course after the inaugural basho I am planning to do a Round Table and discuss how we can improve TUG.

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I like this idea.

Normally, I would avoid adding another daily game but I cannot resist giving this one a try.

Happy New Year everyone!

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