Kyushu 2014 - General Talk

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

Hmm... well, he still has a bit of work to do to earn me a good steak, but I guess Jakusotsu already can look for a good one. :-D

That steak is still grazing happily on an Argentinian meadow. In two months time we'll decide whether it's going to the slaughter. B-)

(for the record: a simple KK will do)

[Tsubame 378]

Aoiyama did a pretty good henka. Never would have seen that one coming. Aoi just needs to win his last three and he'll be at 22 wins - 11 away from Ozeki promotion. He has the size, but he has to keep his balance and not extend too much on his arm thrusts.

Did I have an other database?! If Aoiyama wins his last three two fights, he will have a 10-5 9-6 record. And if they count his last basho as M3 (what I doubt), the he has accumulate 20 19 wins, at least 12 13 wins short of a possible promotion.

Edited November 21, 2014 by Tsubame

[bettega 433]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

[teo_heel 33]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

Hm, you think, that he will beat Hafumafuji and Kakuryu?

[Asameshimae 220]

Big-time Asashoryu fans not quite understanding how Ozumo works was a common theme around these parts between 2003 and 2010.

Heck, I think he should come out of retirement. Sumo could use a guy like him. :-P

[krindel 688]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

He's only one win ahead of Kakuryu, isn't he? Kakuryu still has the chance to force the playoff, even if Hakuho beats Harumafuji

[Mongolith 51]

Amazing fight between Ichi and Shin. Finally goes back to being the immovable man mountain. Looked pretty bad yesterday but my guess is he was giving the home town boy a win. Kadoban is gonna be hard to avoid if the Kak and Haru don't take pity on the Geeku. Maybe they will cause Hak has this bad boy wrapped up.

[Morty 1,518]

Amazing fight between Ichi and Shin. Finally goes back to being the immovable man mountain. Looked pretty bad yesterday but my guess is he was giving the home town boy a win. Kadoban is gonna be hard to avoid if the Kak and Haru don't take pity on the Geeku. Maybe they will cause Hak has this bad boy wrapped up.

I don't think Ichinojo gave Giku the win yesterday - I reckon Ichinjo might have an issue with short guys who come in with a low centre of gravity. HF, Goeido and Giku have all used that to their advantage this basho. Tochinoshin tried to match him on the "tall guy picks up the opponent" gig and it didn't work. All the force coming from up high rather than down low

[dingo 1,483]

Amazing fight between Ichi and Shin. Finally goes back to being the immovable man mountain. Looked pretty bad yesterday but my guess is he was giving the home town boy a win. Kadoban is gonna be hard to avoid if the Kak and Haru don't take pity on the Geeku. Maybe they will cause Hak has this bad boy wrapped up.

Nope, not wrapped up by far because Kakuryu and Hakuho still have to fight and there's a real chance of a kettei-sen.

On another note, I don't like at all how Kyokutenho turns into an Automatic Win Dispensing Machine after his kachikoshi. I get that he's 40 and doesn't want to injure himself and yadda yadda, but it's especially obvious and embarrassing this basho after his 8-1 start. He could clearly win more, he just doesn't want to, so he might as well go kyujo after kachikoshi -- even less chance of injury. Other guys, like Takayasu who had an epic match today with Aoiyama, still check in after 8 wins. Kyokutenho's behavior is not honourable nor is it fair to other rikishi who are racking up wins at his expense as opposed to the guys who had to fight him straight on in the first half of the basho.

[Kotogouryuu 143]

On another note, I don't like at all how Kyokutenho turns into an Automatic Win Dispensing Machine after his kachikoshi.

I have to kind of agree. He is playing it safe but it's not really to the spirit of things. It's just that he doesn't want a big promotion, he'll get pummeled in the upper makuuchi. So the rules kind of put him in this position.

[krindel 688]

On another note, I don't like at all how Kyokutenho turns into an Automatic Win Dispensing Machine after his kachikoshi. I get that he's 40 and doesn't want to injure himself and yadda yadda, but it's especially obvious and embarrassing this basho after his 8-1 start. He could clearly win more, he just doesn't want to, so he might as well go kyujo after kachikoshi -- even less chance of injury. Other guys, like Takayasu who had an epic match today with Aoiyama, still check in after 8 wins. Kyokutenho's behavior is not honourable nor is it fair to other rikishi who are racking up wins at his expense as opposed to the guys who had to fight him straight on in the first half of the basho.

Takayasu is very much interested in getting more than 8 wins, he is gunning for a sanyaku spot after all...

Having said that, and although I do admire Kyokutenho greatly, I agree that he obviously doesn't want to go anywhere near the jo'i again, so he's happy staying at a comfy 8 wins... And, at his age, you also need to factor in accumulating tiredness (if you check his last few non jo'i basho you'll see he tends to lose more the second week than the first, even when ending up MK), and the rising level of opposition he got the more wins he got.

After all, first week he fought some guys who mostly ended up with bad MK scores, then he got to fighting Chiyotairyu, Endo, Okinoumi, Toyonoshima, Jokoryu, Tochinoshin and Chiyootori (plus a very motivated Kotoyuki) all in a row, none of which is a pushover. And I would also like to point out that of all those 7 people plus Kotoyuki he won against every one against whom he had a positive or a not very negative history, and lost against all against whom he had a prior losing history. Out of his loses, he has lost 5 out of 6 against Jokoryu, has never defeated Chiyootori or Kotoyuki and has a 5-7 record against Tochinoshin (but his last win against him was 2 and a half years ago, and if anyone expected present day Kyokutenho to defeat present day Tochinoshin I'd be very surprised).

Basically when the going got tougher, he won against the people he usually can handle, and lost against the people he never could handle very well...

Edited November 21, 2014 by krindel

[Tsubame 378]

Amazing fight between Ichi and Shin. Finally goes back to being the immovable man mountain. Looked pretty bad yesterday but my guess is he was giving the home town boy a win. Kadoban is gonna be hard to avoid if the Kak and Haru don't take pity on the Geeku. Maybe they will cause Hak has this bad boy wrapped up.

I don't think Ichinojo gave Giku the win yesterday - I reckon Ichinjo might have an issue with short guys who come in with a low centre of gravity. HF, Goeido and Giku have all used that to their advantage this basho. Tochinoshin tried to match him on the "tall guy picks up the opponent" gig and it didn't work. All the force coming from up high rather than down low

You are right and I agree with your observation, but maybe, just maybe, Ichinojo wants to join the famous OBSC someday and just pleases its current members. Just maybe... :-D

[lackmaker 454]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

He's only one win ahead of Kakuryu, isn't he? Kakuryu still has the chance to force the playoff, even if Hakuho beats Harumafuji

No.32 is not quite done but one way or the other he would need to lose 2 consecutive bouts to be denied.

[teo_heel 33]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

He's only one win ahead of Kakuryu, isn't he? Kakuryu still has the chance to force the playoff, even if Hakuho beats Harumafuji

No.32 is not quite done but one way or the other he would need to lose 2 consecutive bouts to be denied.

Hakuho can lose only one bout to Kakuryu and if Kakuryu beat Kotoshogiku tomorrow, then we will see a kettei sen.

[Mongolith 51]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

He's only one win ahead of Kakuryu, isn't he? Kakuryu still has the chance to force the playoff, even if Hakuho beats Harumafuji

No.32 is not quite done but one way or the other he would need to lose 2 consecutive bouts to be denied.

Hakuho can lose only one bout to Kakuryu and if Kakuryu beat Kotoshogiku tomorrow, then we will see a kettei sen.

Well he would Need to lose on day 14 and day 15 to be denied of #32 or he would need to lose on day 15 and kettei-sen is what he meant. Kinda agree with him as I do not see Hak dropping two in a row. Hak is in another league even to the other Yoks. I may have jumped the gun saying the basho is wrapped up though, but I really expect him to handle Kak like he did last basho tough.

[Umigame 82]

Today's Kakuryu/Goeido match was odd. Hard to discern whether Kakuryu reacted to what he thought was a matta...or if his strategy was to henka.

To me it seemed like Kakuryu was surprised to see Goiedo just rushing forward without any idea where he was going, so he just decided to shown him the way out. I may be giving Kak too much credit here, but that was a good example of how a henka is done to an opponent who isn't maintaining his own balance.

Kakuryū and Aoiyama henka? What’s going on?

Can't really blame Kakuryu's henka either. Goeido gave it to him by being too low and not looking. Just kinda sucked though because I wanted a better match.

As expected, Kakuryu's henka yesterday did not go over well with many Japanese fans.

The sports news sites report that the arena was in an uproar and Kakuryu was jeered repeatedly.

(Protesting...)

(Being thrown tomatoes at...)

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20141120/sum14112020220008-n1.html

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/p-sp-tp3-20141121-1398864.html

Edited November 21, 2014 by Umigame

[lackmaker 454]

That's it - Hak's 32th Yusho is very close now with 2 wins ahead.

He's only one win ahead of Kakuryu, isn't he? Kakuryu still has the chance to force the playoff, even if Hakuho beats Harumafuji

No.32 is not quite done but one way or the other he would need to lose 2 consecutive bouts to be denied.

Hakuho can lose only one bout to Kakuryu and if Kakuryu beat Kotoshogiku tomorrow, then we will see a kettei sen.

Well he would Need to lose on day 14 and day 15 to be denied of #32 or he would need to lose on day 15 and kettei-sen is what he meant. Kinda agree with him as I do not see Hak dropping two in a row. Hak is in another league even to the other Yoks. I may have jumped the gun saying the basho is wrapped up though, but I really expect him to handle Kak like he did last basho tough.

He is still the top man, but if he should lose from this position questions will be asked. And maybe doubts in his own mind?

[Gernobono 467]

Hakuho can lose only one bout to Kakuryu and if Kakuryu beat Kotoshogiku tomorrow, then we will see a kettei sen.

for neither will happen

hakuho will win out and kotoshogiku will win aginst harumafuji

just face it....if hakuho did not slip against takayasu he would be on for another zensho

[evilwaldo 11]

1 more win and Hakuho gets 80 for the year which is an outstanding accomplishment.

Not to be outdone Kakuryu has 70 wins which is exemplary for his first year as Yokozuna.

[teo_heel 33]

Hakuho can lose only one bout to Kakuryu and if Kakuryu beat Kotoshogiku tomorrow, then we will see a kettei sen.

for neither will happen

hakuho will win out and kotoshogiku will win aginst harumafuji

just face it....if hakuho did not slip against takayasu he would be on for another zensho

OK, but I don't think, that Hakuho would be on for zensho. He lose one bout for basho this year, and that's a fact!

[ALAKTORN 346]

Tochinoshin–Ichinojō made me think that Tochi is a one-trick pony. Trying to yori Ichi straight-on like that, really? Bah.

Kyokutenhō said he wanted to get double digit wins, but he’s gonna have to win both of his last matches for that, now. :(

[dingo 1,483]

On another note, I don't like at all how Kyokutenho turns into an Automatic Win Dispensing Machine after his kachikoshi. I get that he's 40 and doesn't want to injure himself and yadda yadda, but it's especially obvious and embarrassing this basho after his 8-1 start. He could clearly win more, he just doesn't want to, so he might as well go kyujo after kachikoshi -- even less chance of injury. Other guys, like Takayasu who had an epic match today with Aoiyama, still check in after 8 wins. Kyokutenho's behavior is not honourable nor is it fair to other rikishi who are racking up wins at his expense as opposed to the guys who had to fight him straight on in the first half of the basho.

Takayasu is very much interested in getting more than 8 wins, he is gunning for a sanyaku spot after all...

Having said that, and although I do admire Kyokutenho greatly, I agree that he obviously doesn't want to go anywhere near the jo'i again, so he's happy staying at a comfy 8 wins... And, at his age, you also need to factor in accumulating tiredness (if you check his last few non jo'i basho you'll see he tends to lose more the second week than the first, even when ending up MK), and the rising level of opposition he got the more wins he got.

After all, first week he fought some guys who mostly ended up with bad MK scores, then he got to fighting Chiyotairyu, Endo, Okinoumi, Toyonoshima, Jokoryu, Tochinoshin and Chiyootori (plus a very motivated Kotoyuki) all in a row, none of which is a pushover. And I would also like to point out that of all those 7 people plus Kotoyuki he won against every one against whom he had a positive or a not very negative history, and lost against all against whom he had a prior losing history. Out of his loses, he has lost 5 out of 6 against Jokoryu, has never defeated Chiyootori or Kotoyuki and has a 5-7 record against Tochinoshin (but his last win against him was 2 and a half years ago, and if anyone expected present day Kyokutenho to defeat present day Tochinoshin I'd be very surprised).

Basically when the going got tougher, he won against the people he usually can handle, and lost against the people he never could handle very well...

Well yes he's had tougher opposition also, but he could at least try to put up a fight. Today he might as well not have stepped on the dohyo at all...

Hakuho can lose only one bout to Kakuryu and if Kakuryu beat Kotoshogiku tomorrow, then we will see a kettei sen.

for neither will happen

hakuho will win out and kotoshogiku will win aginst harumafuji

just face it....if hakuho did not slip against takayasu he would be on for another zensho

I think Hakuho slipped at the end, but by that time he'd already lost the bout so it didn't really influence it that much. Takayasu really managed to get him on his own.

Tochinoshin–Ichinojō made me think that Tochi is a one-trick pony. Trying to yori Ichi straight-on like that, really? Bah.

Kyokutenhō said he wanted to get double digit wins, but he’s gonna have to win both of his last matches for that, now. :(

Didn't Tochinoshin yorikiri Ichinojo out twice in Juryo just like that? Maybe he thought if it worked before why not try again...

[ALAKTORN 346]

^I don’t remember their jūryō bouts, but while watching today’s I thought for the whole time that Tochinoshin had no idea what he was doing. Once they got into that position there was no way Ichinojō was gonna be moved an inch. You either need to get him quickly, or try something else. Tochinoshin failed at both today.

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

"Not knowing what he was doing" sounds harsh. He seemed to have a plan (quick yorikiri) but had to deal with the stalemate, as you pointed out. In this context it might be interesting that Toshinoshin's use of throwing techniques (in his case mainly uwatenage) has decreased quite a bit in comparison to his earlier career. We can speculate about the reason, but (as Hakuho showed) uwate(dashi)nage might be a relevant strategy against Ichinojo for any future encounters.

You need to be strong, though.

(Sidenote: What *I* thought watching the bout was: "If Ichinojo can improve in a certain department, it might be arm strength, or rather acceleration." He was standing there in shitatenage territory for a long time, not even considering it, it seems.)

Edit: Input on techniques' requirements and constraints welcome.

Edited November 21, 2014 by yorikiried by fate

[Asameshimae 220]

Now that Ichinojo is thrust into the big leagues - and quickly, I think he is more apprehensive than many expected. He knew he lost to Tochinoshin in a decisive bout for the juryo yusho, and knew that Tochinoshin had the stuff to beat him (when many don't) and that made him cautious. Heck, Tochinoshin was the only man in sumo who had beat Ichinojo twice besides the eminent Hakuho, and Tochinoshin did it twice in a row. Kudos to Ichinojo for facing this and coming out with a win in the end.

Again Ichinojo is proving to be exactly what I hoped: a serious force to be reckoned with, but not so dominant that he makes others look like chopped liver. Of course, it's still early.