Jaak 7 Posted March 27, 2014 What has been the longest ever tomoe-sen, in any division? If a division has 2 equal members, they fight, the match normally produces a winner (last draw in a bout was in 1974 or so, and that was not a kettei-sen for a yusho), and the winner gets the yusho. If the division has 4 equal members, they are paired by lots, each pair fights and produces a winner, and the winners fight and produce a yusho winner. If there are 8 equal members then again they are paired by lots, and the outcome of a single bout narrows the choice to 4, then 2, then 1. If there are 7 equal members then 1 of the 7 gets to be among the 4 without fight, and then there are 4 left fighting as above. But if there are 3 equal members, then there is a tomoe-sen: it can be won if any of the 3 wins two successive bout... but if every bout winner goes on to lose the next bout then tomoe-sen can go on indefinitely. 5 or 6 or 9...12 members of a division would likewise reduce to a tomoe-sen. Now, there has never been more than 5 members of a playoff in makuuchi. But lower divisions have just 7 days to fight, and as many as 200+ fighters in a division (jonidan), so playoffs, incl. tomoe-sens, should be more common. So what was the longest tomoe-sen ever, in number of bouts between 3 equal competitors? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senkoho 552 Posted March 27, 2014 most bouts in tomoe-sen: Makushita (10 bouts, 9 rikishi) - http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Results.aspx?b=197011&d=16 Sandanme (10 bouts, 11 rikishi) - http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Results.aspx?b=196409&d=16 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Senkoho 552 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) and another interesting query: Rikishi with the most kettei-sen/tomoe-sen bouts (click Expand for details) http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&day=16 Edited March 27, 2014 by Senkoho 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted March 27, 2014 and another interesting query: Rikishi with the most kettei-sen/tomoe-sen bouts (click Expand for details) http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi1&day=16 As expected, many Yokozuna on the list and this Dewanoshima guy in beetwen. The Japanese wikipedia has a short but informative article about him. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%87%BA%E7%BE%BD%E3%81%AE%E6%B4%B2%E8%81%96 In short, a much heralded prospect who had to quit at the age of 26 because of a heart disease. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 124 Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) the tomoe-sen in Makuuchi look like this Asashoryu had half of his tomoe-sen bouts in non-sekitori ranks. Musashimaru (unfortunately) was not very productive in such bouts ... Especially against Taka .... (probably a reason i never liked him (In jonokuchi...)) and this is how Juryo looks like in the tomoe-sen department. and this a list for more yusho through the play-off system. Asashoryu and Chiyonofuji were true grinders on the dohyo, but Hakuho may go past them with another yusho through a kettei-sen. Edited March 27, 2014 by aderechelsea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,954 Posted March 27, 2014 As far as I know the longest tomoe-sen was Kyushu 1994 in jonidan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaak 7 Posted March 28, 2014 As far as I know the longest tomoe-sen was Kyushu 1994 in jonidan. Thanks - that´s exactly what I was interested in. 7 bouts before the match was resolved. And a simple statistic for the general frequency of playoffs: Since 2011, in 19 basho makuuchi has had 3 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens juryo had 5 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens makushita had 2 playoffs, but both had exactly 8 contestants, so resolved by kettei-sens sandanme had 10 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens jonidan had 7 playoffs, of which Haru 2013, with 9 contestants, led to tomoe-sen which Kinunonami won in 2 bouts; the rest were simple kettei-sens jonokuchi had 4 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens. So, out of 114 yusho, 29 needed playoffs, only 3 had more than 2 contestants, and only 1 led to tomoe-sen, and that resolved in 2 bouts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaak 7 Posted March 28, 2014 Previous 18 basho, 2008...2010, makuuchi: 5 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens 24 basho, 2004...2007, makuuchi: 5 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens 24 basho, 2000...2003, makuuchi: 3 playoffs, all simple kettei-sens 18 basho, 1997...1999, makuuchi: 6 playoffs. 5 were simple kettei-sens, and Haru 1997 had 4 contestants, so resolved by kettei-sens. 24 basho, 1993...1996, makuuchi: 7 playoffs. 4 were simple kettei-sens, 3 tomoe-sens. Last makuuchi tomoe-sen was Kyushu 1996: 5 contestants reduced to tomoe-sen that resolved in 2 bouts. Haru 1994 tomoe-sen resolved in 3 bouts, and Nagoya 1993 tomoe-sen in 2 bouts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treblemaker 254 Posted March 31, 2014 Wouldn't it be simpler to group all the contestants in the ring at the same time (like a Battle Royal) and have them duke it out until there's only one left standing? It would take less time, and I'm sure the crowd would love it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites