Haru 2014 discussion thread **probable spoilers**

[Kintamayama 42,292]

setting a dangerous precedent if he is promoted without the back-to-backs.

A return to the days of tepid yokozuna performances a la late 80s/early 90s.

Disagree. For all intents and purposes, it was back to back. A playoff loss was always counted as a "yusho equivalent". As for tepid yokozunas, let's just wait and see. Wakanohana 3 was promoted by winning back to back and was quite tepid.

Summary-we shall see.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Kintamayama

[Masumasumasu 902]

I think this is the NSK's new strategy. They push all the best foreigners into the Yokozuna rank. Then - in a surprise move - they declare the rank illegal. Voila!

No need. Hakuho is descending.

Harumafuji (an excellent rikishi in many ways) is facing retirement in the near future IMO.

Kakuryu until recently was 'Mr. Nine-and-six'. As much as I like him, I predict that he will return to his old ways sooner rather than later.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first.

This is the guy who landed on his head earlier in the basho to avoid losing a bout. The hand down should have cost him.

Harumafuji was the clear aggressor. Hakuho was flying backwards. The decision was appropriate.

[ALAKTORN 346]

I’ve been meaning to mention, what was up with the Hakuhō–Harumafuji tachi-ais (both times)? They were totally not your usual tachi-ai, especially Hakuhō’s. It felt like the ’80s or ’90s again, whenever that squat-then-instantly-charge tachi-ai was popular.

[Kurt Trendafilov 5]

Yeah, I also noticed the difference.

By the way, was the transition from "squat-then-instantly-charge tachi-ai" to the current one imposed from above, or rikishis' style just gradually change?

[ronnie 221]

Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first.

This is the guy who landed on his head earlier in the basho to avoid losing a bout. The hand down should have cost him.

Harumafuji was the clear aggressor. Hakuho was flying backwards. The decision was appropriate.

Watch the bout again, especially the slo-mo. Hakuho executed a throw at the edge, turning Harumafuji in the air, which caused him to put his hand down.

[Morty 1,431]

Looked like shini-tai to me, Harumafuji just touched down to not hurt himself, could’ve easily kept the hand up and let Hakuhō fall first.

This is the guy who landed on his head earlier in the basho to avoid losing a bout. The hand down should have cost him.

Harumafuji was the clear aggressor. Hakuho was flying backwards. The decision was appropriate.

Watch the bout again, especially the slo-mo. Hakuho executed a throw at the edge, turning Harumafuji in the air, which caused him to put his hand down.

That's also what it looked like to me. Hak should have won that one.

[Asashosakari 17,282]

It's pretty much the standard solution, though, at least these days. The lower divisions are full of these "one rikishi was clearly the aggressor, but touched down slightly earlier while blasting the other guy off the dohyo -> torinaoshi is called" bouts. I must admit I don't have a problem with it, and going by Umigame's comment they've even come up with a semi-credible explanation with their "the shinitai was timed just so" in this one.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 42,292]

Ring ring.. Driing ring..

Kotoshougiku: "Well, it worked like a charm, every detail was perfect.."

Hakuhou: "You had doubts? You sound like YOU should be thanked for planning this.."

K : "No, no, but it just seemed so easy.."

H; "It is, with me on your side, so don't forget it.. And vice versa.."

K: "Is his promotion final?"

H: "Yes it is."

K: "When I get better, can I be part of the fun too?'

H: "Bye.."

Click.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Would Kakuryu have won the yusho had Hakuho not been injured?

[bettega 388]

I think it would - he was "in the zone" this basho

Next one? We'll see

[Vikanohara 171]

Okinoumi...

How can he start a basho with winning against Kakuryu (in his arguably best basho ever) and then finish 5-10???

When will he show a more stable ability?

Perhaps he thought he had already won the Yusho after beating the man of the year (so far) ?

[Vikanohara 171]

Ring ring.. Driing ring..

Kotoshougiku: "Well, it worked like a charm, every detail was perfect.."

Hakuhou: "You had doubts? You sound like YOU should be thanked for planning this.."

K : "No, no, but it just seemed so easy.."

H; "It is, with me on your side, so don't forget it.. And vice versa.."

K: "Is his promotion final?"

H: "Yes it is."

K: "When I get better, can I be part of the fun too?'

H: "Bye.."

Click.

Hilarious. Must remember to save my likes a bit more. :-P

[ronnie 221]

Ring ring.. Driing ring..

Kotoshougiku: "Well, it worked like a charm, every detail was perfect.."

Hakuhou: "You had doubts? You sound like YOU should be thanked for planning this.."

K : "No, no, but it just seemed so easy.."

H; "It is, with me on your side, so don't forget it.. And vice versa.."

K: "Is his promotion final?"

H: "Yes it is."

K: "When I get better, can I be part of the fun too?'

H: "Bye.."

Click.

Superb!

[Asashosakari 17,282]

Hard to believe it was only a year and a half ago when we had 6 ozeki...now most likely down to 2 next tournament.

Oh, and some people were saying Kakuryu didn't deserve that promotion, either. ;-)

Edited March 23, 2014 by Asashosakari

[rzombie1988 157]

Hard to believe it was only a year and a half ago when we had 6 ozeki...now most likely down to 2 next tournament.

Oh, and some people were saying Kakuryu didn't deserve that promotion, either. ;-)

And some were saying Kisenosato should have been promoted. That would have ended well. ;-)

[Treblemaker 254]

setting a dangerous precedent if he is promoted without the back-to-backs.

Call it the Kisenosato 'rule'..... ;-)

? Kise wouldn't have been promoted but one thing he has (had) that Kakuryu still lacks is consistency over an extended period.

What???!?

The only thing Kise's been consistent at is losing key bouts and/or not showing up for the ones that should be an easy over. His promotion was done out of sympathy; emotion-driven. Talent he has. Consistent (as in winning when he needs to), he's certainly not. He's as reliable as the Rhythm Method.

The only thing Kak's done is be a real consistent threat over the past two years, AND, oh yeah, he just won a tournament! Beating both Yokozunas. And all remaining Ozeki. And everyone else in Sanyaku.

What did Kise do this basho (and every other basho)? Lay eggs.

If Goeido gets promoted to Ozeki, I put down a bet of a steak dinner right now that says he'll become a Yokozuna before Kise does.

[Asashosakari 17,282]

And some were saying Kisenosato should have been promoted. That would have ended well. ;-)

I obviously missed that... People may have said that Kise should be promoted if he achieves X, but given that he didn't achieve X (whatever somebody's particular X might have been), it's kind of irrelevant. No sane person thought that Kise actually did something worthy of promotion.

[Yubinhaad 10,934]

The only thing Kak's done is be a real consistent threat over the past two years, AND, oh yeah, he just won a tournament! Beating both Yokozunas. And all remaining Ozeki. And everyone else in Sanyaku.

Really? So when he was storming away to those 8-7 and 9-6 results in 2012 and 2013, he was a consistent threat? To whom, exactly? If you'd kept it to the second part of that sentence then your argument is absolutely correct, and Kakuryu deserves to be promoted to Yokozuna. But please don't try and rewrite history. Kakuryu has done exactly the same thing as Harumafuji - emerge from a period of relatively ordinary results and find the purple patch of excellent results to earn the promotion.

I don't believe the Yokozuna rank should be somehow shielded in advance from what some might consider potentially duff promotions. The simple truth is that there's no way to know how good a Yokozuna will be until he's there. Anyone who doesn't truly belong there will be found out eventually. But equally, wearing the tsuna could be the making of the man, in the same way that the maillot jaune of the Tour de France can make a rider push himself that little bit further, absorb that little bit more pain to hang on to it (I'm specifically thinking of Thomas Voeckler here).

On a completely unrelated topic, I'm pleased to see Tokitenku on the way back up. I know he was at a lower rank this time so he would be expected to do better, but to be honest I had him in the same boat as Kotooshu, starting to struggle physically, motivation waning, citizenship in the bag a couple of months ago etc. He's one of the few Mongolians I'll actively root for so I'm happy for him to get double digits. It's kind of nice to see Sokokurai getting back into the swing of things as well.

Satoyama reaches the new oyakata qualification next basho, doesn't he? Of course I want him to stick around on the dohyo for a while yet, but when he does call it quits I sincerely hope he stays on in the Kyokai.

[wanderer 159]

Thanks for those clarifications Asashosakari and wanderer. And last question, was the Kyokushuzan/Asashoryu divide started due to Kyokushuzan being the elder and Asashoryu usurping his accomplishments so to speak? Surely it began before the mage pulling, mirror breaking incident.

I think this has more than a grain of salt in it. Asashoryu basically wanred to be recognized as the greatest both in Japan and Mongolia. He also has a character that he wants to be a leader of a pack or gang even when he was is middle school. But Kyokushuzan was an old fart that has taken care of many youngsters including Asa himself, and commanded far more respect due to his wisdoms. Asashoryu hates to be advised by anyone. That was it.

[bettega 388]

Hard to believe it was only a year and a half ago when we had 6 ozeki...now most likely down to 2 next tournament.

Oh, and some people were saying Kakuryu didn't deserve that promotion, either. ;-)

In 2-3 years (give or take a basho) I saw two new Yokozuna (Ama and Kak) but no Ozeki, Interesting times

[rzombie1988 157]

If Kakuryu gets promoted, you have to wonder what is going on in Kisenosato's head. Kak basically just took his promotion away from him.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Will Kakuryu become a kimboshi liability? Don't forget, many of his wins over the past two basho were achieved via hikiotoshi.

[Benevolance 2,349]

It's not like they've got a finite number of spots available. If Kise can pull together a jun-yusho + yusho, he can still get the rope.

[specialweek 2 134]

Will Kakuryu become a kimboshi liability? Don't forget, many of his wins over the past two basho were achieved via hikiotoshi.

Via Hikiotoshi?

You mean he pulled to then win by some other means?