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Otokonoyama

Hatsu 2014 Discussion - *contains spoilers

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Day 12, 8517 spectators

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20140124/sum14012405020000-n1.html

Kisenosato today aggravated his injury, a severe toe ligament damage, with no bone broken and no dislocation but surely much pain. Usually 3-4 weeks fixated are needed to fully heal it, but he won't go kyujo.

http://www.daily.co.jp/newsflash/sumo/2014/01/24/0006660295.shtml

In a bizarre way, not going kyujo and possibly aggravating it even more might take some pressure to perform off of him for the next basho or two...

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Since becoming Ozeki, Kotooshu only once (in 2009) achieved 32 wins in 3 folowing tournaments. The only time he was good enough to qualify for Ozeki after becoming one already. He was always good enough to keep his rank and semms to have often not used his full potential, but it seems nearly impossible for him to get back to Ozeki. But he is still as good (or better) than Goeido and only 30 years old - too young to retire.

I don't see Endo having the body he needs to, to become Ozeki. Much rather I think, Osunaarashi good reach this goal in a few years. But right now there is no real big hope for any new Ozeki. Maybe Ichinojo.

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So Kise needs a little help from his (ozeki) friend (Kotoshogiku) tomorrow to avoid going kadoban.

Who woulda thunk two weeks ago...

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So Kise needs a little help from his (ozeki) friend (Kotoshogiku) tomorrow to avoid going kadoban.

Who woulda thunk two weeks ago...

With his foot injury, Kise might collapse if Giku merely leans against him. Then again, Giku's shoulder might not actually be up to that task, either...

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So Kise needs a little help from his (ozeki) friend (Kotoshogiku) tomorrow to avoid going kadoban.

Who woulda thunk two weeks ago...

With his foot injury, Kise might collapse if Giku merely leans against him. Then again, Giku's shoulder might not actually be up to that task, either...

Based on what I have seen in terms of Ozeki tricks, I expect Giku to perform the tachiai collapse to the side. Kotomitsuki was "good"at that.

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Day 13, full house with 10304 spectators

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20140125/sum14012505040003-n1.html

If Kakuryu wins against Hakuho tomorrow he'll have a yokozuna run next basho, with yusho or play-off loss.

http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/sumo/news/20140124-OHT1T00223.htm

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Endo is tied for fastest double-digits makuuchi result with later Asashio and Yutakayama. Fastest sansho is by Miyabiyama with 5, followed by the same two above.

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/sumo/news/p-sp-tp3-20140125-1248593.html

Kanto-sho or Gino-sho (that would be fastest) for Endo?

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Day 13, full house with 10304 spectators

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20140125/sum14012505040003-n1.html

If Kakuryu wins against Hakuho tomorrow he'll have a yokozuna run next basho, with yusho or play-off loss.

http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/sumo/news/20140124-OHT1T00223.htm

Frankly, I can think of very few disasters for the Kyokai right now worse than Yokozuna Kakuryu. I think even yusho holder Kakuryu would be quite bad.

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If Kakuryu wins against Hakuho tomorrow he'll have a yokozuna run next basho, with yusho or play-off loss.

http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/sumo/news/20140124-OHT1T00223.htm

I.e. if not, he won't? I thought I read something about being "in contention" before the last day or something similar? na?

The news was Kitanoumi talk and from before today's bout, but 14-1 was mentioned as necessary - he is not Japanese.

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What the heck happened in today's Hakuho match? It looked like Hakuho just tickled the inside of Kotoshogiku's knee and he then threw himself to the ground. Is that some kind of knee jerk reaction (no pun intended) like when the doctor checks your reflexes by hitting you below the knee with the little hammer? I certainly couldn't see enough force applied for that big of a reaction or even a throw to follow it and I watched it several times. Is Giku's knee in that much pain and Hakuho slapped it?

Edited by Mukonoso
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What the heck happened in today's Hakuho match? It looked like Hakuho just tickled the inside of Kotoshogiku's knee and he then threw himself to the ground. Is that some kind of knee jerk reaction (no pun intended) like when the doctor checks your reflexes by hitting you below the knee with the little hammer? I certainly couldn't see enough force applied for that big of a reaction or even a throw to follow it and I watched it several times. Is Giku's knee in that much pain and Hakuho slapped it?

Thank you, I was thinking the same things. I'd like to know what Hakuho did to cause that reaction, because I can't see where he did anything in particular (including bending joints and appendages in the wrong directions). It was like Kotoshogiku suddenly decided to roll over for Hakuho - literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4TWjt1Y8ioY

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It looks like Giku was off-balance, leaning on Hakuho with everything. Hakuho just removed the two points of support by sliding the leg a little and moving his own body out of the way. Giku had no belt grip with the outside arm, and it's not like Giku was going to hold on very well with his injured shoulder anyway. That was slick.

Edited by Benevolance
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I was an unbeliever. I confess.

But Endou really looks the real deal. He studies his opponents, he tries to counter-act their styles like today with Satoyama,

Endou Komosubi nest basho! Let's look him against all the sanyaku!

Edited by bettega
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Bouts between these two are usually leveled in strength until the point Kotoshogiku loses his footing. Today was no different. Kotoshogiku was using considerable strength to hold that stance and keep the Yozokuna away from his mawashi. Knowing that, Hakuho swiftly shifted to the side with both his knees bent and by unbalancing Giku's right knee it was over. Giku had to 'roll over' to avoid aggravating one of his many injuries. Judo wrestlers learn how fall this way and I suppose rikishi also do. Kotomitsuki was a master of this technique and if you look at any of this bouts won in this fashion, the decisive moment happens in a flash and it is indeed hard to spot.

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What the heck happened in today's Hakuho match? It looked like Hakuho just tickled the inside of Kotoshogiku's knee and he then threw himself to the ground. Is that some kind of knee jerk reaction (no pun intended) like when the doctor checks your reflexes by hitting you below the knee with the little hammer? I certainly couldn't see enough force applied for that big of a reaction or even a throw to follow it and I watched it several times. Is Giku's knee in that much pain and Hakuho slapped it?

Thank you, I was thinking the same things. I'd like to know what Hakuho did to cause that reaction, because I can't see where he did anything in particular (including bending joints and appendages in the wrong directions). It was like Kotoshogiku suddenly decided to roll over for Hakuho - literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4TWjt1Y8ioY

If you have been a sumo watcher for even a short time have you ever seen a well executed uchimuso not work?

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Who can tell me when was the last time a Yokozuna was promoted without having won a single yusho, cause I keep reading those comments about how Kisenosato blew his yokozuna chance this basho. Is there a rule for consecutive jun-yusho that can lead to promotion?

Edited by botev1921

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Who can tell me when was the last time a Yokozuna was promoted without having won a single yusho, cause I keep reading those comments about how Kisenosato blew his yokozuna chance this basho. Is there a rule for consecutive jun-yusho that can lead to promotion?

It is not clear what exactly you are asking. "Promoted without having won a single yusho ever in his career" or "Promoted without having won a single yusho during his so called Yokozuna run".

In both cases however the answer is the promotion of Futahaguro in 1986 after 2 consecutive jun-yusho and no single Makuuchi yusho in his entire career. In fact he had only two yusho - one in Jonokuchi and one in Juryo.

Here is a query which might help.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&n_basho=4&form1_oy=on&form2_rank=O&form2_jy=on&form3_rank=O&form3_jy=on&form4_rank=Y

Perhaps it can be written better, but querying databases without typing raw SQL is not among my strengths.

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What the heck happened in today's Hakuho match? It looked like Hakuho just tickled the inside of Kotoshogiku's knee and he then threw himself to the ground. Is that some kind of knee jerk reaction (no pun intended) like when the doctor checks your reflexes by hitting you below the knee with the little hammer? I certainly couldn't see enough force applied for that big of a reaction or even a throw to follow it and I watched it several times. Is Giku's knee in that much pain and Hakuho slapped it?

Thank you, I was thinking the same things. I'd like to know what Hakuho did to cause that reaction, because I can't see where he did anything in particular (including bending joints and appendages in the wrong directions). It was like Kotoshogiku suddenly decided to roll over for Hakuho - literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4TWjt1Y8ioY

If you have been a sumo watcher for even a short time have you ever seen a well executed uchimuso not work?

I might have and not recognized it. I just couldn't understand the mechanics of it since I missed any force being applied on Hakuho's part. But I guess it was explained above that he let Giku's force do the work for him by moving aside. I wasn't trying to say that he threw the match for Hakuho but it seems like something from a manga or anime where the slightest touch to the knee provokes such an amazing effect.

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What the heck happened in today's Hakuho match? It looked like Hakuho just tickled the inside of Kotoshogiku's knee and he then threw himself to the ground. Is that some kind of knee jerk reaction (no pun intended) like when the doctor checks your reflexes by hitting you below the knee with the little hammer? I certainly couldn't see enough force applied for that big of a reaction or even a throw to follow it and I watched it several times. Is Giku's knee in that much pain and Hakuho slapped it?

Thank you, I was thinking the same things. I'd like to know what Hakuho did to cause that reaction, because I can't see where he did anything in particular (including bending joints and appendages in the wrong directions). It was like Kotoshogiku suddenly decided to roll over for Hakuho - literally!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4TWjt1Y8ioY

If you have been a sumo watcher for even a short time have you ever seen a well executed uchimuso not work?

I might have and not recognized it. I just couldn't understand the mechanics of it since I missed any force being applied on Hakuho's part. But I guess it was explained above that he let Giku's force do the work for him by moving aside. I wasn't trying to say that he threw the match for Hakuho but it seems like something from a manga or anime where the slightest touch to the knee provokes such an amazing effect.

It was aikido. He threw Kotoshogiku with his mind.

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What the heck happened in today's Hakuho match? It looked like Hakuho just tickled the inside of Kotoshogiku's knee and he then threw himself to the ground. Is that some kind of knee jerk reaction (no pun intended) like when the doctor checks your reflexes by hitting you below the knee with the little hammer? I certainly couldn't see enough force applied for that big of a reaction or even a throw to follow it and I watched it several times. Is Giku's knee in that much pain and Hakuho slapped it?

This is my favorite part, explaining mechanics of Hakuho or Harumafuji bouts.

As explained above, it is all Giku's own force. But Hakuho crafted this masterfully (well he is The master after all). This technique is commonly used in Mongolian wrestling. The wrestlers are opposing each other with lots of force, but at the same time watching, or feeling each other's move so carefully that any small movement will start their next round of attacks. It is extremely heightened situation. In a fleeting moment Hakuho makes such a slight movement as if he is beginning a big push. Giku's reflex responds even though his mind probably knew what Hakuho is up to. Giku's body stiffens and braces for Hakuho's push in a fleeting moment almost involuntarily by reflex. Now Giku lost his frontal footing, positioning his body in extreme angle, and his other leg is so far behind to counter Hakuho's push. It is time for Hakuho to tap that back leg even further while pulling Giku's upper body forward and down.

It is timing. If Hakuho missed Giku's reflex response then this would have been ineffective. Hakuho's preparation for this move is so subtle that we may not be able to see it from TV, but Giku probably felt stiffening of Hakuho's body in tenths of a second before realizing what it was.

In a way, Hakuho controlled Giku's reflex, true show of a master.

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What a tough day for Satoyama today:

at first it looked like he won his kachikoshi clinching bout against Takayasu.

Then a mono-ii was called, resulting in a hansoku loss as Satoyama pulled Takayasu's top knot.

This loss meant:

- no kachi-koshi

- no Technique Prize (Gino-sho)

- Juryo demotion very likely

My thought was: why pull hair when he was in a nice position to pull Takayasu's leg...

Well, well if it were that easy...

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not a single kensho for a koreyori sanyaku bout???

not much applause from the audience as well when the 3rd last bout was announced by the gyoji...

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