Another growing scandal-Kasugayama wants his kabu!

[Akinomaki 34,817]

On 16.1.2017 at 08:37, Akinomaki said:

The End: Kasugayama leaves the NSK, he couldn't agree on a pay-/settlement with the former - NHK just reported it.

On 16.1.2017 at 18:26, Akinomaki said:

The retirement has been accepted by the NSK

- but the appeal trial will still go on next month. Interview with now ex-Kasugayama:

The side of the now former-former hadn't agreed on less money for the certificate and announced: "We want to see how the NSK and Kasugayama-oyakata decide from now on."

The epilogue to the tragedy:

The trial ended with a settlement: the kabu is of no use anymore, so the now ex-Kasugayama dropped the demand to get it back and the former-former doesn't want the big sum of money anymore (but still has the certificate). http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2017022000652&g=soc

[Sakura 1,243]

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

The epilogue to the tragedy:

The trial ended with a settlement: the kabu is of no use anymore, so the now ex-Kasugayama dropped the demand to get it back and the former-former doesn't want the big sum of money anymore (but still has the certificate). http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2017022000652&g=soc

So, how is the NSK going to get the kabu then?

[Benihana 1,718]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

So, how is the NSK going to get the kabu then?

Kabunapping?

[Benevolance 2,265]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

So, how is the NSK going to get the kabu then?

 

<Insert Naruto joke here>

[Kuroyama 715]

2 hours ago, Benevolance said:

 

<Insert Naruto joke here>

You think they'll send in moto-Kotooshu after it?

[Gurowake 3,455]

6 hours ago, Sakura said:

So, how is the NSK going to get the kabu then?

My guess is declare the old one invalid and issue a new one.  Perhaps this would require everyone resubmitting them, and maybe cause a new round of drama as people fail to produce them!

[Benevolance 2,265]

3 hours ago, Kuroyama said:

You think they'll send in moto-Kotooshu after it?

Best ninja ever! The guy is so thin now, he could practically turn sideways and disappear.

[Kuroyama 715]

55 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

Best ninja ever! The guy is so thin now, he could practically turn sideways and disappear.

If he can actually do sexy-no-jutsu, I'm buying me one of those headbands...

[Bumpkin 438]

So, in other words, they both lost.

[Raishu 193]

8 hours ago, Gurowake said:

My guess is declare the old one invalid and issue a new one.  Perhaps this would require everyone resubmitting them, and maybe cause a new round of drama as people fail to produce them!

Tough spot. Declaring the old one invalid might cause another court case, since the former-former Kasugayama had to pay for his share after all.

In my personal opinion, it will be the easiest path to just sell the kabu to the highest bidding interested party (like many others did before). Without being affiliated to any ichimon now, ex-Kasugafuji won't have to fear any political pressure from the group his stable belonged to, so he can offer it to more or less any person, who is in need for a share. The buyer can submit the certificate to the NSK (IIRC, everyone had to do this - which, amongst others, was the reason for ex-Takanotsuru to switch from Naruto to Tagonoura) and pick up his post once he retires (unless a loaning oyakata ends up with it).

Whoever is controlling the Kumagatani-name at the moment should have an interest to get some money out of it, too ...

[Akinomaki 34,817]

9 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

So, in other words, they both lost.

I think ex-Kasugafuji accomplished his goal of causing as much damage as possible.

18 hours ago, Sakura said:

So, how is the NSK going to get the kabu then?

11 hours ago, Gurowake said:

My guess is declare the old one invalid and issue a new one.

2 hours ago, Raishu said:

Tough spot. Declaring the old one invalid might cause another court case, since the former-former Kasugayama had to pay for his share after all.

In my personal opinion, it will be the easiest path to just sell the kabu to the highest bidding interested party (like many others did before).

There is a time limit now for how long after leaving the NSK the former oyakata or his family can hold on to a kabu, but I don't know the details and if it applies to this case: ex-Kasugafuji doesn't officially own the myoseki, just the certificate. We will have to wait and see what happens.

No-one in need of a kabu is allowed to pay ex-Kasugafuji for the certificate - permitted is only to pay him to be a consultant - plenty of room for creative contract making.

And for ex-Hamanishiki that is a hope as well: he officially owns the myoseki.

He has no work for now and would like to do something connected to sumo http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170220/sum17022012440001-n1.html

Edited February 21, 2017 by Akinomaki

[PawnSums 59]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

I think ex-Kasugafuji accomplished his goal of causing as much damage as possible.

There is a time limit now for how long after leaving the NSK the former oyakata or his family can hold on to a kabu, but I don't know the details and if it applies to this case: ex-Kasugafuji doesn't officially own the myoseki, just the certificate. We will have to wait and see what happens.

No-one in need of a kabu is allowed to pay ex-Kasugafuji for the certificate - permitted is only to pay him to be a consultant - plenty of room for creative contract making.

And for ex-Hamanishiki that is a hope as well: he officially owns the myoseki.

He has no work for now and would like to do something connected to sumo http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170220/sum17022012440001-n1.html

I probably sound like an idiot, but what is a myoseki?

Edited February 21, 2017 by PawnSums

[Ryoshishokunin 210]

35 minutes ago, PawnSums said:

I probably sound like an idiot, but what is a myoseki?

The Names available to Oyakata are the myoseki, each one associated with a kabu, or share, in the NSK.  

[PawnSums 59]

Just now, Ryoshishokunin said:

The Names available to Oyakata are the myoseki, each one associated with a kabu, or share, in the NSK.  

I thought I knew that, just wanted to be sure.

[ryafuji 758]

7 hours ago, Raishu said:

Whoever is controlling the Kumagatani-name at the moment should have an interest to get some money out of it, too ...

That's still ex-Kanechika, isn't it? They may have kicked him out of sumo but he still technically owns the kabu.

[Raishu 193]

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

There is a time limit now for how long after leaving the NSK the former oyakata or his family can hold on to a kabu, but I don't know the details and if it applies to this case: ex-Kasugafuji doesn't officially own the myoseki, just the certificate. We will have to wait and see what happens.

Time limit was 3 years (maybe still is?) when I checked it ages ago. I dunno whether this was changed in the meantime, neither do I have a reliable source for that.

You are right about the myoseki. I forgot about that.

Quote

No-one in need of a kabu is allowed to pay ex-Kasugafuji for the certificate - permitted is only to pay him to be a consultant - plenty of room for creative contract making.

That's true. But I think we can imagine some hidden private agreements where the buyer pays a proper rate to the former owner without informing the NSK. At least, that's the way I could figure it out for myself. I guess the same routine applies to the loaning arrangements between owner and user ("I'll let you use my myoseki/kabu if you pay me X% of your monthly income ...").

Edited February 21, 2017 by Raishu

[Raishu 193]

12 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

That's still ex-Kanechika, isn't it? They may have kicked him out of sumo but he still technically owns the kabu.

Could be. But let's not forget about how he became oyakata in first place. Maybe the heirs of the Hirokawa estate still have their hands in play (who knows what kind of private agreements these parties have made in the past - although there might be doubts whether these are of legal relevance)?

[Asashosakari 16,827]

6 hours ago, Raishu said:

Time limit was 3 years (maybe still is?) when I checked it ages ago. I dunno whether this was changed in the meantime, neither do I have a reliable source for that.

I could be wrong, but I do think it's still the same three-year time limit. As for which ex-Kasugayama this time limit now applies to, if any...  I think the most likely outcome is simply that the Kyokai quietly pays off ex-Kasugafuji for the certificate (they could just make a new one, but you don't want the other one still floating around), while ex-Hamanishiki's "ownership" of the myoseki just gets revoked because he's no longer a Kyokai member now and can't actually prove his claim to the share.
 

6 hours ago, Raishu said:

That's true. But I think we can imagine some hidden private agreements where the buyer pays a proper rate to the former owner without informing the NSK. At least, that's the way I could figure it out for myself. I guess the same routine applies to the loaning arrangements between owner and user ("I'll let you use my myoseki/kabu if you pay me X% of your monthly income ...").

I have little doubt that that is still going on, but technically it's forbidden now. Of course, it's anybody's guess whether the Kyokai will actually hand out punishments as promised when (not if) they catch an offender...
 

14 hours ago, Raishu said:

Whoever is controlling the Kumagatani-name at the moment should have an interest to get some money out of it, too ...

I imagine everybody's hoping that Ishiura can make a sanyaku appearance within the next year and a half so that they can just shuffle off the share to him, regardless of who would actually be paying for it (probably Hakuho). Absent Mongolians naturalizing, Isegahama-ichimon is very short on credible oyakata candidates at the moment...basically just Takarafuji. Some other guys such as Homarefuji and Asahisho do have the basho numbers as well, but might well be too inconsequential to fit into the ichimon's kabu plans.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Asashosakari

[Hakuhonofan 326]

What a shame it has to end this way. 

[Muhomatsu 136]

The Japanese wikipedia page (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/中川部屋) claims that Nakagawa-beya is in the Tokitsukaze ichimon.

[Kintamayama 40,632]

Ex-Kasugafuji has died today. Cause of death not given. Former Kasugayama Oyakata who was involved in this long row dies at 51 today, just weeks after they reached an agreement.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Kintamayama

[rhyen 1,584]

*facedesk*

Edited March 11, 2017 by rhyen

[Fukurou 534]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Ex-Kasugafuji has died today. Cause of death not given. Former Kasugayama Oyakata who was involved in this long row dies at 51 today, just weeks after they reached an agreement.

Not to be disrespectful, but that entire thing was enough to kill anyone.

[Rocks 1,725]

6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Ex-Kasugafuji has died today. Cause of death not given. Former Kasugayama Oyakata who was involved in this long row dies at 51 today, just weeks after they reached an agreement.

Wow, may he RIP.