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Akinomaki

Another growing scandal-Kasugayama wants his kabu!

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22 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Now 11 of the 23 rikishi of Kasugayama-beya have also started a petition to reverse the riji-kai decision and 2 held a press conference to express their protest, heya top Mizuguchi and Mankajo: "We want to continue to do sumo in these surroundings." "I don't know of anyone from the NSK coming to the heya to investigate (during the Aki basho). They should ask all of us."

a news video with several scenes from the press conference of the 2

 

Edited by Akinomaki

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Mizuguchi and 11 others (=the 11 who signed the petition plus one other) handed their retirement papers to the kyokai. The other rikishi moved their belongings to the old Kasugayama-beya in Kawasaki, which belongs to the former Kasugayama, who in effect now caused the destruction of Kasugayama-beya. And as Oitekaze-beya representative, Nakagawa-oyakata (Asahisato) will guide the rikishi there. Oitekaze-beya really has not enough space. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20161019/sum16101918410002-n1.html

Oitekaze-oyakata hopes the heya can be revived till the next Haru basho. http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2016101900746&g=spo

P2016101902415_miu_kasugabeya-w200_0.jpgo kasuga-n-bt-161019004-w200_0.jpgo

with "don't worry, we'll manage somehow " on the t-shirt

Edited by Akinomaki
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Will they accept the intai papers of "They Were 11"? If so, I'd say this should be upgraded from a mini-scandal. A right proper scandal now.

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Assuming there's a chance this could turn out to be a temporary measure like the Kise-beya shutdown, then retiring looks like a very rash decision. And I certainly hope that moto-Hamanishiki will try to dissuade them from it, because nobody wins if they do quit - at the very least it would reduce the pressure on the Kyokai to allow the heya to re-establish if most of the guys who are interested in that re-establishing are gone. (Not to mention that I'm seriously not a fan of superiors allowing their charges to fall on their swords out of loyalty, but that's probably a Western-biased view...)

Considering the previous Kasugayama was forced to leave the Kyokai over financial irregularities in his own mini-scandal (at least that was the official story, I'd hate to think the reality might have been something worse), I'm always a bit surprised that the board of directors hasn't made any attempt to side with the current Kasugayama in his kabu issues.

Edited by Asashosakari

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1 hour ago, Harry said:

I'd say this should be upgraded from a mini-scandal. A right proper scandal now.

Another of these threads that are mine, though I neither started nor named it, so I never thought about changing it - upgraded.

I'd really like to know who wants to pay that horrendous rent to the former Kasugayama, with which he drove out the heya and ripped off the present Kasugayama already at the other trial - instead of using the present heya for free.

Edited by Akinomaki
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5 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Considering the previous Kasugayama was forced to leave the Kyokai over financial irregularities in his own mini-scandal (at least that was the official story, I'd hate to think the reality might have been something worse), I'm always a bit surprised that the board of directors hasn't made any attempt to side with the current Kasugayama in his kabu issues.

I am also confused by this. Was the failure to get the kabu so egregious that they shut down all support? Or is this a ploy so that they can leverage some power against some other heya? 

What happens to the kabu now? Does it become defunct? Can the Kyokai now assume ownership of it somehow?

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In order to be a stable master, do you have to own a kabu?  Can Kasugayama buy a kabu and reopen a stable?

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19 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Assuming there's a chance this could turn out to be a temporary measure like the Kise-beya shutdown, then retiring looks like a very rash decision. And I certainly hope that moto-Hamanishiki will try to dissuade them from it, because nobody wins if they do quit

 Kasugayama had asked Hakkaku to postpone his stepping down as shisho till the rikishi's intai procedures are concluded, but his request was rejected. The retirement papers of the 12 have been accepted by the NSK, they are officially retired now, an unprecedented mass intai in one heya. The heya might be revived with Nakagawa as new shisho after the Hatsu basho.http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20161020/sum16102005020002-n1.html

8 (of 19 in Kawasaki - 4 are at the jungyo) rikishi were present as Oitekaze-oyakata came to talk to them and other heya members in Kawasaki. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20161020-OHT1T50014.html

The extra one to resign likely is one of the 4 at the jungyo - but the other 3 may think about intai as well

Edited by Akinomaki
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14 hours ago, Sakura said:

I am also confused by this. Was the failure to get the kabu so egregious that they shut down all support? Or is this a ploy so that they can leverage some power against some other heya? 

What happens to the kabu now? Does it become defunct? Can the Kyokai now assume ownership of it somehow?

I'm getting more and more confused as well. Shisho without certificate is equaled to "driving without license" by PR top Kasugano. The problem is that he lost at court - the kyokai waited for that long to punish him. I rather thought he'd get thrown out completely, but they are demolishing him one by one.

On 10.11.2013 at 10:50, Akinomaki said:

The Kasugayama myoseki certificate had been reissued once in May at the request of the present oyakata who cited that the former refused to hand it over. But in July this was revoked, the original became valid again.


If the oyakata can't present the kabu till Dec. 20th he will get into trouble with the NSK – up to losing his status as oyakata in the new NSK public interest corporation. Kitanoumi: “It won't be reissued, because it's not lost.”


The former had left the NSK after talk of irregularities in accounting and an affair with a female staff member of the kyokai in Sept. last year.

On 2.8.2016 at 12:31, Akinomaki said:

The court ruled that Kasugayama has to pay 171.6 million yen to the former to get his kabu certificate (payment is forbidden now by the NSK).

Apparently they won't reissue the certificate and as long as the present Kasugayama is in the kyokai, won't help with retrieving it from the former.

After he's forced to leave, they can get it from the former, who as an outsider isn't allowed to hold onto it indefinitely. But the name may have to stay dormant till then. No-one will change myoseki with Kasugayama without that certificate. Kasugayama can't buy a kabu - buying is illegal now - and apparently has no money to pay for his own kabu. Should he pay, he'd be violating kyokai rules and might get kicked out as well.

 

Edited by Akinomaki

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5 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

After he's forced to leave, they can get it from the former, who as an outsider isn't allowed to hold onto it indefinitely. But the name may have to stay dormant till then. No-one will change myoseki with Kasugayama without that certificate. Kasugayama can't buy a kabu - buying is illegal now - and apparently has no money to pay for his own kabu. Should he pay, he'd be violating kyokai rules and might get kicked out as well.

Or rather, buying kabu is "illegal" now, wink wink nudge nudge. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of why the Kyokai has refused to get involved on current-Kasugayama's side - this lawsuit dates back to the old kabu rules, and I can't imagine the Kyokai wants to draw public attention to the fact that their new "transparent" rules are just as messy and intransparent as the old ones were.

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Apparently the NSK top after all cares a tiny bit about becoming that extremely unpopular and looks for excuses: Kasugano PR top announced that the NSK wanted to explain it all to each of the 12 rikishi before accepting the retirements, but could not reach anybody today.

"There are some who haven't understood the case" and some even think the oyakata has been expelled from the kyokai (already). "I don't want them to cut the hair prematurely."

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASJBN630QJBNUTQP03J.html

The heya koenkai top indicated that more retirements are to be expected (maybe among the 4 who are at the jungyo and hadn't talked to Oitekaze).

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2016/10/20/kiji/K20161020013570990.html

 

Edited by Akinomaki
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The "new" Oitekaze subbranch Kasugayama-beya started operation today at the old Kasugayama-beya location by cleaning the old place and with preparations to move to Kyushu: with just 6 rikishi - 2 more have gone to the jungyo as tsukebito of Hakuho, who joined the jungyo today in Kyoto. Coach Nakagawa first of all wants to give the rikishi emotional support and will stay there together with the rikishi. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20161020-OHT1T50208.html

So it already is like the future heya from the start - why didn't they just swap shisho at once and have the heya go on like before?

The heya will stay at the same location for Kyushu as each year since 2012, the Saga shrine in Saga city (apparently also for that prefecture they were the only heya - with lodgings there), but as Oitekaze-beya II - so the announcements, the letter of invitation etc. had to be changed in a hurry - and Oitekaze-beya nobori have to be obtained. Of course also the Oitekaze Fukuoka location wasn't prepared for that may additional persons. http://www.nishinippon.co.jp/nnp/saga/article/283059

Kasugayama-oyakata apparently has been exiled - no word about where he's gone

Edited by Akinomaki
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34 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

So it already is like the future heya from the start - why didn't they just swap shisho at once and have the heya go on like before?

Not really the same thing, unless Nakagawa actually wants to own a stable himself. Right now he's just managing one.

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19 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

that was indicated already

For now, that might be little more than a case of whistling past the graveyard, considering it apparently comes from people connected to Kasugayama-beya, not people connected to Oitekaze or Nakagawa himself. As far as I can tell that article says nothing about whether Nakagawa actually wants to do it.

Not to mention that Nakagawa isn't even eligible to create a heya. Are they just going to overlook that and treat it as him "inheriting" the defunct stable? That would be rather suspect, considering a dodgy heya inheritance is partly at fault for the mess they're in right now.

Edited by Asashosakari

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27 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

that was indicated already

 

Well, despite Nakagawa, who else could be an option (I assume, they try to solve this within the borders of their ichimon):

Kiriyama (consultant) is not allowed to.

Takashima (mismanaged his own) probably should not.

Tamagaki will take over Tomozuna (most likely).

Oshima is inexperienced as a freshly retiree (and maybe intending to revive Oshima stable).

The remaining oyakata already serve as shisho.

Unless they intend to install an oyakata from another ichimon, it pretty much looks like Nakagawa is the horse to bet on.

 

EDIT: The new multiquote option does not seem to work or I screwed up. Asashosakari's part is missing.

Edited by Raishu
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27 minutes ago, Raishu said:

Well, despite Nakagawa, who else could be an option (I assume, they try to solve this within the borders of their ichimon):

Leave it to Aminishiki then...;-) Seriously though - yes, that lack of other candidates is another reason why any comment along the lines of "Nakagawa might do it" is pretty meaningless if it comes from people who aren't Nakagawa himself. What else could they say if they want to reassure people that Kasugayama-beya isn't fully dead now?

IMHO, unless Hamanishiki manages to clear up his issues and gets reinstated, we've likely seen the last of the entity known as Kasugayama-beya.

Edited by Asashosakari
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11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

IMHO, unless Hamanishiki manages to clear up his issues and gets reinstated, we've likely seen the last of the entity known as Kasugayama-beya.

i am lost concerning the original topic

can someone of the educated here write a short summary what is the situation at the moment,  pls

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moto-Hamanishiki, for whatever reason, let the previous Kasugayama (moto-Kasugafuji) have the physical Kabu certificate for 'safekeeping'.  They then had a falling out, and two court cases later it's gotten worse.  As a result of the first case Kasugayama-beya moved to new premises, still in Kawasaki.  The courts have recently ruled in the second case that Hamanishiki owes Kasugafuji 175M¥ for the certificate, if not the rights to the name itself.

As a result, the kyokai has shut down Kasugayama-beya.  Hamanishiki has resigned as shisho, and most of the rikishi have gone intai.  The remaining rikishi are nominally part of Oitekaze-beya for now, but there is not room for them in the premises of that stable, so they're being kept  in the old Kasugayama location: it's not clear who's paying the rent and how that arrangement works.  (Remember that Kasugafuji has left the kyokai as of 2012.  )  Nakagawa-oyakata is 'looking after' the rikishi for now.  

 

Clear as mud?

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The (newly updated) forum editor just swallowed a long and detailed post as I sent it, without trace or any autosaved remains.

Let's see if I can get a shorter version together again - and without the multi-quotes.

The press now gets more precise: Kasugano yesterday made clear (or not) that the retirement papers of the 12 have NOT been accepted yesterday, unlike first reports - and the impression of a mere excuse later. "We want to explain it to them as soon as possible" and only if they still want to retire after that accept the intai papers. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2016/10/21/kiji/K20161021013572810.html

Meanwhile the retired (or not) rikishi made plans for a mass-danpatsu-shiki. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20161021-OHT1T50066.html

 

more related scandal recaps in other threads:

the former Kasugayama stepped down as shisho because he was newly elected riiji, a career jump after a temporary oyakata demotion as his rikishi were involved in the yaocho scandal: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/29282-kasugayama-oyakata-steps-down-new-oyakata-steps-in/

Later that year he retires from the kyokai: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/30355-new-scandal-kyokai-member-in-adulterous-affair/

Edit: now I get: The link could not be embedded because of an unexpected error: OK: .      from the (new) editor, but the link is OK nonetheless

Edited by Akinomaki
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The koenkai of Kasugayama-beya (338 members) will not support the heya any longer with another shisho. The koenkai gave a comment to all press companies, explaining:

That the NSK ignored the petitions to keep Kasugayama as shisho, the main signed by about 2800 people from 17 organizations - and in addition from the mayor of Kawasaki and all kind of associations and companies - "is very regrettable". " We are drawn to the heya by the sincere character of the present oyakata and supported it based on a firm relation of mutual trust" and won't do that with anybody else.

http://www.kanaloco.jp/article/207264

Edited by Akinomaki
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One wonders why all those people didn't try to put public pressure on the former Kasugayama instead, back when it still might have mattered... Shooting the messenger (the Kyokai) seems pretty pointless when the real conflict exists between other parties.

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Seems to me it would've been quite easy for the kyokai to maintain the reissued myoseki and let current Kasugayama continue in the new location. Instead they chose to chase him into a corner. 

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2 hours ago, dingo said:

Seems to me it would've been quite easy for the kyokai to maintain the reissued myoseki and let current Kasugayama continue in the new location. Instead they chose to chase him into a corner. 

That's the nucular nuclear option though, and would quite likely get the Kyokai sued by the previous Kasugayama, too.

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