No Smoking in Masu seki?

[Kintamayama 44,646]

The smoking problem that was discussed on forum a while ago has resurfaced within the Kyokai at its Rijikai meeting a few days ago. Smoking is currently prohibited around the dohyo and in the nose bleed seats, but is allowed in the masu seats, where you sit in a box amidst food and drink and put your feet up (if you're small enough, since 4 people are supposed to fit in one of these..) and light up, if that's your choice. Lately, fans ,citizen groups and people within the Kyokai have been complaining about this, and are pushing to limit smoking to special enclosed areas (Nicoterias, as I call them..) . The new "system" may be tried out as early as Nagoya. "Nothing concrete has been decided yet. We will discuss the whole "smoking" situation with the NSK, and at the same time, we will have to listen to what the fans say as well", said the Senior Executive Manager of the sports section at Chunichi Shinbun, one of the co-sponsors of the Nagoya Basho.

Edited June 2, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

That would be great! It really stinks at the tourneys. The haze at a honbasho slowly builds from the morning matches to the makuuchi in the afternoon. By the time the sanyaku bouts are on, the whole place is "hotboxed". Too bad it's just nicotine... (Laughing...)

Edited June 3, 2004 by Otokonoyama

[Kintamayama 44,646]

The Kyokai has issued a formal call today to masu-seki users to refrain from smoking . They will not go as far as removing the ashtrays from masu-sekis just yet, but will use public announcements and flyers to ask for smokers' "cooperation". Additionally,special areas will be designated for smoking purposes. Ooshima Oyakata, director of the Nagoya basho:" Times are changing, and we will be asking for our customers' co-operation. There are also many children attending, so we have to take that into consideration as well. Our goal is a complete ban on smoking in the venue in the near future. I think by next year or the year after, this will be implemented". This refers to Nagoya* only for the moment, and there are no plans for similar "trials" at the other venues.

*The Aiichi Prefectural Gymnasium where the Nagoya basho is held annualy is a No-smoking venue, except for certain sports events.

Edited June 3, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Mark Buckton 1]

The Kyokai has issued a formal call today to masu-seki users to refrain from smoking . They will not go as far as removing the ashtrays from masu-sekis just yet, but will use public announcements and flyers to ask for smokers' "cooperation". Additionally,special areas will be designated for smoking purposes. Ooshima Oyakata, director of the Nagoya basho:" Times are changing, and we will be asking for our customers' co-operation. There are also many children attending, so we have to take that into consideration as well. Our goal is a complete ban on smoking in the venue in the near future. I think by next year or the year after, this will be implemented". This refers to Nagoya* only for the moment, and there are no plans for similar "trials" at the other venues.

*The Aiichi Prefectural Gymnasium where the Nagoya basho is held annualy is a No-smoking venue, except for certain sports events.

Kinta-san,

appreciate the post - got to say though that there is more chance of George W becoming the world's most popular idiot than there is on 'cooperation' being achieved from your average Taro-cum-fag-sucker Sato out there.

Any forign resident of Japan reading this will back me up in that Japanese can smoke under no smoking signs and ignore &$#! going on right under their noses and think that if it doesn't affect them it isn't happening - ostrich mentality in regards to problems approaching and this means people raaaaarely talk to offenders and if they do are largely ignored - not good old ANR - they stop, butt it out, drop it, get told to pick it up and put it in their pocket before being sent on their way like the pricks they are.

There are smoking restrictions in carious areas of life now - purely cosmetic and until the officials grow a set of balls and make it a law nothing will changes. This nation is still in the 1960s as far as smoking related education and the stamping out of sexism goes.

Example - near me there was a 'law' introduced for dropping litter with the penalty being 20,000 yen (2001). To date, not one person has been punished because no one checks on offenders and to avoid spoiling the harmony the local govt staff 'must' voluntarily (only in Japan) pick up litter on Friday afternoons thus preetending the problem isn't that bad after all. I have served on advisory committees at local govt level and when I raised the topic got lots of teeth sucking and shrugging shoulders.

Rant over.

[Kintamayama 44,646]

Well, the smoke is clearing around this story now.. The owners of the Aiichi Prefectural Gymnasium had issued an oral request to the Kyokai these last few years asking to ban smoking. It appears Sumo is the ONLY sport whose spectators are allowed to smoke at this venue. This year, the request turned into a written demand. Kitanoumi Rijichou:" If the owner of the establishment demands this, we will have to look at it favourably". At least one paper is saying that a total ban on smoking will indeed be in effect this coming Nagoya.

Regarding the Kkan, since it is run by the NSK, they have decided to "further examine this issue before making a decision". The owners of the hall in Osaka have been issuing oral requests in recent years as well. The Fukuoka guys say they will wait and see what happens, and follow the rest.

I tend to agree with Adachi's view that this will be really difficult to implement. During these difficult days for Sumo when the NSK is doing all it can to bring people back into the stadiums, this could be a shot in their own leg, as it were.

Edited June 3, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Mark Buckton 1]

As with many aspects of change in Japan you have to let the person changing believe it is their idea and that they came up with it first.

That way, it may happen - and if it doesn't - you kick em in the nether regions and get it done anyway - bang goes the 'wa'

So, what at first appeared as an NSK idea - gone slow id being given that kick by media exposure - Good on Aichi and Osaka - Fukuoka - standard weak kneed response from followers not leaders.

Let's consider whether we should study a suggested provisional amendment - to be implemented on a temporary basis only now - J political speak.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

ANR - right on all points (Shaking head...)

I see people smoking right under signs forbidding it at the airport, point it out to them, they pretend they didn't notice, walk maybe 2 feet, and keep right on smoking... (Sign of disapproval)

The government here owns roughly 70% of Japan Tabacco (JT). They (either the gov't or company; they are one and the same) regularly issue *studies* refuting finds by Western scientists that nicotine is addictive, and chemicals in cigarettes and second-hand smoke are harmful :-O !

[Kintamayama 44,646]

Latest: In Nagoya, patrons will be asked and urged not to smoke, but there will not be an official ban. Ashtrays will stay in the masu-seki. Reason given- "Tickets have already gone on sale, and it is reasonable that many smokers have already purchased tickets as usual. A change of policy now will bring with it demands for refunds, which we wish to avoid", said a spokesman for Chunichi Shinbun Sports department, one of the co-sponsors of Nagoya. There will be special designated areas for smokers, with announcements urging the smokers to use them. It seems that everything is geared towards a total ban come next Nagoya basho.

Edited June 4, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Ryunokaze 0]

The first time I came to Japan,not to long ago,in '98,people would smoke in cafes and resturants but on the streets it was a no-no.I was suprised to see people using personal ashtrays and sitting down when smoking.In the short space of time,from then to now,Tokyo has become an ashtray.Butts everywhere and poeple lighting-up any place they please,barring in the trains and office.Every other place is fair game.

I am not a smoker and dislike heavily affected places but I have not found the Kokugikan to be to bad.

Man,if they banned drinking beer,I would have a strong opinion...

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

A smoking ban (or other change in policy) cannot be implemented from one basho to another. It will have to be done with enough advance notice to ensure everyone has a chance to consider it when buying tickets.

Whether the ban will be obeyed or not is a different matter altogether, as is the issue of enforcement. The important thing is to set the process in place, get the wheels rolling: first just encourage people not do to it, then making it official policy. Small steps...

[Iwagakki 0]

Coming from a sometime smoker....

Way to impose your ideals on the 100 million people in Japan who smoke.

Everyone on the planet is aware of the hazards of smoking, and yet many many people choose to smoke. And don't give me any of that "but the tobacco companies make an addictive product..." business, or any of that junk about how "the tobacco companies have lied and cheated and tricked people into smoking" either. I started smoking a long time ago, quit for a few years and recently DECIDED to start again. Just to be an ass, I suppose.

The point is, nobody is totally uninformed about the hazards of smoking. That said....

I think it is arrogant, absurd, and annoying for people to expect that smoking be banned from any public area for their own comfort, health and/or wayward ideals, particularly since smoking is not illegal. In the America I grew up in, (at least the one I thought it was the America I grew up in) if you didn't like to be around people who smoked, you didn't go where they were, and then bitch about it, you just didn't go there. It was up to you.

And your preference was valid, but so were the other people's. Nowadays, it is perfectly acceptable go into a "smoking club" and complain about the smoke. It is perfectly acceptable to go into a bar, where people generally go to smoke and drink, and hang out with other people who drink and smoke, and complain about the smoke, and the drunks.

In many states in the US there is a movement on to ban smoking in the workplace. Sounds reasonable, in a way. but think about it. in a bar, don't people smoke? that's a workplace. So now there's no smoking there. what next? no smoking in casinos?

This new angle "it's for the health and safety of the workers" is silly. Do you honestly expect me to believe that every worker in the bar and club industry is so completely unintelligent and incompetent that they don't realize that people smoke there? And that they need to be protected from the folly of their own decisions? Get real.

Anyway, smoking isn't illegal. I agree that it isn't the healthiest habit in the world.

But that still doesn't make it ILLEGAL. Alcohol is bad for you too. But it isn't ILLEGAL. Used to be, but it isn't.

If you don't like cigarette smoke, then don't go around people who smoke. If you don't like that I smoke, then go away. Don't give me any of this crap about lung cancer, or that I am infringing on your God Given Right to Clean Air, or your Constitutional Right to Not Breath Smoke (I think that was the 234th Amendment) Just go somewhere where I am not.

I can get lung cancer if I want to. I can take 7 minutes off my life with each cigarette if I want to. I can be a statistic if I want to. I can stink like tobacco if I want to. It's not against the law. Yet.

I don't try to regulate your decisions, but where do you get the overwhelming gall to regulate mine? Even if they are for my own good. It's my decision, not yours. I will not blow smoke in your face, If you don't blow smoke up my ass. I'm sorry that you don't want to look at me smoking, or breath my secondhand smoke. But why can't I smoke, even when your not there?

I just saw an Anti smoking ad on TV. I bet it cost half a million bucks to produce and run. A half a million bucks would feed and clothe a whole lot of people who don't have a choice but to be cold and hungry.

I have a choice, for now. So go spend your money on something that counts. Oh, that's right, then you wouldn't be riding your high horse, telling people how wrong and foolish, and unhealthy, and how rude, and how disgusting they are being.

oh, how silly of me...

I am going to go smoke a cigarette and casually blow it in the direction of all the non-smokers of the world.

[Asashosakari 18,968]

I'm a pretty insistent non-smoker but I find myself agreeing with much of what Iwagakki-san has written about the current wave of 'ban smoking, anywhere' legislation. It has been rather excessive IMO as well, particularly in places that are and always have been associated with casual smoking, like bars (as mentioned). Any bigger town should have a number of bars, and even absent non-smoking regulation, common sense indicates that there'd be at least one that'll cater to non-smokers if they feel so disturbed by the smoke elsewhere.

Likewise, people smoking at work doesn't bother me too much, provided that the space isn't too cramped so people who don't want to aren't forced to stand in a cloud of smoke all the time.

Nevertheless, I think all that misses the point a bit as far as sumo is concerned. Where else are non-smokers supposed to go to watch pro sumo live? The "plenty of bars around" argument doesn't work for singular events like sports competitions, or concerts.

And I don't think the "casual smoking" argument would apply, either. A case can probably be made that some activities are part of the, umm, atmosphere (for lack of a better word) of other activities...say, drinking beer while attending football matches.

I think it'll be hard to argue that smoking is part of the expected atmosphere of watching a sumo tournament, though. People there smoke because they'd smoke anywhere else, too, not because it's an intrinsic part of experiencing sumo. (Evidence to the contrary is welcome, of course.) Given that non-smokers at such a place don't exactly have an alternative venue to visit, I can't say I'd be too distressed to see smoking banned during sumo.

(By the same token, I'm not too troubled by smoking bans on airline flights. Frankly, people who can't go a few hours without a cigarette there have bigger problems than too-extensive smoking bans.)

[Mark Buckton 1]

(Struck by lightning...)

Had a tough day Iwagakki?

Irrespective of your thoughts - the 'standard' defence of smoking in public areas, the FACT is, smokers are losing. (Struck by lightning...)

Slowly the world is improving itself as far as health of the general populace goes in this regard and fewer places are being opened for cancer to spread freely to non-smoking babies, children, the elderly, the infirm and those who just choose not to smoke.

The WHO claims someone dies of a smoking related disease every 6 seconds and I won't even go down the avenue of them not all being smokers bar to say some are lifelong non-smokers.

Whether intentional or not on the part of the smokers - it happens. Non-smokers die daily having spent years living with a smoker.

But to look at your reference to smoking at basho - although Japan is very slow in changing its attitudes in this regard it is changing, one of your last bastions of phlegm and nicotine is being dismantled

So, that in mind I look forward to seeing you at basho before 'the end' - presume you wouldn't mind me sat next to yourself, sneezing and coughing openly(no tissues or masks), sniffling with a runny nose (and letting it run) and farting the whole day through - the kind that burns the skin.

All the while rip-roaring drunk and unintentionally annoying the hell out of those around me by shouting, stumbling about and hugging all and sundry.

Iwagakki - it isn't about legality and illegality (that is always used as the last refuge of those in a weak defensive position)

It is about manners.

It's ALL about manners at public gatherings and what goes around comes around. (Struck by lightning...) I never do what I referred to above without protecting others from my sneeze, my cough or my runny nose.

Pity you and the other fag suckers don't feel the same but in the end, matters not -as I said - tis the non-smokers who ARE winning the global battle

ANR (Struck by lightning...)

PS - "Way to impose your ideals on the 100 million people in Japan who smoke." (Clapping wildly...)

Either a typo, a lack of knowledge (do you think 100 of 127 mil smoke - duh!) or an attempt to exaggerate the figures and appear to be going with the group.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

ANR: Hear hear!

As usual, a well thought out reply...

Besides, it's not as if they are banning smoking. As originally posted by others, there will be smoking areas where people can go should they feel the need. This is already the case at other sporting events in Japan, like baseball. The conservative old farts in Nagoya who wanna watch their beloved Dragons beat up on the Yomiuri Giants have to go to designated areas in the concourse for their fix.

[Zuikakuyama 1]

ANR, your post contains numerous logical fallacies which I feel compelled to point out.

You talk about manners. Well, that is not the point, is it? We are talking about making laws or rules that bans a certain undesired behavior (or bad manners, as you put it). So are you saying that it is OK for government or various organizations to introduce bans against bad manners? What is next? Makes laws or rules requiring people to say

[Naganoyama 5,881]

As far as I know, the NSK do not receive any public funding. So the government should not be even involved.

I don't know whether Japan has a National Health Service, but governments which spend money on health often do get involved in such issues if they are perceived to affect the public purse. (In the UK, smoking is gradually being banned in many places as a measure to reduce lung cancer due to passive smoking. Whether the government is right or wrong in linking passive smoking to lung cancer I have no idea.)

[Zuikakuyama 1]

(In the UK, smoking is gradually being banned in many places as a measure to reduce lung cancer due to passive smoking. Whether the government is right or wrong in linking passive smoking to lung cancer I have no idea.)

Absolutely right.

The smoking ban campaigners are always harping on how dangerous smoking is and how much deaths are caused by it. Just look at the 1 death per 6 second assertion made.

That statistic is totally beside the point in terms of banning smoking in public places. That kind of statistics speaks of the risk to the smoker himself.

What is relevant is how many deaths are caused by CASUAL, SECOND-HAND smoke. Has anyone ever done an authoritative study on that?

All of the second-hand study I saw are of PERSISTENT second-hand smoke exposure (spouses, constant work environment exposure like airline stewardesses). How how many people actually die from a couple of minutes of causal exposure each day?

It just shows you how statistics can be made to tell lies.

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

As far as I know, the NSK do not receive any public funding. So the government should not be even involved.

Really? Are you sure? Anyway, public funding aside, the NSK even is directly a part of some ministry, so I guess the connection of the NSK to the government is a lot deeper than you ever imagined. So you might reconsider your line of argument...

[Mark Buckton 1]

As far as I know, the NSK do not receive any public funding. So the government should not be even involved.

Z-san,

sorry to hit you with this but the above quote is a total, utter and second to none indication that you have no idea at all what happens in Japanese public and even private life. :-(

The govt is involved in everything. That is of huge importance herein which I ask you to bear in mind as to go further is to play on an uneven playing surface.

I will thus but say - in your second paragraph you write:

""Well, that is not the point, is it? We are talking about making laws or rules that bans a certain undesired behavior (or bad manners, as you put it). So are you saying that it is OK for government or various organizations to introduce bans against bad manners? ""

Hello? What are you talking about? Read my initial piece again and see I focus on 'self-control / manners from within' as the ideal rather than introducing laws. My reference to the laws being used and battles won is as regards the laws introduced by others that I / we benefit from - I suggested none did I?

Lawspeak is your intro here and a twisted logic you try to tar me with.

This hinge upon which the main body of your mail thus rests is rusty and badly fitted at best. At worst - don't push the door too quickly - twill fly off and hurt someone. And you are in what occupation BTW?

That total misassumption on your part in mind therefore - you will comprehend my saying that the following is therefore unworthy of response.

""So by all means espouse your anti-smoking views in a convincing economic arguments, but don

[Mark Buckton 1]

Mainichi on this subject:

http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20040703p2a00m0dm011000c.html

[Guest 98_lbs_soaking_wet]

From Adachinoryu:

"Taro-cum-fag-sucker Sato out there"

"It's about manners"

Nice manners yourself. Did it ever occur to you that some people might not want to hear that word? In the US, we call them ciggarettes. Please watch your language if you're going to be lecturing other people on manners. Some of us see enough of the word fag on the net. (Applauding...)

[Mark Buckton 1]

From Adachinoryu:

"Taro-cum-fag-sucker Sato out there"

"It's about manners"

Nice manners yourself.  Did it ever occur to you that some people might not want to hear that word?  In the US, we call them ciggarettes.  Please watch your language if you're going to be lecturing other people on manners.  Some of us see enough of the word fag on the net. :-)

A fag is a fag is a fag in my original English - whatever else you read into that is your problem - not mine. If you cannot see that the world continues beyond US borders in as far as linguistic variation on language goes then my sympathy is with you. (Dribbling...)

Does th 'u' in coloUr offend? Is is racist if I say 'black' and not African? Please as a member of a nation that is so mind-numbingly argumentative over 'fireman, firefigter, fireperson' trivialities don't try to spread it further. Man. I was laughing only yesterday as I read of 'domestic engineers' (housewives)

Plus, as most members here use Kilograms in daily life do I think your usage of ''lbs' is rather disrespectful? No, I just see that as your choice. Something the US constitution guarantees doesn't it?

Live with mine or don't read it! (Applauding...)

Edited July 4, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Sasanishiki 57]

I would support the above in a slightly different way.

I suggest that we accept the different phrases and language that are used on this forum, realising the diversity of the group.

If there is a word that is used and is too colloquial or linked to a certain region then we are able to ask for clarification by the author, or someone else who understands the meaning. In many respects we already do this by reading translations of the interviews with rikishi, or by having different members tell us about the phrasing or sayings in their language (one about "it's all Chinese/Greek to me" when you don't understand, etc).

I think that if any offense is taken then this could be pointed out, but it is probably better to accept that there is no malice intended. There was certainly no malice in ANR's post, except towards smokers. Indeed, don't we live under a policy to sort out vilification, staying off religion, politics and personal attacks?

So, again, my Forum sisters and brothers, accept the diversity of the forum and thereby accept the different useages of English. Indeed, many are making a gracious effort to use another language so we amay all communicte about sumo, which is the point afterall.

[Higashimori 0]

well this thread has strayed a bit but rather than start a new one I'll just post here a link from Kyodo News (via Yahoo):

Kokugikan sumo stadium to go smoke-free from January tournament

I'm sure Moti will be on the case with a translation from some (probably more thorough) Japanese source but the gist being that the Kyokai announced today (Monday) that smoking would be banned in the Kokugikan from Hatsu Basho '05.

[Kintamayama 44,646]

Indeed, the Kyokai has decided that the KKan will be non-smoking from January. The masu-seki ashtray, the symbol of smoking in the KK, will be removed. In September, the fans will be "asked" to refrain from smoking. Same goes for Osaka and Kyushu- a total ban is PLANNED, but no year has been set for that..

Edited July 12, 2004 by Kintamayama