What if...

[Washuyama 639]

In the "We'll never know" department, if Hakuho were to retire next week and take his "I'm better than Asashoryu"-26 Emperor's cups back to Mongolia to open a B&B, the remaining cream would rise to the top... HMF's 9-win bashos would end and, for some reason, I feel Kotooshu would be able to fill the gap and earn the pretty white rope. When he's "on," he's better than almost everyone (I'll admit he isn't "on" 95% of the time). Kisenosato and Kakuryu would probably surge too, but with the motivation, I feel Osh is better. I don't consider myself of a huge fan of anybody I listed above and would've said Baruto instead of Osh a year ago.

I am now braced for the forthcoming "Are you effing stoned?" replies...

[Swami 245]

This tournament has been good for Kotooshu so far, but I can't see him becoming yokozuna.

Swami

[JariM 29]

No. I just can't see Kotooshu becoming a yokozuna. Since his promotion to Ōzeki in the beginning of '06 he has had two highligts. His 14-1 (yusho) in '08 and a score of 13–2 in '09. After those the best he's been able to score is 10-5. I don't think he has the fire.

If Hakuho would retire, I belive Harumafuji would be winning yushos with mostly 13-2 records.

Edited July 18, 2013 by JariM

[Asashosakari 19,104]

One never knows...if it's really mostly a motivational thing for Kotooshu and the proverbial "hit by a bus" scenario materializes with Hakuho, I could totally see Osh go on a quick rampage, get the tsuna and then have a short and unspectacular yokozuna stint, just to "complete" his career. Kotozakura would be smiling somewhere if it happens, that's for sure.

[Kuroyama 715]

JariM, on 18 Jul 2013 - 10:06, said:

If Hakuho would retire, I belive Harumafuji would be winning yushos with mostly 13-2 records.

How do you figure? In his 4 complete basho as yokozuna he's had one zensho, one 11-4 basho, and the other two have been 9-6. The best he might have done in those two without losses to Hakuho would have been 10-5, and without Hakuho his 11-4 basho would have been won by Kisenosato -- who, absent his own loss to Hakuho, might have gone 14-1.

[JariM 29]

JariM, on 18 Jul 2013 - 10:06, said:

If Hakuho would retire, I belive Harumafuji would be winning yushos with mostly 13-2 records.

How do you figure? In his 4 complete basho as yokozuna he's had one zensho, one 11-4 basho, and the other two have been 9-6. The best he might have done in those two without losses to Hakuho would have been 10-5, and without Hakuho his 11-4 basho would have been won by Kisenosato -- who, absent his own loss to Hakuho, might have gone 14-1.

Fuzzy logic mostly.

I think Hakuho being gone would give Harumafuji room to up his game a bit. I mean mentally. I think he could step up knowing that he is the top dog.

Do you think the 13-2 estimate is too generous?

[Kuroyama 715]

Fuzzy logic mostly.

I think Hakuho being gone would give Harumafuji room to up his game a bit. I mean mentally. I think he could step up knowing that he is the top dog.

Do you think the 13-2 estimate is too generous?

I don't think the presence of Hakuho weighs very much on Harumafuji. HF runs hot and cold. When he's on, he's untouchable. When he's not, he's very mortal. I don't see that changing should Hak not be around for some reason.

[Washuyama 639]

I don't think the presence of Hakuho weighs very much on Harumafuji.

I think the presence of Hakuho weighs greatly on those ranked M3 and above. The "yusho is mine for the taking" mentality would motivate a number of rikishi (all the ozeki plus the likes of Miyogiryu, Goeido and a few others) to do better than you see today. Yes, Hakuho's dominance dramatically changes the game...

[Asashosakari 19,104]

I think the presence of Hakuho weighs greatly on those ranked M3 and above. The "yusho is mine for the taking" mentality would motivate a number of rikishi (all the ozeki plus the likes of Miyogiryu, Goeido and a few others) to do better than you see today. Yes, Hakuho's dominance dramatically changes the game...

I would agree with that, but I don't think Hakuho being gone would specifically help Harumafuji. Just look at the years 2000/01...Takanohana much less effective than before (and often enough outright injured), and Musashimaru as a new and very good yokozuna but not a consistent 13-bout winner. The yusho races turned into a complete free for all (including a briefly resurgent Akebono), but nobody really managed to break out of the pack until Asashoryu came along yet another year later.

At his best Harumafuji might be the best rikishi after Hakuho, but I don't think he's nearly consistent enough to be a true top dog even if Hak was gone. I feel it's more likely that we'd see a whole bunch of first-time yusho winners in that scenario, just like a decade ago, and Harumafuji would still run hot and cold, just at somewhat higher win counts.

Edit: D'oh, changed somewhat because I was off by one year on Ake's intai.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Asashosakari

[aderechelsea 124]

i couldn't put it better than Washuyama, so ..... his post gets a supporter.

[Washuyama 639]

I, for one, would like to see the yusho free for all again. Hakuho makes zensho look like a walk in the park without breaking a sweat.

[p2501 15]

I, for one, would like to see the yusho free for all again. Hakuho makes zensho look like a walk in the park without breaking a sweat.

True, although I would rather like the others to rise up to him, than him to fall down to the others.

[Andreas21 184]

Kisenosato is the number two of Sumo since March, and I have little doubt that he would do e "real" Yokozuna run.