Shiro 13 Posted May 13, 2013 Who do you think is the greatest Ozeki of all time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,384 Posted May 13, 2013 An Ozeki who didn't make Yokozuna? Then Raiden http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3143 hands down. In the modern era, I'd vote for Kaio http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=7 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted May 13, 2013 my vote goes to Takanohana. this video is not proof but it helped me decide the first time i watched it. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiro 13 Posted May 13, 2013 Yeah who didn't make Yokozuna. Should have specified. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted May 13, 2013 my vote goes to Takanohana. this video is not proof but it helped me decide the first time i watched it. Just 1 of numerous unforgettable battles between these two. Takanohana I is the most powerful candidate that I am familiar with. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,501 Posted May 14, 2013 No detailed banzuke results for specific tournaments or video links for Raiden? Colour me disappointed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted May 14, 2013 Raiden fought about 16 matches a YEAR against opponents of unknown athletic ability in an era when sumo was essentially an entertainment vehicle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 2,028 Posted May 14, 2013 I can't find any of Raiden's sumo bouts on youtube, but seems to be from his venture into MMA and looks quite OKish.Seriously though, alltime greatest wankfests are most often pointless. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiro 13 Posted May 14, 2013 Pretty sure the Raiden they are all referring to fought in the early 1800s. Record of 200 some wins and only 8 losses as an Ozeki. You won't find a YouTube video for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiro 13 Posted May 14, 2013 1790-1811 to be exact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 2,028 Posted May 14, 2013 (Taking a photo...) 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiro 13 Posted May 14, 2013 For me I think it's hard not to say Kaio. I mean 1,047 career wins and the fact that he maintained the rank for so long even at the end he was rarely if ever in jeapordy of being demoted, always seeming to get that 8 wins he needed. He was just a class act and I'm glad I was able to watch him. If sumo had a hall of fame he'd be in it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swami 245 Posted May 14, 2013 But surely had Kaio competed in an era where the competition was stronger, there's no way he would have lasted as long. Or at least he would probably have been demoted. Swami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,320 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) But surely had Kaio competed in an era where the competition was stronger, there's no way he would have lasted as long. Or at least he would probably have been demoted.In my opinion, most periods in history weren't any more competitive than the one during which Kaio had his decline phase. The early 2000s might have been a bit soft, but Kaio was still performing as a strong(ish) ozeki at that time. In any case, Kaio did compete during one of the few really competitive periods, the mid to late 1990s - and it quite possibly stopped him (and several others) from becoming ozeki much earlier and winning more yusho than he would have against more average competition. Holding the circumstances of his decline phase against him without acknowledging that facet makes any assessment more skewed than warranted. Edited May 14, 2013 by Asashosakari 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
botev1921 33 Posted May 14, 2013 Here is a video of Raiden ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9wOHJa-GgI Now seriously, I don't think you can compare 19th century Ozeki with modern day Ozeki as nobody really knows how great the first were. To me the best Ozeki will always be Chiyotaikai - a guy who stood strong against some of the biggest Yokozuna! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiro 13 Posted May 15, 2013 Kaio was 34-20 against Chiyotaikai so I've gotta go with Kaio. :) Also Kaio had five yusho compared to chiyotaikais three. But they were both fierce competitors, no doubt of that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Swami 245 Posted May 15, 2013 But surely had Kaio competed in an era where the competition was stronger, there's no way he would have lasted as long. Or at least he would probably have been demoted.In my opinion, most periods in history weren't any more competitive than the one during which Kaio had his decline phase. The early 2000s might have been a bit soft, but Kaio was still performing as a strong(ish) ozeki at that time.In any case, Kaio did compete during one of the few really competitive periods, the mid to late 1990s - and it quite possibly stopped him (and several others) from becoming ozeki much earlier and winning more yusho than he would have against more average competition. Holding the circumstances of his decline phase against him without acknowledging that facet makes any assessment more skewed than warranted. Absolutely, in many ways he deserved to be promoted and was unlucky in many ways he didn't get promoted earlier. But he hung on far too long. Longevity is one thing, but I don't think he would have survived at ozeki until 38 in the 80s or 90s. Swami Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treblemaker 254 Posted May 16, 2013 Add my vote for Kaio. Consistent almost right to the end, still a threat up to the last few bashos.... There may have been flashier Ozeki, but longevity and consistency equal greatness, even if he didn't get into the Yokozuna rank. But... if you're counting Ozeki who went on to become Yoks, then you're talking about a whole different animal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jesinofuji 11 Posted May 16, 2013 Who do you think is the greatest Ozeki of all time? Asashoryu was... Oh wait, you mean the greatest Ozeki who was never promoted to Yokozuna. I have to agree with the above posters, Raiden was, but if the rank Yokozuna had existed in his era, he surely would have been promoted. In the modern era, Kaio hands down! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsubame 361 Posted May 16, 2013 Who do you think is the greatest Ozeki of all time? Asashoryu was... hm... he only fought three bashos as ozeki. Not much time to impress... but on the other hand you can clearly state without any doubts that he had won 2/3 of all his ozeki-bashos :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washuyama 641 Posted May 16, 2013 Futabayama. Two basho as Ozeki, Zero losses. or Split between Kaio and Takanohana I. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,501 Posted May 16, 2013 Watching the Art of Sumo videos that Araibira posted, I was surprised to see that Kaio could actually fight. I'd just assumed he was a Kotooshu-type character. But I only ever watched Kaio the last three or four years of his career when he'd hit 8 wins in a tournament and stop trying, so my view on him is a bit coloured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shiro 13 Posted May 16, 2013 Oh Kaio was a warrior no doubt. 5 Yusho and his record isn't just about longevity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue_Wolf 24 Posted May 16, 2013 Add all Mongolian's vote for Kaio as well. He was truly awesome. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,384 Posted May 17, 2013 Who do you think is the greatest Ozeki of all time? Asashoryu was... Oh wait, you mean the greatest Ozeki who was never promoted to Yokozuna. I have to agree with the above posters, Raiden was, but if the rank Yokozuna had existed in his era, he surely would have been promoted. In the modern era, Kaio hands down! 'Yokozuna' did exist at the time of Raiden, but was a 'licence / certificate' given to some Ozekis. Raiden was never given one. (Allegedly something to do with his patron not being important enough.) Disclaimer: The above is taken from memory, so may have errors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites