Sign in to follow this  
Asojima

Natsu Basho 2013 discussion thread

Recommended Posts

Dear lord that is not good what i just saw with Masunoyama, first time i've felt really scared watching this sport.

Yeah, I'm worried about him too. Time for surgery?

If it helps yes, i'd also say time to leave Sumo and lose as much weight as possible but of course i don't know his life goals, and it's not my place to speculate on what he should do, i don't know if i can watch him fight again though, i just hope he's ok.

I've been worried about Masu all basho. I mean, the guy hyperventilates like he's been running a marathon after a 15 second bout. And he's just 22... Losing weight seems like it could be life-saving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been worried about Masu all basho. I mean, the guy hyperventilates like he's been running a marathon after a 15 second bout. And he's just 22... Losing weight seems like it could be life-saving.

His hyperventilation has little to do with his weight. He has underdeveloped lungs.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hakuho in the yusho interview expects a yokozuna run for Kise next basho - finishing with 2 two wins difference should have made that impossible.

If he wins the next Yusho with 15-0 I'd think he has a fair shot at a promotion. But anything less probably won't cut it. To be fair Kisenosato has had a very solid record as an Ozeki and this jun-Yusho was pretty good one, losing only to a Yokozuna and an Ozeki while managing to beat one Yokozuna. That to me shows clear Yokozuna quality. But I'm no expert of-course. First we need to see how he does the next basho before trying to overly speculate. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been worried about Masu all basho. I mean, the guy hyperventilates like he's been running a marathon after a 15 second bout. And he's just 22... Losing weight seems like it could be life-saving.

His hyperventilation has little to do with his weight. He has underdeveloped lungs.

Well, I'm no doctor, but underdeveloped lungs and overweight doesn't seem like a good combination...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noted that this was the first jun-yusho by an ozeki since July 2009 (Kotooshu) = 21 straight basho. In those basho, 19 maegashira have gotten the jun-yusho... To be fair, there were four yusho by ozeki in that period, and one by meagashira. Also, this was only Kisenosato's second jun-yusho. That doesn't really indicate yokozuna quality so far...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Myōgiryū won the Technique prize? That was unexpected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been worried about Masu all basho. I mean, the guy hyperventilates like he's been running a marathon after a 15 second bout. And he's just 22... Losing weight seems like it could be life-saving.

His hyperventilation has little to do with his weight. He has underdeveloped lungs.

Didn't we establish already some time ago that it is in fact a congenital cardiac valve condition that severly limits his stamina?

= It is not his lungs!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been worried about Masu all basho. I mean, the guy hyperventilates like he's been running a marathon after a 15 second bout. And he's just 22... Losing weight seems like it could be life-saving.

His hyperventilation has little to do with his weight. He has underdeveloped lungs.

Didn't we establish already some time ago that it is in fact a congenital cardiac valve condition that severly limits his stamina?

= It is not his lungs!

A heart condition wouldn’t leave him out of breath.

Wikipedia says this: “Masunoyama has been diagnosed with a congenital heart defect and also has lungs smaller than the average person. […]. He also has a portable oxygen tank he uses during practice when he is feeling out of breath.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hakuho in the yusho interview expects a yokozuna run for Kise next basho - finishing with 2 two wins difference should have made that impossible.

Since Asahifuji's promotion they are pretty much locked into the 2 consecutive yusho position so even a good quality jun-yusho like this one may only count if Kisenosato were to win the next two basho.

Swami

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hakuho in the yusho interview expects a yokozuna run for Kise next basho - finishing with 2 two wins difference should have made that impossible.

Since Asahifuji's promotion they are pretty much locked into the 2 consecutive yusho position so even a good quality jun-yusho like this one may only count if Kisenosato were to win the next two basho.

Swami

The Kotoshogiku loss hurt him, that's for sure... I don't think they would have a problem to promote him on Jun-Yusho / Yusho performances (they could in particularily site that the two yusho rule tends to be more lenient the more Yokozuna there already are in active competition). The 13-2 score however is a world away from a 14-1, and even more importantly, I think they would hesitate very much to promote him with his first Yusho.

After all, its not just the Futahaguro factor in play, they are desperate for the next Takanohana, not the next Onokuni...

I think I mentioned it before too, if Kisenosato can pull off three or four more bashos with solid performance like this on in the next year, he'll finally be what they are hoping him to become, no help necessary.

Edit: As for Masunoyama, this whole thing apart from starting to get really scary, and also somewhat unfair for his opponents too... Can you imagine the scare that Jokoryu must have gone through, just for giving it his best in a bout? Any rikishi who is even a borderline nice guy, I doubt will be very pleased to be fighting Masunoyama...

Edited by krindel
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite frankly, this basho puts a lid on the Hakuho-would-be-happy-to-engineer-a-Japanese-Yusho-if-only-a-worthy-contender-would-care-to-show-up conspiracy theory that I have been a happy supporter of. As always, the system increased its complexity for the outside observer.1

1Autopoeisis at its best.

Edited by yorikiried by fate
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I echo everyone who was shocked after Masunoyama's bout -- that was simply scary. The last thing sumo needs and anyone wants to see is a wrestler having a serious health problem right on the dohyo, and this unfortunately reminds me of too many cases about apparently healthy football/basketball/athletes of other sports who have collapsed on the pitch -- in some cases, perfectly healthy people, as opposed to Masunoyama with his conditions.

As for Kisenosato, man his bout was anticlimactic. I mean, to do so well and then give it up seemingly too easily to Kotoshogiku, who is a very good rikishi no doubt, but still.... Nerves? Overthinking? Lingering thoughts about yesterday's match with Hakuho? Too bad in any case, although as we saw in the yokozunas' match, it wouldn't have made any difference for the yusho.

And as a s(n)ide remark -- Aoiyama never did recover from his massive loss to Kotooshu, losing all his remaining bouts as well.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was literally cringing, watching Masunoyama. I seriously thought he was going to die right there. Jokoryu was really worried as well...I was thinking during the bout, as it lengthened, that Masu should just give up...but he has amazing fighting spirit.

However, I hope his doctors make him at least consider finding another avenue for his talents. I would hate to see him (or his opponents and fans) go through that again. Truly scary.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Toyonoshima again lost to Takekaze (on day 14 last basho) to miss kachi-koshi.
Of the 7-7 rikishi on the last day Kotooshu, Toyohibiki, Fujiazuma and Daido did (against another 7-7, so one had to) win, while Masunoyama, Yoshikaze (against Daido) and Toyonoshima lost - significance ?
In Juryo all four 7-7 rikishi were paired against each other - the best solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyodo reports that Kitanoumi riji-cho thinks that next basho even with only a 13 wins (or more) yusho a yokozuna promotion can be taken into consideration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice basho in general. At least it was competitive (in theory) till day 14. I would love to see Tokushoryu get the juryo yusho and maybe Shohozan getting to double digits .... but you know ... not bad at all in general.

Also happy for Takekaze ... i just wish he didn't beat Toyonoshima for his 9th win and giving him a MK.

.

.

.

and I'll say it again ... watch all of Kisenosato's fights in a row. He doesn't look as dominant as you think. He just happened to get through some mediocre bouts (vs Myogi, Baruto and O3), had some wins against rikishi that were abysmal and he lost in the only 2 bouts that actually mattered ..... I wouldn't hold my breath till he gets his first Yusho.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyodo reports that Kitanoumi riji-cho thinks that next basho even with only a 13 wins (or more) yusho a yokozuna promotion can be taken into consideration.

IIRC Tochiazuma was told that 13-2 would be enough as long as it was at least a jun yusho. That said, that was for the basho after winning the last Japanese yusho. Seem odd though that they're talking promotion without a yusho first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seem odd though that they're talking promotion without a yusho first.

desperate times ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seem odd though that they're talking promotion without a yusho first.

desperate times ...

Why didn't Kise get the yusho, then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seem odd though that they're talking promotion without a yusho first.

desperate times ...

Why didn't Kise get the yusho, then?

not good enough?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tsuna will only bring tons of pressure onto Kisenosato that's going to make him crumble. It'd be different with a yusho, the margin would be better and it'd leave no doubt. The feeling gets much stronger if you're overplayed (thus creating higher expectations than what facts would appear) and the weight on his matta-prone shoulders will be almost intolerable.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyodo reports that Kitanoumi riji-cho thinks that next basho even with only a 13 wins (or more) yusho a yokozuna promotion can be taken into consideration.

IIRC Tochiazuma was told that 13-2 would be enough as long as it was at least a jun yusho. That said, that was for the basho after winning the last Japanese yusho. Seem odd though that they're talking promotion without a yusho first.
Not much of a difference between yusho + jun (Tochiazuma scenario) and jun + yusho (Kise scenario per Kitanoumi)... The latter arguably even leaves a better taste, considering it doesn't require promoting somebody right after a basho in which he failed to win the yusho. Edited by Asashosakari
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kisenosato looks like a very good Ozeki to me but he doesn't look like a Yokozuna, at least not yet, part of the problem is the titanic Hakuho who even makes Harumafuji look like a questionable choice, even though Haru is above the current crop of Ozeki and therefore logically Yokozuna material, pardon my rambling. :)

Edited by Bugman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this