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Asojima

Natsu Basho 2013 discussion thread

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A win by Kakuryu will make the next banzuke (esp. for san'yaku) much easier...

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I have just realized I have grown so used to the Ozeki exchanging favours that if Kakuryu for some unexplainable reason wins tomorrow - not that I remotely think that will happen - it will feel like the wrong thing.

At any rate, I can't picture Kotooshu celebrating another Christmas as an Ozeki. His recent form is so dismal.

I too don`t see Kotooshu losing tomorrow - and he *did* deserve to. To many 8-7, to many injuries. Time to Intai.

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To many 8-7, to many injuries. Time to Intai.

or he would just stay in Makuuchi for 3-4-5 years and make a living. Retiring at the age of 30 is not the solution for everyone.

ask Miyabiyama.....

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I for myself hope he will get demoted. It would be very interesting (at least for me) to see how he's doing below the Ozeki ranks.

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So with too many Yokozuna, to me alone anyway, it would feel like it might not be such an accomplishment. We already have some people who felt that Harumafuji is a weak Yokozuna and maybe shouldn't have gotten the promotion. Then other feel that there might be some relaxation of the rules to get Kisenosato into Yokozuna(dom) just so there would be a Japanese at the top again. I'm one of the people that feels it should be really, really hard to get to the rank. Like three basho wins in a row with at least two of them being perfect with no losses. That's just me though and like I said, I respect everyone else's views too.

A few years back we had 4 Yokozunae at the same time and it was exciting to the hilt. Akebono, Musashimaru, Takanohana And Wakanohana (who didn't do that great at the rank but still mattered). Granted, most of the time one of them was injured or out, but when it was good, it was great. And you couldn't get a ticket to any day standing sideways.

Also, with three active Yokozuna, the lowest ranked rikishi (Takatouriki in Haru 2000) won the yusho, so..

I think this takes us back to the argument that's probably been gone through more than once on this forum -- yokozunas did not used to be mean 15-0 zenshoyusho machines like Asashoryu and Hakuho have been. 10-15-20 years ago it was much more common for a yokozuna to finish with 13-2 or 12-3 and I don't think many people disputed that they were less deserving of the title because of that. In short, like has been said many times, we've been spoiled by two consecutive Mongolian yokozuna who were/are unusually strong.

Edited by dingo
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I for myself hope he will get demoted. It would be very interesting (at least for me) to see how he's doing below the Ozeki ranks.

I agree. We've been watching him struggle past the top guys for too long. How would he do against lower opposition? Still struggle to keep positive records or having his natural quality keep him near the top? It'd be interesting.

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To many 8-7, to many injuries. Time to Intai.

or he would just stay in Makuuchi for 3-4-5 years and make a living. Retiring at the age of 30 is not the solution for everyone.

ask Miyabiyama.....

True, true. But at least he should drop down. I hope that Kakuruyu don't make it easy for him. So we'll drop from six Ozeki some basho ago to three next basho... maybe a more reasonable number?

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Whether Kotooshu gets demoted or not doesn't matter much. If he doesn't retain ozeki status, I don't see him getting back there. But he'll truck along with his brand of alright sumo, whether it's as an ozeki, sekiwake, or maegashira. Despite his frequent injuries, he seems impervious to anything career ending and always comes back for more.

I'm more interested in seeing how much fighting spirit Kakuryu puts into the match. To me, this is more a test of Kakuryu's quality of character: does he come out, no nonsense, like Shohozan? Or does he fold like a cheap deck of Bulgarian cards?

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Kotooshu's 7 wins have all been against guys who are currently MK (as are a couple who beat him). On the Senshuraku he's up against this bashos fourth best sekitori. Outside of the "non-existent" OBSC, what criteria can be applied to a conviction that he won't lose to Kakuryu?

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I for myself hope he will get demoted. It would be very interesting (at least for me) to see how he's doing below the Ozeki ranks.

I agree. We've been watching him struggle past the top guys for too long. How would he do against lower opposition? Still struggle to keep positive records or having his natural quality keep him near the top? It'd be interesting.

As a Sekiwake, he will essentially meet exactly the same guys, except in a different order.

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Kotooshu's 7 wins have all been against guys who are currently MK (as are a couple who beat him). On the Senshuraku he's up against this bashos fourth best sekitori. Outside of the "non-existent" OBSC, what criteria can be applied to a conviction that he won't lose to Kakuryu?

Omnipresent element of uncertainty? (Hit the wall...)

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Or does he fold like a cheap deck of Bulgarian cards?

Like this one?

I for myself hope he will get demoted. It would be very interesting (at least for me) to see how he's doing below the Ozeki ranks.

I agree. We've been watching him struggle past the top guys for too long. How would he do against lower opposition? Still struggle to keep positive records or having his natural quality keep him near the top? It'd be interesting.

As a Sekiwake, he will essentially meet exactly the same guys, except in a different order.

I am aware of that. But he'd be kicked out of his famous vicious cicle that involves a seemingly eternal spate of kadoban and 8-7 alternatedly, and as a sekiwake he wouldn't have a safe back anymore. One of his early kyujo or lousy score, and it'd be down to the wilderness for him. That's more what I mean, expecting him to fall down there somewhen. Not immediately.

But what if he got demoted indeed, then happened to muster those said 10 wins in July? Now that's something no-one predicts.

Edited by Koorifuu

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I hope to God Masunoyama just has a bad stitch.

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Dear lord that is not good what i just saw with Masunoyama, first time i've felt really scared watching this sport.

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Dear lord that is not good what i just saw with Masunoyama, first time i've felt really scared watching this sport.

Yeah, I'm worried about him too. Time for surgery?

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Dear lord that is not good what i just saw with Masunoyama, first time i've felt really scared watching this sport.

Yeah, I'm worried about him too. Time for surgery?

If it helps yes, i'd also say time to leave Sumo and lose as much weight as possible but of course i don't know his life goals, and it's not my place to speculate on what he should do, i don't know if i can watch him fight again though, i just hope he's ok.

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So Kakuryu managed to "turn around accidently" in his bout. Great show and nice to see that the [banned]-club still pulls it strings in the background! (Laughing...)

Edited by Tsubame
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Kisenosato’s yokozuna run is already over, I guess… :(

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ZENSHŌ!!!

Harumafuji tried again his sidestepping tachi-ai, but it worked against him this time.

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Well there goes another basho, time flies when you're having fun as they say, congratulations to Hak, i feel honoured to have seen such a great Yokozuna.

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So Kakuryu managed to "turn around accidently" in his bout. Great show and nice to see that the [banned]-club still pulls it strings in the background! (Laughing...)

It was never that kind of arrangement, methinks.

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Curious trivia:

After it took something like 30 years before we saw a basho without any playoff whatsoever in January, this rare constellation has been repeated now only four months later.

Maybe the torikumi makers are real good?

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Hakuho in the yusho interview expects a yokozuna run for Kise next basho - finishing with 2 two wins difference should have made that impossible.

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