Andonishiki 168 Posted May 6, 2013 (edited) Dear fellow sumogamers, after consulting with Gusoyama, I've decided to try a RELAUNCH of SCS - Salary Cup Sumo for Natsu 2013. - PLEASE SEND YOUR TEAM TO THE FOLLOWING E-MAIL ADDRESS TILL DEADLINE: 15:00 Japan time on Sunday, May 12, 2013. SCS2013@LIVE.COM If this effort will turn into a web based automated version and if it can replace the old SCS in the Super Banzuke is not clear so far. If you have a bit of time and some technical skills, please help me to keep this great game alive and honor Gusoyama's idea. The rules of the game are very similar to the old ones, with a few additions, that will add a little more thrill.... hopefully. Salarycap Sumo emphasizes managing your resources to get the most points possible. The format was adapted from fantasy football games where players are given a certain amount of money, and must buy athletes that have a pre-determined price. Rules: a) Each player has 1000 Yen to pick a team of rikishi from below price list b) Each team consists of a minimum of 5 rikishi and a maximum of 10 rikishi c) Place the selected rikishi in the order of expected number of wins Placement of the rikishi that you chose is very important, because each of the picks gets a different multiplier applied to their final score. This multiplier ranges from 10 times the total down for the first pick, down to 1 times the total for the 10th pick. Points: Wins: 3 points Kachikoshi (for each rikishi in your team reaching kk): 6 points Ginboshi (Maegashira beats Ozeki): 4 points Kinboshi (Maegashira beats Yokozuna): 8 points Special price (Gino-, Kanto-, Shukunsho): 12 points each Yusho (no matter what result): 40 points Jun-Yusho: (no matter what result) 24 points Jun-Yusho points might be split among several rikishi, if necessary. Pricing: Total value of all 42 Makuuchi rikishi is 6000 Yen. Total of the ten cheapest rikishi combined is 1000 Yen, so a team of 10 players is possible. Prices of each rikishi are chosen by the new SCS pricing commitee - a secret crystal ball is used. Winner: The player reaching the most points combined from all rikishi in his team wins. Tie-breaker rules: In case of a tie, the player who spend the least money for his team wins. If there is still a tie, the player with the lowest ranked rikishi in his team wins, If there is still a tie, the player with the next lowest ranked rikishi in his team wins, and so on... If two players have identical entries, a rocks-paper-scissors match will ensue. Banzuke, Promotion and Demotion rules not applicable yet. Example: Team Player A #1: Hakuho (Yusho, 14 wins) #2: Kisenosato (Jun-Yusho, 12 wins) #3: Azumaryu (6 wins) #4: Daikiho (7 wins) #5 Wakanosato (3 wins). He spends a total of 998 Yen (466+246+91+90+105). He has chosen at least five rikishi, so his team is eligible to play. Points: Hakuho: 14 wins x 3 x multiplier 10 = 420 points + kk 6 points + yusho 40 points =466 points Kisenosato: 12 wins x 3 x multiplier 9 = 324 points + kk 6 points + jun-yusho 24 points = 354 points Azumaryu 6 wins x 3 x multiplier 8 = 144 points Daikiho 7 wins x 3 x multiplier 7 = 149 points Wakanosato 3 wins x 3 x multiplier 6 = 54 points Total points Player A: 1167 points Team Player B: He spends a total of 998 Yen (132 +185 +119+120+117+118+116+91) =998 Yen He has chosen 8 rikishi, so his team is eligible to play. #1: Myogiryu (Kinboshi, Ginosho, 11 wins) #2: Kotooshu (8 wins) #3: Gagamaru (Ginboshi, Kantosho, 11 wins) #4: Chiyotairyu (Ginboshi, 10 wins) #5: Masunoyama (8 wins) #6: Kaisei (8 wins) #7: Jokoryu (7 wins) #8: Azumaryu (6 wins) Points: Myogiryu: 11 wins x 3 x multiplier 10 = 330 points + kk 6 points + sansho 12 points + kinboshi 8 points = 356 points Kotooshu: 222 points Gagamaru: 286 points Chitairyu: 220 points Masunoyama: 150 points Kaisei: 126 points Jokoryu: 84 points Azumaryu: 54 points: Total points Player B: 1498 points So despite picking Yusho and Jun-Yusho rikishi in this fictional example, Player A did not win over Player B PLEASE DON'T POST YOUR TEAM IN THIS FORUM, ONLY BY MAIL TO SCS2013@HOTMAIL.COM till further notice. I will send a confirmation of your team by mail response. I will further post all team line-ups and results (probably not daily, but aiming for every third day) here in this forum Please tell fellow sumogamers, who do not read this forum much, about this relaunch. Please send me your feedback, thoughts and ideas !! Thank you for playing and keeping SCS alive ! all complaints English spelling mistakes are hereby heartfully regretted.... PRICES OF INDIVIDUAL RIKISHI: Hakuho 466 Harumafuji 437 Kisenosato 246 Kakuryu 222 Kotoshogiku 220 Kotooshu 185 Goeido 161 Baruto 156 Tochiozan 144 Okinoumi 130 Myogiryu 132 Aminishiki 126 Kitataiki 118 Tochinoshin 122 Takarafuji 117 Aran 118 Aoiyama 121 Toyonoshima 124 Shohozan 120 Takayasu 122 Yoshikaze 117 Takekaze 114 Fujiazuma 112 Jokoryu 116 Tokitenku 118 Sadanofuji 110 Kyokutenho 121 Ikioi 119 Chiyotairyu 120 Toyohibiki 120 Shotenro 114 Gagamaru 119 Wakanosato 105 Kyokushuho 98 Daido 114 Masunoyama 117 Kaisei 118 Chiyootori 93 Chiyonokuni 95 Homarefuji 92 Ayumaryu 91 Daikiho 90 GOOD LUCK ! Edited May 11, 2013 by Andonishiki 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) PLS USE SCS2013@LIVE.COM thanks Edited May 11, 2013 by Andonishiki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 8, 2013 first status update as of Wednesday 5pm, Tokio time 10 player have submitted their teams that's a good start, but awaiting many more !! I plan to send our the first batch of checks and confirmation mails within the next 8 hours Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakana 46 Posted May 8, 2013 I've made a translation of your topic and posted it on french Info-Sumo forum. (here) :-) If it can bring more players. ;-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 9, 2013 merci beaucoup, Sakana-san. one Frenchie already sent his/her team, malheureusement containing only 4 rikishi..... ce ne marche pas :-(( There must be 5 (FIVE = CINQ) rikishi in each team as minimum, s'il vous plaît. looking fw to at least 30 participants, after the second basho a banzuke, promotion & demotion rules etc. will follow. and... probably also web automation, Entry page in 日本語 and super banzuke points.... so DON'T MISS OUT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 124 Posted May 10, 2013 thanks a lot Andonishiki-san for reviving this game. Although i was absent for ages from Sumo-gaming this was one of my favourite ones. (In jonokuchi...) entry sent ... awaiting for my mediocre results in 2 weeks time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 124 Posted May 10, 2013 (edited) well .... entry not sent after all. i am getting this message from gmail: Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently: SCS2013@HOTMAIL.COMTechnical details of permanent failure:Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain hotmail.com bymx2.hotmail.com. [65.54.188.110].The error that the other server returned was:550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable Edited May 10, 2013 by aderechelsea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sakana 46 Posted May 10, 2013 Adere' : Andonishiki forgot to fix the first post, but the available e-mail is : SCS2013@LIVE.COM :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 124 Posted May 10, 2013 cheers for that ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nomadwolf 8 Posted May 11, 2013 Sure, you post this just 2 days after I purge SCS from my sumogames prep spreadsheets... Maybe next basho. There must be 5 (FIVE = CINQ) rikishi in each team as minimum, s'il vous plaît. new rule? I don't recall this one before... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruziklao 34 Posted May 11, 2013 Sure, you post this just 2 days after I purge SCS from my sumogames prep spreadsheets... Maybe next basho. There must be 5 (FIVE = CINQ) rikishi in each team as minimum, s'il vous plaît. new rule? I don't recall this one before... Surely it was not there, good old Benderdurono often had much fewer rikishi on his squad - http://strongoak.net/salarysumo/picks.php?uname=Benderdurono Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vikanohara 171 Posted May 11, 2013 Terribly sorry.... microsoft seems to terminate hotmail addresses. Oh, I'm hoping to keep my mailbox then. :-S Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 11, 2013 (edited) update - got about 30 entries so far, spreadsheet preparation is ongoing. @ nomadwolf Yes, the minimum of five rikishi in one team is a new rule, which -so far- I received mostly positive feedback on. hope, you find new space on your sumogame prep spreadsheet (fantastic idea, by the way) to add salary cup in July. @ sakana: thanks for helping out - yes, the correct mail address is SCS2013@LIVE.COM Reminder: Deadline in 10 hours - 15:00 Tokyo time !! Edited May 11, 2013 by Andonishiki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 507 Posted May 11, 2013 Yes, the minimum of five rikishi in one team is a new rule, which -so far- I received mostly positive feedback on. Definitely no positive feedback from me.... I told you that I don't like this restriction..... Nevertheless, thanks a lot for your efforts to revive this great game. Ganzohnesushi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenjimoto 40 Posted May 11, 2013 I'm in! (Punk rocker...)​ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 13, 2013 Finally, the spreadsheet is done - thanks also to kamogawa. We have 42 active players, perfect for a makuuchi division. NICE !! Some interesting stats: - average amount of Yen spent: 985,24 Yen - number of players who spent exactly 1000 Yen: six - lowest amount of Yen spent: 912 Yen only - number of players with the minimum of five rikishi: 24 !! - number of players chosing Hakuho: 25 ! (all on position #1) - number of players chosing Harumafuji: two only - number of players chosing Baruto: 20 - Not popular rikishi: Kotooshu, Kotoshogiku, Kitataiki, Takarafuji, Aran, Shotenro Conclusions: Hakuho seems still too cheap at 466 Yen. Still it's more popular to chose expensive rikishi with higher rank instead of forming a larger team of 7-10 rikishi. We'll see how it goes over the basho, I'm planning to post a first result update after day 3. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) All the teams, sorted by least number of Yen are listed below. Please have a quick look at your own team to doublecheck. Even though kamogawa & me tried to work very carefully, no gurantees for typos Shikona Yen total Mariohana 912 Hakuho Gagamaru Chiyootori Jokoryu Kaisei Shiyonofuji 924 Hakuho Baruto Gagamaru Chiyootori Daikiho Ganzohnesushi 924 Hakuho Myogiryu Chiyotairyu Daikiho Jokoryu Marushiki 950 Hakuho Okinoumi Yoshikaze Ikioi Kaisei Gawasukotto 954 Hakuho Baruto Tochinoshin Ikioi Azumaryu Torafuji 967 Hakuho Toyonoshima Myogiryu Aminishiki Gagamaru Kotononami 972 Chiyotairyu Takayasu Myogiryu Ikioi Toyonoshima Masunoyama Shohozan Kaisei Fuheika 976 Hakuho Baruto Jokoryu Chiyotairyu Kaisei Flohru 982 Kisenosato Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Daikiho Jokoryu Kyokushuho Chiyootori Chiyonokuni Sebunshu 983 Hakuho Ikioi Toyonoshima Baruto Kaisei Kitakachiyama 983 Hakuho Baruto Chiyotairyu Ikioi Takayasu Jejima 984 Hakuho Goeido Chiyotairyu Kaisei Gagamaru Kaiowaka 985 Hakuho Goeido Shohozan Chiyotairyu Kaisei Bunijiman 985 Hakuho Goeido Kaisei Kyokutenho Ikioi kamogawa 987 Kisenosato Okinoumi Chiyonokuni Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Jokoryu Baruto chishafuwaku 989 Chiyotairyu Tochiozan Masunoyama Baruto Myogiryu Toyohibiki Chiyonokuni Wakanosato Doitsuyama 991 Hakuho Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Shohozan Goeido Randomitsuki 992 Hakuho Baruto Aminishiki Toyonoshima Shohozan kuroimori 993 Hakuho Baruto Myogiryu Takayasu Masunoyama Tikozan 994 Baruto Kaisei Tochiozan Kotoshogiku Tokitenku Gagamaru Ikioi Zenjimoto 995 Baruto Goeido Kyokutenho Gagamaru Jokoryu Kyokushuho Ikioi Wakanosato Gaijingai 995 Hakuho Toyonoshima Gagamaru Chiyonokuni Chiyootori Kyokushuho mischashimaru 996 Hakuho Baruto Toyonoshima Kaisei Myogiryu Ruziklao 996 Hakuho Baruto Goeido Kaisei Chiyonokuni Konosato 996 Hakuho Kaisei Toyonoshima Myogiryu Baruto Pandaazuma 996 Hakuho Baruto Goeido Kaisei Chiyonokuni Vikanohara 997 Baruto Goeido Shohozan Toyonoshima Chiyotairyu Myogiryu Chiyootori Azumaryu Mmikasazuma 997 Kisenosato Goeido Myogiryu Toyonoshima Ikioi Yoshikaze Kyokushuho aderechelseamaru 997 Kisenosato Chiyotairyu Kyokutenho Daikiho Takayasu Chiyonokuni Kyokushuho Wakanosato Kaiomitsuki 997 Harumafuji Baruto Goeido Gagamaru Toyonoshima Andonishiki 998 Gagamaru Baruto Chiyotairyu Ikioi Aoiyama Masunoyama Daido Myogiryu Holleshoryu 998 Hakuho Baruto Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Myogiryu Gibuten 998 Hakuho Kisenosato Kyokushuho Chiyonokuni Chiyootori Fuseigou 999 Hakuho Shohozan Kaisei Azumaryu Homarefuji Fujiazuma Tosahayate 999 Baruto Goeido Toyonoshima Jokoryu Myogiryu Chiyotairyu Kyokushuho Homarefuji Yoohoo 999 Hakuho Jokoryu Homarefuji Yoshikaze Tokitenku Daikiho Frinkanohana 1000 Hakuho Toyonoshima Aoiyama Baruto Takayasu GONZABUROW 1000 Baruto Goeido Toyonoshima Kaisei Gagamaru Kyokushuho Myogiryu Homarefuji Achiyama 1000 Kisenosato Goeido Ikioi Gagamaru Kaisei Chiyotairyu Masunoyama ScreechingOwl 1000 Chiyotairyu Kisenosato Shohozan Kaisei Chiyootori Takayasu Daikiho Azumaryu Neko 1000 Harumafuji Goeido Baruto Myogiryu Daido Aoyume 1000 Azumaryu Chiyonokuni Chiyootori Daido Daikiho Fujiazuma Homarefuji Kyokushuho Sadanofuji Wakanosato Note: Aoyume is a dummy, that chose the cheapest rikishi in alphabetic order to form a team of 10 Edited May 13, 2013 by Andonishiki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randomitsuki 2,768 Posted May 13, 2013 Hakuho seems still too cheap at 466 Yen. Still it's more popular to chose expensive rikishi with higher rank instead of forming a larger team of 7-10 rikishi. I think the main reason why so few players use larger teams is not because of Hakuho's (or anybody else's) price, but because of the multipliers. The slots 8-10 (8+9+10 = 27) have as much power as the slots 1-7 (1+2+ ... +7=28). In other words, rikishi with a low multiplier do not have any significant impact on your outcome. One way to circumvent this relatively easily would be to use higher multipliers, e.g. 15 for the top pick, 14 for the second rikishi etc.. Diminishing returns would not be so strong under this scenario. That being said, it's your game of course, and I am just happy to participate. :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,786 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Yup, the "low slots are nearly worthless" issue has always been a bane of SCS. And it actually gets worse the lower down you go, just think of it as a stepwise process in which you decide whether to pay for one expensive-but-good rikishi or two cheap-but-mediocre ones, with all three having the same relative value (say, "expensive" costing 300 yen and bringing in 40 points, and "cheap" each costing 150 yen for 20 points). In the best case scenario they all slot in at the end of the queue for the least overall loss, say E would be in slot 4 (multiplier 7), while C1 and C2 would be in slots 4 and 5 (average multiplier 6.5); in that case you'd have lost 20 points total and the cheap rikishi would need to score 8% (7/6.5) better to make up for the slot-splitting. The same scenario further down (e.g. slot 7 vs. slots 7 & 8) also costs 20 points total, but the cheap pair would now need to be 14% better (4/3.5) to compensate. And most of the time you're not actually getting to do a two-for-one substitution at equal position, but further down - say, taking a rikishi out of slot 4 to add new ones at 6 and 7. In that case you're losing points on all interim slots as well: slot 4 is filled by the presumably worse rikishi originally in slot 5, slot 5 is filled by the even worse slot 6 rikishi, and the two new ones that go into slot 6 and 7 must now compensate for the shifting losses at slots 4 and 5 and for the splitting loss. It's rather difficult to find enough rikishi that actually provide sufficient value at low slots - they pretty much must be capable of achieving KK and be dirt cheap, not something you'll find too often. (And even if you think you have found such rikishi, much of the time you're probably wrong.) Edited May 14, 2013 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nomadwolf 8 Posted May 14, 2013 For me, I usually go for the expensive ones in the top slots, but toward the bottom, I go for the cheapies... Even swapping a 8-winner (at 200 points) for 2 with 5 wins (at 100 each) is worthwhile for any slot above 3 points. i.e. 8 wins at 5 points ==> 120 pts. 5 wins @ 5 + 5 @ 4 ==> 75 + 60 = 135. (remember 3 points per win) So, getting 2 rikishi to be 8% better than the original 1 is not that difficult. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,786 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) For me, I usually go for the expensive ones in the top slots, but toward the bottom, I go for the cheapies... Even swapping a 8-winner (at 200 points) for 2 with 5 wins (at 100 each) is worthwhile for any slot above 3 points. i.e. 8 wins at 5 points ==> 120 pts. 5 wins @ 5 + 5 @ 4 ==> 75 + 60 = 135. (remember 3 points per win) So, getting 2 rikishi to be 8% better than the original 1 is not that difficult. That's because somebody expected to deliver only 24 points for 200 yen isn't a terribly good pick in the first place. ;-) A 200-yen guy really should be a good bet to bring in 30+ points to be worth his price. (All under the old system, of course.) I don't think I ever picked a mere "should achieve KK but not much more" rikishi for more than 130 yen or so - try to replace that one at favourable value, given that even the cheap rikishi often came in at 80+ yen. Edit: Actually, that points to another issue with the old pricing - too many rikishi at prices of 150+ who were very unlikely to provide good value more often than maybe once a year (which nevertheless was often enough to drive up their price that high in the first place, making them perpetually bad bets). Edited May 14, 2013 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andonishiki 168 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Great discussion ! this is a extremely helpful way to create the most exciting game out of the idea of Salary Cup. Pls add your ideas ! I'm fascinated by the intelligence of many forum participants in terms of statistics & probabilities. Here are the first results after three days.... doesn't really have a lot of meaning, but anyway. So far, those players who chose more than 5 rikishi are in the upper half. Myogiryu's kinboshi earned an extra 8 points. Strangely someone very unexpected is leading the pack: Rank Shikona points 1 Andonishiki 108 2 Mmikasazuma 103 3 Achiyama 101 4 Gaijingai 100 5 Gibuten 99 6 GONZABUROW 95 7 Vikanohara 93 8 Frinkanohana 92 9 kuroimori 89 10 Tikozan 86 11 mischashimaru 85 12 Sebunshu 84 13 Kitakachiyama 84 14 Holleshoryu 84 15 Kotononami 83 16 Ruziklao 83 17 Pandaazuma 83 18 Konosato 82 19 Zenjimoto 81 20 Tosahayate 81 21 Kaiomitsuki 80 22 Flohru 79 23 Shiyonofuji 78 24 chishafuwaku 78 25 Aoyume 78 26 Torafuji 76 27 Jejima 76 28 Bunijiman 75 29 ScreechingOwl 75 30 Neko 75 31 Gawasukotto 74 32 Doitsuyama 74 33 aderechelseamaru 74 34 kamogawa 73 35 Fuseigou 71 36 Mariohana 70 37 Randomitsuki 68 38 Kaiowaka 63 39 Fuheika 61 40 Marushiki 58 41 Ganzohnesushi 55 42 Yoohoo 55 Next results should be posted after day 6 - stay tuned ! Edited May 15, 2013 by Andonishiki Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 507 Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) Terrible performance by my team so far... But I also realize that Myogiru*s Kinboshi is worth almost nothing compared to an additional win on slot 9. It is 8 points vs. 27 points, i.e. the Kinboshi does not even compensate 0,3 wins.... That is ridiculously low. Let us assume the Kinboshi is rewarded with a Sansho this gives an additional 12 points only. These 20 points in total are still less worth than 0,75 wins. Conclusion: M1 Myogiryu finishing 8-7 and decorated with Kinboshi and Sansho is less useful than any M15 Rikishi who achieves a simple 9-6. From that perspective it doesn't make sense to put M1-M3 Rikishi in high points anymore. Ganzohnesushi Edited May 15, 2013 by Ganzohnesushi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,173 Posted May 15, 2013 Wait - there must be a mistake here, or? There used to be huge changes on day 15 in Salary Cup when the bonus points were awarded. Is this really an intended rule change or just an error in the example calculations above? I certainly hope the latter, because, as you said, the bonus points are ridiculously low this way, reducing it to wins only basically. Please clarify. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ganzohnesushi 507 Posted May 15, 2013 I fear it is reduced to wins only. Yusho gives 40 points, Jun-Yusho 24 points irrespective of number of wins and irrespective in which slot your Rikishi is placed. Beside the number of wins having Yusho and/or Jun-Yusho winner in your team is not really rewarded in the new system. As much as I like to see the game revived, I have to ask Ando whether he thinks all the rule changes are really conducive. From my point of view this is a step in the totally wrong direction as this (formerly brilliant) game would be reduced to another simple game where only the number of wins are counted. Ganzohnesushi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
