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Andonishiki

! Salary Cup 2013 - Game Revival !

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Dear fellow sumogamers,

after consulting with Gusoyama, I've decided to try a RELAUNCH of SCS - Salary Cup Sumo for Natsu 2013.

- PLEASE SEND YOUR TEAM TO THE FOLLOWING E-MAIL ADDRESS TILL

DEADLINE: 15:00 Japan time on Sunday, May 12, 2013.

SCS2013@LIVE.COM

If this effort will turn into a web based automated version and if it can replace the old SCS in the Super Banzuke is not clear so far.

If you have a bit of time and some technical skills, please help me to keep this great game alive and honor Gusoyama's idea.

The rules of the game are very similar to the old ones, with a few additions, that will add a little more thrill.... hopefully.

Salarycap Sumo emphasizes managing your resources to get the most points possible. The format was adapted from fantasy football games where players are given a certain amount of money, and must buy athletes that have a pre-determined price.

Rules:

a) Each player has 1000 Yen to pick a team of rikishi from below price list

b) Each team consists of a minimum of 5 rikishi and a maximum of 10 rikishi

c) Place the selected rikishi in the order of expected number of wins

Placement of the rikishi that you chose is very important, because each of the picks gets a different multiplier applied to their final score.

This multiplier ranges from 10 times the total down for the first pick, down to 1 times the total for the 10th pick.

Points:

Wins: 3 points

Kachikoshi (for each rikishi in your team reaching kk): 6 points

Ginboshi (Maegashira beats Ozeki): 4 points

Kinboshi (Maegashira beats Yokozuna): 8 points

Special price (Gino-, Kanto-, Shukunsho): 12 points each

Yusho (no matter what result): 40 points

Jun-Yusho: (no matter what result) 24 points

Jun-Yusho points might be split among several rikishi, if necessary.

Pricing:

Total value of all 42 Makuuchi rikishi is 6000 Yen.

Total of the ten cheapest rikishi combined is 1000 Yen, so a team of 10 players is possible.

Prices of each rikishi are chosen by the new SCS pricing commitee - a secret crystal ball is used.

Winner:

The player reaching the most points combined from all rikishi in his team wins.

Tie-breaker rules:

In case of a tie, the player who spend the least money for his team wins.

If there is still a tie, the player with the lowest ranked rikishi in his team wins,

If there is still a tie, the player with the next lowest ranked rikishi in his team wins, and so on...

If two players have identical entries, a rocks-paper-scissors match will ensue.

Banzuke, Promotion and Demotion rules not applicable yet.

Example:

Team Player A

#1: Hakuho (Yusho, 14 wins)

#2: Kisenosato (Jun-Yusho, 12 wins)

#3: Azumaryu (6 wins)

#4: Daikiho (7 wins)

#5 Wakanosato (3 wins).

He spends a total of 998 Yen (466+246+91+90+105).

He has chosen at least five rikishi, so his team is eligible to play.

Points:

Hakuho: 14 wins x 3 x multiplier 10 = 420 points + kk 6 points + yusho 40 points =466 points

Kisenosato: 12 wins x 3 x multiplier 9 = 324 points + kk 6 points + jun-yusho 24 points = 354 points

Azumaryu 6 wins x 3 x multiplier 8 = 144 points

Daikiho 7 wins x 3 x multiplier 7 = 149 points

Wakanosato 3 wins x 3 x multiplier 6 = 54 points

Total points Player A: 1167 points

Team Player B:

He spends a total of 998 Yen (132 +185 +119+120+117+118+116+91) =998 Yen

He has chosen 8 rikishi, so his team is eligible to play.

#1: Myogiryu (Kinboshi, Ginosho, 11 wins)

#2: Kotooshu (8 wins)

#3: Gagamaru (Ginboshi, Kantosho, 11 wins)

#4: Chiyotairyu (Ginboshi, 10 wins)

#5: Masunoyama (8 wins)

#6: Kaisei (8 wins)

#7: Jokoryu (7 wins)

#8: Azumaryu (6 wins)

Points:

Myogiryu: 11 wins x 3 x multiplier 10 = 330 points + kk 6 points + sansho 12 points + kinboshi 8 points = 356 points

Kotooshu: 222 points

Gagamaru: 286 points

Chitairyu: 220 points

Masunoyama: 150 points

Kaisei: 126 points

Jokoryu: 84 points

Azumaryu: 54 points:

Total points Player B: 1498 points

So despite picking Yusho and Jun-Yusho rikishi in this fictional example, Player A did not win over Player B

PLEASE DON'T POST YOUR TEAM IN THIS FORUM, ONLY BY MAIL TO SCS2013@HOTMAIL.COM till further notice.

I will send a confirmation of your team by mail response.

I will further post all team line-ups and results (probably not daily, but aiming for every third day) here in this forum

Please tell fellow sumogamers, who do not read this forum much, about this relaunch.

Please send me your feedback, thoughts and ideas !!

Thank you for playing and keeping SCS alive !

all complaints English spelling mistakes are hereby heartfully regretted....

PRICES OF INDIVIDUAL RIKISHI:

Hakuho 466 Harumafuji 437 Kisenosato 246 Kakuryu 222 Kotoshogiku 220 Kotooshu 185

Goeido 161 Baruto 156 Tochiozan 144 Okinoumi 130 Myogiryu 132 Aminishiki 126

Kitataiki 118 Tochinoshin 122 Takarafuji 117 Aran 118 Aoiyama 121 Toyonoshima 124

Shohozan 120 Takayasu 122 Yoshikaze 117 Takekaze 114 Fujiazuma 112 Jokoryu 116

Tokitenku 118 Sadanofuji 110 Kyokutenho 121 Ikioi 119 Chiyotairyu 120 Toyohibiki 120

Shotenro 114 Gagamaru 119 Wakanosato 105 Kyokushuho 98 Daido 114 Masunoyama 117

Kaisei 118 Chiyootori 93 Chiyonokuni 95 Homarefuji 92 Ayumaryu 91 Daikiho 90

GOOD LUCK !

Edited by Andonishiki
  • Like 4

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PLS USE

SCS2013@LIVE.COM

thanks

Edited by Andonishiki

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first status update as of Wednesday 5pm, Tokio time

10 player have submitted their teams

that's a good start, but awaiting many more !!

I plan to send our the first batch of checks and confirmation mails within the next 8 hours

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I've made a translation of your topic and posted it on french Info-Sumo forum. (here) :-)

If it can bring more players. ;-)

  • Like 1

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merci beaucoup, Sakana-san.

one Frenchie already sent his/her team, malheureusement containing only 4 rikishi.....

ce ne marche pas :-((

There must be 5 (FIVE = CINQ) rikishi in each team as minimum, s'il vous plaît.

looking fw to at least 30 participants, after the second basho a banzuke, promotion & demotion rules etc. will follow.

and... probably also web automation, Entry page in 日本語 and super banzuke points.... so DON'T MISS OUT

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thanks a lot Andonishiki-san for reviving this game. Although i was absent for ages from Sumo-gaming this was one of my favourite ones. (In jonokuchi...)

entry sent ... awaiting for my mediocre results in 2 weeks time.

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well .... entry not sent after all.

i am getting this message from gmail:

Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:

SCS2013@HOTMAIL.COM

Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain hotmail.com bymx2.hotmail.com. [65.54.188.110].

The error that the other server returned was:
550 Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable

Edited by aderechelsea

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Adere' : Andonishiki forgot to fix the first post, but the available e-mail is : SCS2013@LIVE.COM

:-)

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Sure, you post this just 2 days after I purge SCS from my sumogames prep spreadsheets... Maybe next basho.

There must be 5 (FIVE = CINQ) rikishi in each team as minimum, s'il vous plaît.

new rule? I don't recall this one before...

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Sure, you post this just 2 days after I purge SCS from my sumogames prep spreadsheets... Maybe next basho.

There must be 5 (FIVE = CINQ) rikishi in each team as minimum, s'il vous plaît.

new rule? I don't recall this one before...

Surely it was not there, good old Benderdurono often had much fewer rikishi on his squad -

http://strongoak.net/salarysumo/picks.php?uname=Benderdurono

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Terribly sorry.... microsoft seems to terminate hotmail addresses.

Oh, I'm hoping to keep my mailbox then. :-S

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update - got about 30 entries so far, spreadsheet preparation is ongoing.

@ nomadwolf

Yes, the minimum of five rikishi in one team is a new rule, which -so far- I received mostly positive feedback on.

hope, you find new space on your sumogame prep spreadsheet (fantastic idea, by the way) to add salary cup in July.

@ sakana: thanks for helping out - yes, the correct mail address is

SCS2013@LIVE.COM

Reminder: Deadline in 10 hours - 15:00 Tokyo time !!

Edited by Andonishiki

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Yes, the minimum of five rikishi in one team is a new rule, which -so far- I received mostly positive feedback on.

Definitely no positive feedback from me.... I told you that I don't like this restriction..... Nevertheless, thanks a lot for your efforts to revive this great game.

Ganzohnesushi

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Finally, the spreadsheet is done - thanks also to kamogawa.

We have 42 active players, perfect for a makuuchi division. NICE !!

Some interesting stats:

- average amount of Yen spent: 985,24 Yen

- number of players who spent exactly 1000 Yen: six

- lowest amount of Yen spent: 912 Yen only

- number of players with the minimum of five rikishi: 24 !!

- number of players chosing Hakuho: 25 ! (all on position #1)

- number of players chosing Harumafuji: two only

- number of players chosing Baruto: 20

- Not popular rikishi: Kotooshu, Kotoshogiku, Kitataiki, Takarafuji, Aran, Shotenro

Conclusions:

Hakuho seems still too cheap at 466 Yen.

Still it's more popular to chose expensive rikishi with higher rank instead of forming a larger team of 7-10 rikishi.

We'll see how it goes over the basho, I'm planning to post a first result update after day 3.

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All the teams, sorted by least number of Yen are listed below.

Please have a quick look at your own team to doublecheck.

Even though kamogawa & me tried to work very carefully, no gurantees for typos

Shikona Yen total

Mariohana 912 Hakuho Gagamaru Chiyootori Jokoryu Kaisei

Shiyonofuji 924 Hakuho Baruto Gagamaru Chiyootori Daikiho

Ganzohnesushi 924 Hakuho Myogiryu Chiyotairyu Daikiho Jokoryu

Marushiki 950 Hakuho Okinoumi Yoshikaze Ikioi Kaisei

Gawasukotto 954 Hakuho Baruto Tochinoshin Ikioi Azumaryu

Torafuji 967 Hakuho Toyonoshima Myogiryu Aminishiki Gagamaru

Kotononami 972 Chiyotairyu Takayasu Myogiryu Ikioi Toyonoshima Masunoyama Shohozan Kaisei

Fuheika 976 Hakuho Baruto Jokoryu Chiyotairyu Kaisei

Flohru 982 Kisenosato Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Daikiho Jokoryu Kyokushuho Chiyootori Chiyonokuni

Sebunshu 983 Hakuho Ikioi Toyonoshima Baruto Kaisei

Kitakachiyama 983 Hakuho Baruto Chiyotairyu Ikioi Takayasu

Jejima 984 Hakuho Goeido Chiyotairyu Kaisei Gagamaru

Kaiowaka 985 Hakuho Goeido Shohozan Chiyotairyu Kaisei

Bunijiman 985 Hakuho Goeido Kaisei Kyokutenho Ikioi

kamogawa 987 Kisenosato Okinoumi Chiyonokuni Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Jokoryu Baruto

chishafuwaku 989 Chiyotairyu Tochiozan Masunoyama Baruto Myogiryu Toyohibiki Chiyonokuni Wakanosato

Doitsuyama 991 Hakuho Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Shohozan Goeido

Randomitsuki 992 Hakuho Baruto Aminishiki Toyonoshima Shohozan

kuroimori 993 Hakuho Baruto Myogiryu Takayasu Masunoyama

Tikozan 994 Baruto Kaisei Tochiozan Kotoshogiku Tokitenku Gagamaru Ikioi

Zenjimoto 995 Baruto Goeido Kyokutenho Gagamaru Jokoryu Kyokushuho Ikioi Wakanosato

Gaijingai 995 Hakuho Toyonoshima Gagamaru Chiyonokuni Chiyootori Kyokushuho

mischashimaru 996 Hakuho Baruto Toyonoshima Kaisei Myogiryu

Ruziklao 996 Hakuho Baruto Goeido Kaisei Chiyonokuni

Konosato 996 Hakuho Kaisei Toyonoshima Myogiryu Baruto

Pandaazuma 996 Hakuho Baruto Goeido Kaisei Chiyonokuni

Vikanohara 997 Baruto Goeido Shohozan Toyonoshima Chiyotairyu Myogiryu Chiyootori Azumaryu

Mmikasazuma 997 Kisenosato Goeido Myogiryu Toyonoshima Ikioi Yoshikaze Kyokushuho

aderechelseamaru 997 Kisenosato Chiyotairyu Kyokutenho Daikiho Takayasu Chiyonokuni Kyokushuho Wakanosato

Kaiomitsuki 997 Harumafuji Baruto Goeido Gagamaru Toyonoshima

Andonishiki 998 Gagamaru Baruto Chiyotairyu Ikioi Aoiyama Masunoyama Daido Myogiryu

Holleshoryu 998 Hakuho Baruto Chiyotairyu Toyonoshima Myogiryu

Gibuten 998 Hakuho Kisenosato Kyokushuho Chiyonokuni Chiyootori

Fuseigou 999 Hakuho Shohozan Kaisei Azumaryu Homarefuji Fujiazuma

Tosahayate 999 Baruto Goeido Toyonoshima Jokoryu Myogiryu Chiyotairyu Kyokushuho Homarefuji

Yoohoo 999 Hakuho Jokoryu Homarefuji Yoshikaze Tokitenku Daikiho

Frinkanohana 1000 Hakuho Toyonoshima Aoiyama Baruto Takayasu

GONZABUROW 1000 Baruto Goeido Toyonoshima Kaisei Gagamaru Kyokushuho Myogiryu Homarefuji

Achiyama 1000 Kisenosato Goeido Ikioi Gagamaru Kaisei Chiyotairyu Masunoyama

ScreechingOwl 1000 Chiyotairyu Kisenosato Shohozan Kaisei Chiyootori Takayasu Daikiho Azumaryu

Neko 1000 Harumafuji Goeido Baruto Myogiryu Daido

Aoyume 1000 Azumaryu Chiyonokuni Chiyootori Daido Daikiho Fujiazuma Homarefuji Kyokushuho Sadanofuji Wakanosato

Note: Aoyume is a dummy, that chose the cheapest rikishi in alphabetic order to form a team of 10

Edited by Andonishiki

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Hakuho seems still too cheap at 466 Yen.

Still it's more popular to chose expensive rikishi with higher rank instead of forming a larger team of 7-10 rikishi.

I think the main reason why so few players use larger teams is not because of Hakuho's (or anybody else's) price, but because of the multipliers. The slots 8-10 (8+9+10 = 27) have as much power as the slots 1-7 (1+2+ ... +7=28). In other words, rikishi with a low multiplier do not have any significant impact on your outcome.

One way to circumvent this relatively easily would be to use higher multipliers, e.g. 15 for the top pick, 14 for the second rikishi etc.. Diminishing returns would not be so strong under this scenario. That being said, it's your game of course, and I am just happy to participate. :-)

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Yup, the "low slots are nearly worthless" issue has always been a bane of SCS. And it actually gets worse the lower down you go, just think of it as a stepwise process in which you decide whether to pay for one expensive-but-good rikishi or two cheap-but-mediocre ones, with all three having the same relative value (say, "expensive" costing 300 yen and bringing in 40 points, and "cheap" each costing 150 yen for 20 points).

In the best case scenario they all slot in at the end of the queue for the least overall loss, say E would be in slot 4 (multiplier 7), while C1 and C2 would be in slots 4 and 5 (average multiplier 6.5); in that case you'd have lost 20 points total and the cheap rikishi would need to score 8% (7/6.5) better to make up for the slot-splitting. The same scenario further down (e.g. slot 7 vs. slots 7 & 8) also costs 20 points total, but the cheap pair would now need to be 14% better (4/3.5) to compensate.

And most of the time you're not actually getting to do a two-for-one substitution at equal position, but further down - say, taking a rikishi out of slot 4 to add new ones at 6 and 7. In that case you're losing points on all interim slots as well: slot 4 is filled by the presumably worse rikishi originally in slot 5, slot 5 is filled by the even worse slot 6 rikishi, and the two new ones that go into slot 6 and 7 must now compensate for the shifting losses at slots 4 and 5 and for the splitting loss. It's rather difficult to find enough rikishi that actually provide sufficient value at low slots - they pretty much must be capable of achieving KK and be dirt cheap, not something you'll find too often. (And even if you think you have found such rikishi, much of the time you're probably wrong.)

Edited by Asashosakari

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For me, I usually go for the expensive ones in the top slots, but toward the bottom, I go for the cheapies... Even swapping a 8-winner (at 200 points) for 2 with 5 wins (at 100 each) is worthwhile for any slot above 3 points. i.e. 8 wins at 5 points ==> 120 pts. 5 wins @ 5 + 5 @ 4 ==> 75 + 60 = 135. (remember 3 points per win)

So, getting 2 rikishi to be 8% better than the original 1 is not that difficult.

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For me, I usually go for the expensive ones in the top slots, but toward the bottom, I go for the cheapies... Even swapping a 8-winner (at 200 points) for 2 with 5 wins (at 100 each) is worthwhile for any slot above 3 points. i.e. 8 wins at 5 points ==> 120 pts. 5 wins @ 5 + 5 @ 4 ==> 75 + 60 = 135. (remember 3 points per win)

So, getting 2 rikishi to be 8% better than the original 1 is not that difficult.

That's because somebody expected to deliver only 24 points for 200 yen isn't a terribly good pick in the first place. ;-) A 200-yen guy really should be a good bet to bring in 30+ points to be worth his price. (All under the old system, of course.) I don't think I ever picked a mere "should achieve KK but not much more" rikishi for more than 130 yen or so - try to replace that one at favourable value, given that even the cheap rikishi often came in at 80+ yen.

Edit: Actually, that points to another issue with the old pricing - too many rikishi at prices of 150+ who were very unlikely to provide good value more often than maybe once a year (which nevertheless was often enough to drive up their price that high in the first place, making them perpetually bad bets).

Edited by Asashosakari

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Great discussion ! this is a extremely helpful way to create the most exciting game out of the idea of Salary Cup.

Pls add your ideas ! I'm fascinated by the intelligence of many forum participants in terms of statistics & probabilities.

Here are the first results after three days.... doesn't really have a lot of meaning, but anyway.

So far, those players who chose more than 5 rikishi are in the upper half.

Myogiryu's kinboshi earned an extra 8 points.

Strangely someone very unexpected is leading the pack:

Rank Shikona points

1 Andonishiki 108

2 Mmikasazuma 103

3 Achiyama 101

4 Gaijingai 100

5 Gibuten 99

6 GONZABUROW 95

7 Vikanohara 93

8 Frinkanohana 92

9 kuroimori 89

10 Tikozan 86

11 mischashimaru 85

12 Sebunshu 84

13 Kitakachiyama 84

14 Holleshoryu 84

15 Kotononami 83

16 Ruziklao 83

17 Pandaazuma 83

18 Konosato 82

19 Zenjimoto 81

20 Tosahayate 81

21 Kaiomitsuki 80

22 Flohru 79

23 Shiyonofuji 78

24 chishafuwaku 78

25 Aoyume 78

26 Torafuji 76

27 Jejima 76

28 Bunijiman 75

29 ScreechingOwl 75

30 Neko 75

31 Gawasukotto 74

32 Doitsuyama 74

33 aderechelseamaru 74

34 kamogawa 73

35 Fuseigou 71

36 Mariohana 70

37 Randomitsuki 68

38 Kaiowaka 63

39 Fuheika 61

40 Marushiki 58

41 Ganzohnesushi 55

42 Yoohoo 55

Next results should be posted after day 6 - stay tuned !

Edited by Andonishiki

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Terrible performance by my team so far...

But I also realize that Myogiru*s Kinboshi is worth almost nothing compared to an additional win on slot 9. It is 8 points vs. 27 points, i.e. the Kinboshi does not even compensate 0,3 wins.... That is ridiculously low.

Let us assume the Kinboshi is rewarded with a Sansho this gives an additional 12 points only. These 20 points in total are still less worth than 0,75 wins. Conclusion: M1 Myogiryu finishing 8-7 and decorated with Kinboshi and Sansho is less useful than any M15 Rikishi who achieves a simple 9-6. From that perspective it doesn't make sense to put M1-M3 Rikishi in high points anymore.

Ganzohnesushi

Edited by Ganzohnesushi

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Wait - there must be a mistake here, or? There used to be huge changes on day 15 in Salary Cup when the bonus points were awarded. Is this really an intended rule change or just an error in the example calculations above? I certainly hope the latter, because, as you said, the bonus points are ridiculously low this way, reducing it to wins only basically. Please clarify.

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I fear it is reduced to wins only. Yusho gives 40 points, Jun-Yusho 24 points irrespective of number of wins and irrespective in which slot your Rikishi is placed. Beside the number of wins having Yusho and/or Jun-Yusho winner in your team is not really rewarded in the new system.

As much as I like to see the game revived, I have to ask Ando whether he thinks all the rule changes are really conducive. From my point of view this is a step in the totally wrong direction as this (formerly brilliant) game would be reduced to another simple game where only the number of wins are counted.

Ganzohnesushi

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