Hatsu Basho 2013 - Discussion Thread

[Orion 431]

Amazing Aminishiki!

Like no other he has the skill to make his opponents look so stupid

It didn't take any skill to make Aoiyama look stupid recently.

Yes, I'm afraid so. I've been rooting for Aoiyama since his shindeshi days, and have especially tried to encourage him since the tragic death of his first master -- but today he was all thrust and no backup. Fortunately I have always been a fan of Aminishiki too, though he's never known it ...

Orion, back from a day at the races and a Senshuraku party.... :-)

[Kintamayama 44,275]

Kotoshogiku vs. Kakuryu made me laugh.

I'm signing up to "the other side" and will immediately start spewing rumors that every single bout is legit.

Very loudly...

[yorikiried by fate 1,987]

Why would you do that?

[rzombie1988 157]

I reviewed the final day of the tournament with pics/gifs/final standings and final thoughts here:

http://prowresblog.blogspot.com/2013/01/sumo-january-hatsu-basho-day-15-final.html

Make sure to check out Takanoyama's match today. That was some excellent sumo.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Orion, back from a day at the races and a Senshuraku party.... :-)

Must be nice. Edited January 27, 2013 by Masumasumasu

[Treblemaker 254]

I enjoyed this basho. Good, solid bouts, a few surprises...

They should do this more often. Maybe every other month?

[Gernobono 453]

Make sure to check out Takanoyama's match today. That was some excellent sumo.

that might have been "excellent", but it definitely was not "sumo"

[Nabuko 11]

I enjoyed this basho. Good, solid bouts, a few surprises...

They should do this more often. Maybe every other month?

Quite good basho!

[Yubinhaad 11,506]

I thought this was a very good start to the sumo year. It was a real "story basho", what with Baruto trying to get his Ozeki rank back, the struggles of Miyabiyama and Takamisakari, the battle between the two Yokozuna and the swansong of the great Kasachikara. And of course, on the sad side, there was the passing of Taiho.

On the retirement front, from the lower divisions I also hear Teruazuma, Onoyama and Tosahayate have called it a day. Teruazuma made his debut in March 1992, same basho as Kyokutenho and Wakanosato. Onoyama, the longest-serving rikishi from Onomatsu-beya, debuted in 1996 and Tosahayate in 2005.

[Kintamayama 44,275]

Why would you do that?

Revenge, of course.

[shumitto 418]

Kotoshogiku vs. Kakuryu made me laugh.

You have seen much worse, I guess. Just one horrible example I've been able to find, out of some dozens.

(skip to 1:50 for the travesty; and yes, it was recorded from the TV with a camera)

In perspective, today's bout had the veneer of legitimacy, which is the best we can get. The other 'suspect' bouts in Makuuchi I deemed ok, by the way.

Edited January 27, 2013 by shumitto

[Asojima 2,870]

You have seen much worse, I guess. Just one horrible example I've been able to find, out of some dozens.

This took place on senshuraku in the middle of Kaio's kotenage binge when he was jeopardizing careers by dislocating shoulders and elbows. Kotomitsugi had nothing to gain and a career to lose. He, like many others, took a dive when caught in a Kaio kotenage.

[yorikiried by fate 1,987]

Let's leave it at that. I was pointing out the obvious, which is somewhat insulting everyone's intellect and rather self-indulgent. So forgive me, as I will might shut up about these things for something like six weeks.

[Treblemaker 254]

I went back and viewed the videos for Day 15 (just in case I missed something) and guess what I noticed? Almost everyone who really needed a win (7-7 rikishi, needy Ozeki like Geeku, etc) got a win.

Now, I'm NOT saying that there's conspiracies, how could I? The thought never occurs to me. (Well, not while I'm sleeping, anyway.) And it might just be many a case of TESTOSERONE talking (Yoshikaze, etc) or rampant adrenalin, cheap booze or gefilte fish. Whatever it is, most guys in need of a KK got it. And in most cases, it didn't look easy. So, some great bouts by some desperate people resulting in winning records. Or some pre-determined cash-exchange dances?

Now I'm not accusing anyone of pulling a Mulligan, but it was one of those thing that make you go, "Hmmmmmmmmmmm...".

And that might not have been the best HF-Hak bout ever. I quite believe that Hakuho could have had him. But then, HF had been in a league all his own this whole two weeks. I'm just a little bothered by Hak's loss in this. Either HF was indeed too much to handle by everyone, including Hak. (And this could easily be legit and it certainly seemed that way.) OR, Hak was somewhat easily overwhelmed by a good, but tired HF. Which leads me to think that Hak is beginning to lose whatever edge he once had, mental or physical, that gave him the extra bit of whatever...

It might not seem like much now, but that dance today might mark the start of Hak's downhill slope. Out of sentimentality, I'll be rooting for him in March.

[Fukurou 534]

I went back and viewed the videos for Day 15 (just in case I missed something) and guess what I noticed? Almost everyone who really needed a win (7-7 rikishi, needy Ozeki like Geeku, etc) got a win.

Now, I'm NOT saying that there's conspiracies, how could I? The thought never occurs to me. (Well, not while I'm sleeping, anyway.) And it might just be many a case of TESTOSERONE talking (Yoshikaze, etc) or rampant adrenalin, cheap booze or gefilte fish. Whatever it is, most guys in need of a KK got it. And in most cases, it didn't look easy. So, some great bouts by some desperate people resulting in winning records. Or some pre-determined cash-exchange dances?

Now I'm not accusing anyone of pulling a Mulligan, but it was one of those thing that make you go, "Hmmmmmmmmmmm...".

If you want something to really make yourself go "Hmmm" go check the historical stats for the same subject.

In other words, whether it's due to match scheduling by the kyokai, rikishi trying harder with a KK on the line, lower ranked rikishi showing deference to their seniors, match fixing, or some other aspect, the same result has been happening fairly consistently for years.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Fukurou

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Well, Hakuho turns 28 next month and he's been a sanyaku presence for 8 years now. Kaio excepted, nobody really has lasted more than http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=rikishi&having=30&form1_rank=Y-K&form1_year=1958-now'>10 years at that level, so it wouldn't be the most outrageous proposition that Hak is beginning to decline now.

And I know I've posted this before, but it's always good to remember history isn't on his side even among his equals:

Taiho - Y promotion at 21y 4m; 26th yusho at 27y 4m old (23 yusho in 36 Y basho); won another 6 after that (in 22 basho) but failed to complete 10 of the other 16 tournaments; intai at 30y 11m

Kitanoumi - Y promotion at 21y 2m; 22nd yusho at 28y 0m (20 yusho in 41 Y basho); only 2 more yusho afterwards (in 22 basho), failed to complete 12 of the other 20; intai at 31y 8m

Takanohana - Y promotion at 22y 3m; 20th yusho at 26y 1m (13 yusho in 23 Y basho); won 2 more in the next 16 basho (failed to complete 5), then had that 7-basho absence after which he completed just one more basho; intai at 30y 5m although for all intents he was done by 28y 9m

Asashoryu - Y promotion at 22y 4m; 21st yusho at 26y 10m (19 yusho in 27 Y basho), then got the two-basho suspension; won another 4 yusho after that (in 13 basho), but also failed to complete 3 tournaments and scored below 12 wins in another 4; intai at 29y 4m - decline phase cut short by his forced intai, but I doubt he would have lasted more than another ~10 basho on the merits, if that

[shumitto 418]

While we are on Hakuho's numbers, I would like throw some stats.

2009.01 - 2010.11 (180 bouts/ 8 losses) Win % 95.56

2011.01 - 2013.01 (180 bouts/ 26 losses) Win % 85.56

This decline is going on for some time now, and if we take those examples as a any kind of reference, it will start to become more pronounced in the next 1,5 years or so.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

Talking about Hakuho's decline, I noticed that he seems to avoid getting a grip on the mawashi recently. Even his yorikiri wins look rather erratic. Might be some trouble with his wrists or the like.

[Tsubame 355]

For me it is ok, when Hakuho will decline soon. He had definitely his share of yushos too be considered as a great yokozuna. Now it's time for the next generation. Maybe it is Harumafuji or Kotoshogiku and Kisenosato (if both become a little bit better) and not forgeting hopeful sekitori like Myogiryu or Chiyotairyu or Jokoryu.

I will be please if we see in the future NOT again a sekitori with a subscription to the yusho ;)

[Asashosakari 18,670]

Talking about Hakuho's decline, I noticed that he seems to avoid getting a grip on the mawashi recently. Even his yorikiri wins look rather erratic. Might be some trouble with his wrists or the like.

We haven't heard much about it lately, but back in 2011 after his ultra-dominant phase ended, no between-basho period seemed to go by without at least one keiko report citing elbow issues, though usually downplayed by Hakuho himself. I do suspect there have been at least a couple of basho in the last few years in which he would have dropped out if he hadn't been the only yokozuna.

[Kuroyama 715]

While we are on Hakuho's numbers, I would like throw some stats.

2009.01 - 2010.11 (180 bouts/ 8 losses) Win % 95.56

2011.01 - 2013.01 (180 bouts/ 26 losses) Win % 85.56

This decline is going on for some time now, and if we take those examples as a any kind of reference, it will start to become more pronounced in the next 1,5 years or so.

It goes to show how dominant he has been, that what for him is a decline is a win ratio most rikishi would give their eyeteeth to have at their peak.

[Bugman 384]

Even if Hak is in decline i can't see him falling any lower than second place in the overall scheme of things, the gap between the two Yokozuna and everyone else seems to be quite pronounced, at least to me.

[Igordemorais 75]

It is pronounced enough that a victory by Harumafuji is a slight surprise and a victory by anyone else other than the Yokozuna is considered a massive upset

[Yubinhaad 11,506]

Picture assortment for the Hatsu basho.

Yokozuna stuff - Double vision at the Meiji shrine; yusho posters; Harumafuji at another shrine; the YDC Soken; Hakuho alone at asageiko:

The bout all none of you have been waiting for - Hakuho vs. The Rock:

(I think this was the Kyokugen sports carnival thing before the basho)

Big picture of a small man:

Say It With Flours - mochitsuki fun at Miyagino-beya:

Kokonoe-oyakata, Toyonoshima, Miyabiyama and Goeido at the Shinjuku Chanko event:

Snowmen:

The Kokugikan before the day's action starts:

Bouts - heavy on Takamisakari of course, but kicking off with Hakuho eyeing the money after Myogiryu's kinboshi:

V for Victory and the PM's Cup:

Harumafuji's biggest improvement is his Naramisugi impression, now scoring 9.2 from the Russian judge!

Kasachikara outside the Kokugikan on Day 13, following the final bout of his 27-year career. (Sad goodbyes...)

Satonofuji, Harumafuji, Gyoji Matsuri:

Takayasu with his sansho trophy and plaque:

=====================

Edited February 1, 2013 by Yubinhaad