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Kyushu Basho 2012 Discussion Thread

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Let me start by saying that between Kakuryu and Kotoshogiku I'd root for the Kak everytime.

However, I do have to point out that when you get the first full house of the basho, and you are in the bout of the day against a local boy, henka-ing your way to a win is a very bad idea. Nothing wrong with winning, but please, give the local crowd a show...

I think Kakuryu made a choice that hurt sumo just a little bit more today...

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I think Kakuryu made a choice that hurt sumo just a little bit more today...

I know for a fact (chatting with the likes of ex-Asanowaka and reading the papers..) that henkaing (unless you are Aran/Takekaze) is not a strategy but an instinct you go with when you see an opening. The higher you are ranked and with the experience, you can control the instinct, but sometimes it just slips. I'm pretty sure Izutsu came down on Kakuryuu like a truck afterwards.

Edited by Kintamayama
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"It's my fault for falling for it, but still, it's too bad..," said Kotoshougiku diplomatically of his loss. Papers say the crowd loudly booed Kakuryuu.

Edited by Kintamayama

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I am totally shocked by Kaka-ryu's despicable Henka.

Kotoshogiku looked at him as though he wanted to say, "what did I ever do to you?"

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I'm not the biggest Geeku fan, and I think The Kak is a talented athlete, but, like, wow.... I can't remember a bout between two Ozeki where one pulls a lightning henka like that.

Having said that, and knowing that there are a few guys who are dangerously capable of anything at any time (Aminishiki, Aran among others), Geeku should have had his head up. Then again, I guess you don't expect that from another Ozeki...

The Shortest Bout of the evening was wrong on so many levels....

In other news, Goeido is really on fire.

And a hellofa throw by Hak. In fact, I think it was a vicious and premeditated act of sadistic punishment that bordered on the desire to maim, injure and hurt also. And bruise, as well. I think Hak should retire in disgrace. Such behaviour denigrades the fine, upstanding hinkaku that is so definitely shown by all the other non-offenders. (Like Kak. *Ahem* *Cough*. ...)

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It was wrong for Kakuryu to henka Kotoshogiku because he was kadoban. The two ozeki are about evenly matched: it was 12-10 in Kotoshogiku's favour before yesterday. That's only the second henka by Kakuryu this year that I can remember, so he's cut down on his rate, but the circumstances surrounding yesterday's henka leave a bad taste.

On the plus side, it should be noted that Kotooshu, who used to henka too often, hasn't made even one henka in the last couple of years. Kotooshu receives a lot of criticism, some of it justified, but certainly deserves praise on this issue.

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The results of day 7 were the absolute worst possible for my taste. I always root for "team Japan", and besides Goeido they took a hell of a hit today. The reason I support the japanese rikishi is twofold: firstly I always root for the underdogs, and in the current sumo climate, the japs are the clear underdogs.Secondly, I am of the rather naive opinion that having successful japanese rikishi would help lift ozumo out of it's current sad state.

And what the hell was Kakuryu thinking? I know that he isn't responsible for the wellbeing and future of ozumo, but the only thing this basho had going for it spectatorwise, was the success of the home favorite Kotoshogiku. So why the hell pull that henka and rob the spectators? Idiotic...

Edited by Kaioshoryu

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I must be dreaming because on the other thread when I complained about how Henka sucks the energy out of the stadium, every one was bleating about how the other rikishi should be expecting it, its the other rikishi's fault they fell for it blah blah blah. Now here you all are whining about the exact same thing. You think all those people paid to see a henka. Daylight robbery. I dont have a problem when smaller rikishi avoid head on contact but henka is an abomination. Should be banned period.

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I must be dreaming because on the other thread when I complained about how Henka sucks the energy out of the stadium, every one was bleating about how the other rikishi should be expecting it, its the other rikishi's fault they fell for it blah blah blah. Now here you all are whining about the exact same thing. You think all those people paid to see a henka. Daylight robbery. I dont have a problem when smaller rikishi avoid head on contact but henka is an abomination. Should be banned period.

You are dreaming for sure. We're complaining about this particular henka because:

A. It happened in a bout between 2 Ozeki.

B. One of them is kadoban

C. This guy in particular should know better.

D. The whining is specific. No generalizations about henka as a tactic.

E. Do you not see the subtle difference?

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Why should there be other rules when an Ozeki is kadoban? They are not supposed to help each other, are they? ;-)

Well it was a bloody henka and against my second favourite grrrrrrr. He grinned at me when he throw the salt the last time, so I knew it would happen ... tzetzetze.. He apologized so i guess Tochiozan will be safe today ;-).

And by the way, Kotoshogiku isn't as much the crowd favourite. There usually is a lot more cheering for Shohozan and Homasho. During the preparation of Kotoshogiku's bout it was awesome quiet for a while.

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"Oops, I did it again- that is my feeling..It's inexcusable.." said Kakuryuu later today. "The people who came today were left unfulfilled.." added Kitanoumi Rijicho.

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The results of day 7 were the absolute worst possible for my taste. I always root for "team Japan", and besides Goeido they took a hell of a hit today. The reason I support the japanese rikishi is twofold: firstly I always root for the underdogs, and in the current sumo climate, the japs are the clear underdogs.Secondly, I am of the rather naive opinion that having successful japanese rikishi would help lift ozumo out of it's current sad state.

And what the hell was Kakuryu thinking? I know that he isn't responsible for the wellbeing and future of ozumo, but the only thing this basho had going for it spectatorwise, was the success of the home favorite Kotoshogiku. So why the hell pull that henka and rob the spectators? Idiotic...

Why on Earth would Kakuryu think about the home favorite or the spectators? He's up there to get a win, nothing else. It was an ugly win, in my opinion, but when memories fade and records stand it will still be a white mark in his CV.

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Holy crap, they're starting the intra-ozeki bouts tomorrow. First time before nakabi since Kyushu 2000.

And the first time since Aki 1987 that two consecutive Ozeki match-ups happened till day 7.

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I must be dreaming because on the other thread when I complained about how Henka sucks the energy out of the stadium, every one was bleating about how the other rikishi should be expecting it, its the other rikishi's fault they fell for it blah blah blah. Now here you all are whining about the exact same thing. You think all those people paid to see a henka. Daylight robbery. I dont have a problem when smaller rikishi avoid head on contact but henka is an abomination. Should be banned period.

You are dreaming for sure. We're complaining about this particular henka because:

A. It happened in a bout between 2 Ozeki.

B. One of them is kadoban

C. This guy in particular should know better.

D. The whining is specific. No generalizations about henka as a tactic.

E. Do you not see the subtle difference?

I can't stand these double standards. If you are complaining about a particular henka but not whining against the tactic in general this is a paradox to me. It's like turning a blind eye on rikishi punching each other in the face in Juryo, but aaah, if an Ozeki does it, it is a problem. Time to chose a side - if henka in juryo is not a problem to you, it can't be a problem for the Ozeki as well. After all, a Henka in juryo today might lead you to Ozeki tomorrow, so I can't see how one thing is different from the other!

Edited by botev1921
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I must be dreaming because on the other thread when I complained about how Henka sucks the energy out of the stadium, every one was bleating about how the other rikishi should be expecting it, its the other rikishi's fault they fell for it blah blah blah. Now here you all are whining about the exact same thing. You think all those people paid to see a henka. Daylight robbery. I dont have a problem when smaller rikishi avoid head on contact but henka is an abomination. Should be banned period.

You are dreaming for sure. We're complaining about this particular henka because:

A. It happened in a bout between 2 Ozeki.

B. One of them is kadoban

C. This guy in particular should know better.

D. The whining is specific. No generalizations about henka as a tactic.

E. Do you not see the subtle difference?

I can't stand these double standards. If you are complaining about a particular henka but not whining against the tactic in general this is a paradox to me. It's like turning a blind eye on rikishi punching each other in the face in Juryo, but aaah, if an Ozeki does it, it is a problem. Time to chose a side - if henka in juryo is not a problem to you, it can't be a problem for the Ozeki as well. After all, a Henka in juryo today might lead you to Ozeki tomorrow, so I can't see how one thing is different from the other!

If multiple standards according to rank is something you can't stand, you are probably following the wrong sport. Sumo is all about change based on rank... Changes in living conditions, obligations, schedule of fighting and, of course, expectations on and off the dohyo. An Ozeki is expected to behave in a different way compared to a maegashira (let alone a juryo rikishi) and is accorded certain privileges in return. Just look at the constant scrutiny under which all the yokozuna live, and you'll understand my point.

Remember, sumo "society" has a feudal structure. As you become a "noble", you are afforded more luxury and rights, but you also get many more restrictions and obligations compared to the "peasants" or the "minor nobility".

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I must be dreaming because on the other thread when I complained about how Henka sucks the energy out of the stadium, every one was bleating about how the other rikishi should be expecting it, its the other rikishi's fault they fell for it blah blah blah. Now here you all are whining about the exact same thing. You think all those people paid to see a henka. Daylight robbery. I dont have a problem when smaller rikishi avoid head on contact but henka is an abomination. Should be banned period.

You are dreaming for sure. We're complaining about this particular henka because:

A. It happened in a bout between 2 Ozeki.

B. One of them is kadoban

C. This guy in particular should know better.

D. The whining is specific. No generalizations about henka as a tactic.

E. Do you not see the subtle difference?

I can't stand these double standards. If you are complaining about a particular henka but not whining against the tactic in general this is a paradox to me. It's like turning a blind eye on rikishi punching each other in the face in Juryo, but aaah, if an Ozeki does it, it is a problem. Time to chose a side - if henka in juryo is not a problem to you, it can't be a problem for the Ozeki as well. After all, a Henka in juryo today might lead you to Ozeki tomorrow, so I can't see how one thing is different from the other!

I don't like to see a henka every, period, but it's not exactly a double standard to complain about it being done to a kadoban ozeki, it's a recognition that some bouts are more important than other bouts. Imagine if Hakuho's 63 bout winning streak were ended by a henka. I think most people would have felt cheated. The same feeling prevails if a yusho is decided by a henka. If something important is on the line it shouldn't be decided by a henka.

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I always have to laugh when these rikishi come out and say how ashamed they are for pulling a henka. I can't stand the tactic, or the false apology.

However good for Aran, I definitely noticed the improvement in his fighting spirit! Ganbatte!

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Kotoshogiku is guilty of madly charging ahead at tachiai without even looking where he is going on occasion. This was one of those occasions, and he got caught out...plain and simple.

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Imagine if Hakuho's 63 bout winning streak were ended by a henka.

Actually, I expected it to end that way.... from the likes of Aminishiki or Tokitenku.

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Imagine if Hakuho's 63 bout winning streak were ended by a henka.

Actually, I expected it to end that way.... from the likes of Aminishiki or Tokitenku.

Imagine if Hakuho's tsuna run had gotten started with a henka...

Edited by Kuroyama
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