Kyushu Basho 2012 Discussion Thread

[Schimpan-se 0]

Hakuho looked utterly tired. It was very curious.

[IzumoTaisha 2]

Was not at any moment expecting to see both Yokozuna lose on the same day. Harumafuji must be kicking himself at missing the opportunity to close the gap. He'll have to do it for himself on day 15 for a hope now I'd guess.

[Kintamayama 45,704]

But what I REALLY don't understand is how that bout ended. What the hell? It looked as if Hakuho either gave up at the edge, or misjudged where it was and thought he was out prematurely. I'm going to have to re-watch it when Kinta puts the video up.

Normal- he knew it was over. There's the certain second when you know that's it.

[Igordemorais 75]

Ho damn! Both Yokozunas losing to kadoban Ozeki!!!!

And Goeido losing to Tochiozan!

WTF is wrong with the world!

War Kotooshu! :D

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

Ho damn! Both Yokozunas losing to kadoban Ozeki!!!!

Well, the Yokozuna are just special Ozeki after all, aren't they?

And everything stays so exiting. And stuff.

[IzumoTaisha 2]

I can smell a playoff coming our way. Wouldn't it be great if both Yokozuna tripped up again and Chiyotairyu coasted through to win the whole thing!

[Peeter 15]

I can smell a playoff coming our way. Wouldn't it be great if both Yokozuna tripped up again and Chiyotairyu coasted through to win the whole thing!

Mei Gets Uin? Two Yokozuna scalps are too much for him, or how are pairs in playoff with 3 wrestlers?. Don't mention 3 wins last days to him...

[Andreas21 196]

The Fukuoka dohyo has been getting more slippery in the last 2 days.

Especially the west side, looking at the Meagashira results today.

[salle 11]

Kotooshu's win today was very pleasing to watch. His left uwate was proved to be still very dangerous, but even more important he overmatched one of the main weapons of Hakuho - patience. The Yokozuna won so many bouts by patiently absorbing and blocking any attempts while waiting for his aite to get out of breath or make mistake before he makes his winning move. Not this time. It must be very positive feeling to escape kadoban with such win. I really hope Kotooshu is not going to retire any soon, but if he has such plans today is perfect time to do it with dignity.

[Igordemorais 75]

People keep saying Kotooshu should retire all the time. I hope this shuts them the hell up.

[Kaioshoryu 64]

Now, I am one of the first to class the ST conspiracy theories as baloney, but I have to say that the Hakuho-Kotooshu bout looked weird to me... Hakuho looked uninterested and totally devoid of resistance.

Could someone with more knowledge on sumo than me please convince me otherwise?

[Igordemorais 75]

I don't think knowledge of sumo is required: over the course of 15 fights with 15 different opponents with different fighting styles, weight and height, plus the low margin for error that we find in sumo, it is absolutely expected for a rikishi to be surprised or defeated in any number of ways.

Kotooshu is arguably as strong as Hakuho, he played a patient game, he caught a favorable grip right in the beginning, and his reach is much greater than Hakuho`s.

Last but not least a human body is not a machine and there are days, especially in a pro-athlete`s life, when your body and mind are exhausted, slower, or lacking in synchronicity. Biorhythm and all that.

[Kintamayama 45,704]

Now, I am one of the first to class the ST conspiracy theories as baloney, but I have to say that the Hakuho-Kotooshu bout looked weird to me... Hakuho looked uninterested and totally devoid of resistance.

Could someone with more knowledge on sumo than me please convince me otherwise?

Kotooushuu kept him at bay and half sideways most of the bout and did not make a mistake. If you still think the higher ranked guy always has to win or else there's a conspiracy, then you're on the wrong side of the moon, sir..

And Hakuhou always looks disinterested-a Yokozuna is SUPPOSED to look like that. Devoid of resistance? About a minute of resistance at least.. If he would have lost after 5 seconds, maybe you could have raised that question.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Kintamayama

[salle 11]

People keep saying Kotooshu should retire all the time. I hope this shuts them the hell up.

I didn't say he should retire and I am the last one to say that! It is the opposite. I'm very happy to see him finding enough spirit, strength, technique and stamina to beat yokozuna even if it is once in a while.

However age and injuries don't forgive and he is already at that stage of his career when any injury can become the decider.

[Doitsuyama 1,194]

Now, I am one of the first to class the ST conspiracy theories as baloney, but I have to say that the Hakuho-Kotooshu bout looked weird to me... Hakuho looked uninterested and totally devoid of resistance.

Could someone with more knowledge on sumo than me please convince me otherwise?

Like I wrote in my results posting, Kotooshu got Hakuho in a bad position, holding him sideways right from the start. Watch the bout again, then you'll see that Hakuho tried the whole time to get around but Kotooshu wouldn't let him which is why they rotated all the time. Actually, surviving for so long in this stance makes it quite insulting from you to state that Hakuho was devoid of resistance.

[Kaioshoryu 64]

I didn't mean for my post to be insulting, I guess the conspiracy theories are getting to me... Thanks Kinta and Doitsu for your answers!

[Jakusotsu 6,063]

Judging from the way he was gently walked out of the dohyo the last 3 days, I'd say Daido is set to set a record of losses-by-yorikiri-in-one-basho if he doesn't go kyujo.

Takekaze was very likely to cancel that attempt, and cancel he did. Now Daido can only pull even with 10:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&group_by2=rikishi1&having=10&kimarite=66&onlyl1=on

[Kintamayama 45,704]

I didn't mean for my post to be insulting, I guess the conspiracy theories are getting to me... Thanks Kinta and Doitsu for your answers!

Geez-uncannily identical answers we gave, almost to the T..

[Andreas21 196]

Now, I am one of the first to class the ST conspiracy theories as baloney, but I have to say that the Hakuho-Kotooshu bout looked weird to me... Hakuho looked uninterested and totally devoid of resistance.

Simply, if a bout is staged it is made up to look convincing. This one looked strange. Possible motivation is weak: Kotooshu needed only 1 out of 5 day to stay in the rank.

I just compared it to the January 2012 bout. Kotooshu used his long arms and his strength to attack Hakuho all the time, who resisted vigorously. It could be very good Sumo by the two of them, or it could be staged, which I don't think so.

This time it was totally different. Kotooshu had a superior uwate grip with the left, right from the beginning. In the first stage of the bout, Hakuho tried to improve the grip but failed. Then it stalled again and then Hakuho somehow gave up. Kotooshu was allowed to get a second grip with the right, and that should be fatal. But what is unclear to me, why did Kotooshu let go of his right hand. That was a great chance for Hakuho to come back in the bout and he did nothing and Koto pushed him out without much force.

[Kuroyama 715]

Oh, most of the bout looked fine to me. Given Osh's preference for throws, it was a *very* advantageous position, and it's a testament to Hak's sheer stability that it took him so long to make something of it. But it just kind of... petered out. Not much resistance put up at the end, and Hak *did* look tired.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Kuroyama

[Asashosakari 19,760]

Oh, most of the bout looked fine to me. Given Osh's preference for throws, it was a *very* advantageous position, and it's a testament to Hak's sheer stability that it took him so long to make some of it. But it just kind of... petered out. Not much resistance put up at the end, and Hak *did* look tired.

Let's not forget that the bout became somewhat less pressure for Hakuho courtesy of Harumafuji's loss right before it.

[Ack! 479]

I can smell a playoff coming our way. Wouldn't it be great if both Yokozuna tripped up again and Chiyotairyu coasted through to win the whole thing!

Mei Gets Uin? Two Yokozuna scalps are too much for him, or how are pairs in playoff with 3 wrestlers?. Don't mention 3 wins last days to him...

It's impressive that Chiyo is even in the equation for yusho. I wonder where he is likely to end up on the banzuke for the next tournament.

[Asashosakari 19,760]

I wonder where he is likely to end up on the banzuke for the next tournament.

That does kind of depend on whether he finishes 9-6 or 13-2...

[Bugman 384]

The only bout that looked a bit iffy to me was the Giku-Haru one, i'm not a Haru fan but i acknowledge his greatness and i'm having trouble believing that slip, still, all is possible, stranger things have happened etc, but i did feel that his reaction to his first loss looked very genuine, this time though very little expression, i of course start to run the risk of questioning all bouts if i keep thinking like this, so i won't :)

Edited November 22, 2012 by Bugman

[specialweek 2 136]

Terrific effort by Kotooshu but lets see if he can show it back-to-back. That is his problem. Can look superb one day and demolished by a lesser rank the next. May even relax now he has his 8. Hope I'm wrong.