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Zentoryu

Day 14 Makuuchi Torikumi

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Higashi        Nishi
Kobo        -- Oikari
Tamakasuga  -- Asanowaka
Aminishiki  -- Futeno
Harunoyama  -- Jumonji
Takanowaka  -- Toki
Kotoryu     -- Kinkaiyama
Kokkai      -- Kaiho
Hakuho      -- Kyokushuzan
Hayateumi   -- Iwakiyama
Kotonowaka  -- Dejima
Asasekiryu  -- Shimotori
Tosanoumi   -- Kakizoe
Tochinonada -- Takamisakari
Takekaze    -- Hokutoriki
Miyabiyama  -- Tochisakae
Tokitsuumi  -- Kotomitsuki
Wakanosato  -- Tamanoshima
Buyuzan     -- Kyokutenho
Chiyotaikai -- Musoyama
Asashoryu   -- Kaio

-----------------------------------------------
Kobayashi Toshiharu

Hokutoriki gets Takekaze on day 14. It'll be interesting to see who they'll pair him with on Day 15.

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Takekaze    -- Hokutoriki

Not knowing the ins and outs of how these things are decided, but just going by my gut reaction: what a disappointment. It seems like they want to hand Hokutoriki the yusho on a platter. Not taking anything away from Takekaze, who got his KK today, but this really takes the wind out of my expectation sails (Applauding...) (Applauding...)

Then again, the rank cynic in me says I'm not surprised, considering the way Kotomitsuki walked backwards out of the dohyo yesterday.

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yep.... quite disapointing matchup for Hokutoriki but let's face it....he played all the good guys by now....let him get the Yusho that he deserves.

maybe it is time for a new hero.I personally like it even though i am an Asashoryu fan.He can get back to his throne for the rest 3 bashos after this small break.... (Applauding...)

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Perhaps Hokutoriki should have got Asashoryu again instead, to really really deserve the yusho?

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Perhaps Hokutoriki should have got Asashoryu again instead, to really really deserve the yusho?

Or another bout against Kokkai, as suggested on the SML an hour ago. (Applauding...)

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Perhaps Hokutoriki should have got Asashoryu again instead, to really really deserve the yusho?

i wasn't being sarcastic.....

i meant it that he deserves the Yusho.

it is just a bit anti-climax to face Takekaze on day14.I said in some other thread though that this way the Torikuumi is more fair to him.

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And exactly who did you think he should have met?

The alternatives were:

Sw Kyokutenho 4-8

M01e Tochinonada 3-9

M02e Asasekiryu 2-10

M02w Kakizoe 5-7

M03e Shimotori 4-8

M03w Dejima 6-6

M06e Buyuzan 4-8

M07e Kyokushuzan 7-5

M07w Takekaze 7-5

...

M16e Hakuho 9-3

Well, like I said I don't know how these things are done, though it's obvious it's not based on rank (at least this late in the basho) but on current basho record. Personally either Asasekiryu (who I think would have given him a very spirited bout, in part to avenge his stablemate's loss, though that's just me talking and not the reasoning I'd expect nor want from the torikumi makers) or Tochinonada or Kyokutenhou. To me the latter is the most obvious, despite his mediocre record, not only because of the ranking, but also because he's the only other rikishi this basho to beat the Yokozuna. (Of course that may well end up the case on Day 15.) I guess I just look at the way Hakuho disposed of Takekaze yesterday and think he seems a cakewalk for Hokutoriki.

but let's face it....he played all the good guys by now....let him get the Yusho that he deserves.

Well, I don't think he deserves it until he actually wins it or as we say in America, until the fat lady sings. (Applauding...) Yes, of course he's gone though all the heavyweights and with the exception of Wakanosato beat them. But he is M1 after all.

I guess in general I'm just a bit disappointed with this basho and with the torikumi. From my ignorant seat it just all seems a bit whacked this basho, stuff like Kokkai going against an Ozeki one day and an M15 the next. Is it just my lack of knowledge with these things or do others feel the torikumi has been a bit all over the place?

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He has faced all the top guys already.

I would even venture to say that he has even a tougher schedule than Asashoryu and all the ozekis who had the chance to meet all the poor performing 1-5 megashiras such as 'kiryu, tochinada, etc. already mentioned on Yubi's post.

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I would even venture to say that he has even a tougher schedule than Asashoryu and all the ozekis who had the chance to meet all the poor performing 1-5 megashiras such as 'kiryu, tochinada, etc. already mentioned on Yubi's post.

That's what it really comes down to...one man's "crappy Maegashira" is another man's "potential spoiler". That said, I prefer Hokutoriki against an on-form Takekaze rather than an erratic Tochinonada or a mostly outclassed Asasekiryu, purely on the quality of sumo. Of course, if one's prime objective is to do as much as possible to prevent Hokutoriki's yusho (hmm, who would profit the most from that?) instead of putting good sumo on display, I can see why one could prefer Nada as his opponent. (Applauding...)

I do feel a bit vindicated for saying a few days ago that any Maegashira yusho will be picked apart endlessly because of the winner's torikumi. Nice to see it's even starting before senshuraku. (Applauding...)

I guess in general I'm just a bit disappointed with this basho and with the torikumi. From my ignorant seat it just all seems a bit whacked this basho, stuff like Kokkai going against an Ozeki one day and an M15 the next. Is it just my lack of knowledge with these things or do others feel the torikumi has been a bit all over the place?

When all the Maegashira do what they're supposed to and trundle along to between 6 and 9 wins, and leave the yusho race to the top-rankers, you end up with a very pretty torikumi. When you have a basho where six Maegashira are already kachi-koshi by Day 11 and one of them even leads the yusho race, you end up with the jumble we have this time. Nothing terribly unusual about it as such, except that it doesn't happen as often, for obvious reasons.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Perhaps Hokutoriki should have got Asashoryu again instead, to really really deserve the yusho?

i wasn't being sarcastic.....

i meant it that he deserves the Yusho.

it is just a bit anti-climax to face Takekaze on day14.I said in some other thread though that this way the Torikuumi is more fair to him.

Sorry, I was being a little sarcastic but it wasn't directed at you.

Zuikakuyama said it well. The torikumi for a maegashira 1 is always like that, with all the top-rankers in the beginning of the basho. So even if it might seem anticlimactic in this case, it is all fair and square.

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Sorry, I was being a little sarcastic but it wasn't directed at you.

Zuikakuyama said it well. The torikumi for a maegashira 1 is always like that, with all the top-rankers in the beginning of the basho. So even if it might seem anticlimactic in this case, it is all fair and square.

exactly ....... now we can say that we agree completely ....... (Applauding...)

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Well, like I said I don't know how these things are done, though it's obvious it's not based on rank (at least this late in the basho) but on current basho record. Personally either Asasekiryu (who I think would have given him a very spirited bout, in part to avenge his stablemate's loss, though that's just me talking and not the reasoning I'd expect nor want from the torikumi makers) or Tochinonada or Kyokutenhou. To me the latter is the most obvious, despite his mediocre record, not only because of the ranking, but also because he's the only other rikishi this basho to beat the Yokozuna. (Of course that may well end up the case on Day 15.) I guess I just look at the way Hakuho disposed of Takekaze yesterday and think he seems a cakewalk for Hokutoriki.

In theory, the torikumi should not be based on subjective opionion about whether some M03 "REALLY" is better than his 3-9 record or so. To do everything to take Asashoryu down or do everything to put Hokutoriki down is not a goal for the torikumi makers in itself, or is at least not supposed to be.

I have gotten the understanding that the Kyokai bases it mostly on

1) No rikishi but Ozeki and Yokozuna can be expected to be a strong opponent regardless of record to date during the basho.

2) A MK rikishi cannot be expected to be a good opponent to a largely KK one.

In fact, all over the divisions, the torikumi is more aimed towards putting rikishi of similar record against each other, than to put those of similar rank against each other, for most of the basho.

I don't know if this is exactly the way it is done, but I get the impression that those are general guidelines that are generally followed.

Given that, Kyokushuzan, Takekaze, Dejima and Hakuho were basically the only alternatives to put against Hokutoriki on day 14.

Edited by Yubiquitoyama

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Hakuho seems to be the logical choice for senshuraku, neh?

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In fact, all over the divisions, the torikumi is more aimed towards putting rikishi of similar record against each other, than to put those of similar rank against each other, for most of the basho.

To see just how typical that type of torikumi-making is, one may note that deeply make-koshi Asanowaka and Kobo are being set not against Maegashira opponents tomorrow, but against two upper Juryo rikishi who are also make-koshi already. The alternative would be to have them face Maegashiras who may be 6-7 or 7-6 - and probably giving those Maegashira (too) easy wins in their fight towards KK.

Hakuho seems to be the logical choice for senshuraku, neh?

It's possible, but M1 to M16 may be too much of a rank difference. Given today's results, my guess would be Kyokushuzan.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Disappointing machtup? Well I don't think that Takekaze was a bad choice, since I have a feeling that he is going to beat Hokutoriki tomorrow.

... but maybe I'm the only one ;)

Anjoboshi

P.S.: Maegashira rikishi near sanyaku aren't a gurantee for an interessting bout / defeat. What if for an example Tochinonada had the record of Hokutoriki and vice versa? I doubt that people would satisfied to see a 12-1 Tochinonada fighting a 4-9 Hokutoriki on day 14, only because Hokutoriki was ranked as M1 (and we expect that they haven't meet before)...

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I think it will be Hakuhou or Kyokutenhou-if 10-ho wins tomorrow, it will be him. If not and Hakuhou wins, it may be him. He will be 11-3 , so it seems pretty obvious to me regardless of rank.

On another note, I never cease to be amazed at fans who have a beef with the torikumi whenever a hiramaku yusho looms. Takatoriki was Maegashira last and won it, while everybody was wailing about how he had it easy till the last days. That is debatable, but has a point. Now, a guy arises from Maegashira 1, and like all maegashira 1 spank toys every basho, meets all the bigwigs,beats all Yokozuna and Ozeki, meets every potential dangerous opponent, wins all but one of his matches quickly and efficiently,(forward moving Sumo, for the efficianados-I personally couldn't care less if he were going sideways)..) and still, complaints.

Not every yusho winner will always be Asashouryuu, U or Chiyotaikai. The guy beat everyone who counts. Not even a torikumi from hell can change that fact.

I don't care if he fights koubo tomorrow. He's earned his yusho.

Let it go already..

Edited by Kintamayama

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I think it will be Hakuhou or Kyokutenhou-if 10-ho wins tomorrow, it will be him. If not and Hakuhou wins, it may be him. He will be 11-3 , so it seems pretty obvious to me regardless of rank.

The day 15 torikumi will be set before the day 14 makuuchi bouts.

On another note, I never cease to be amazed at fans who have a beef with the torikumi whenever a hiramaku yusho looms.

I am often one of the first to cry bloody hell when a hiramaku rikishi gets a way too easy schedule and is in the yusho hunt on senshuraku, like Asasekiryu last basho. This time I am in the opposite camp: if ever a maegashira deserved to win yusho, it is Hokutoriki. No slipups, please! (Applauding...)

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well i think the better choice was clear. he should have been put up against dejima. dejima from 1999, that is. (Applauding...) that might have made for a good bout.

i'm sorry, i just can't let go, i keep thinking (hoping) that any day now, that dejima will return. any day now...

i really should give up on that, shouldn't i?

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Agree totally with Kinta and Kashu on this.

There may be reasonable disagreements on who is the more appropriate opponent for Hoku on days 13-15, but the fact remains that he beat (or met) ALL of the guys that counts.

The remaining list of eligible opponents speaks volumes about the opposition he has faced thus far.

So this is definitely not a case of the Kyokai handing him the yusho on a platter, or him having an easy schedule.

Edited by Zuikakuyama

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One more vote for Takekaze. I don't really care who is goes up against but Takekaze is in top3 of the best foes for him (worst for him actually..you know what I mean). Takekaze is in good shape and very difficult to beat with tsuki. Also he'll eat Hoku for dinner if he gets through and he has the tachi-ai and ability to get through. Everybody seems to be a walk-over for Hoku this basho except Wakanosato and Tamanoshima but Takekaze isn't a bad choice. Don't be so disappointed.

Tochinonada would have been a difficult foe for him too.

Give Takekaze some credit in this match-up.

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No question about wheather Hokutoriki deserves the yusho or not. He does deserve it. As a Hollywood movie lover it seems the ending really sucks. He fights with the big guns those who really counts and climes up hill at the beginning. Oh that is interesting. Then he starts to fight with people that don't really count and 'he is singing in the rain'. That is down hill. That's not interesting. It would be really interesting if there is a play off match at the end and he wins it. There is a chance that his hard work goes to waste then he perseverce and wins the up hill battle. I would like the later story wouldn't you? Uphill at the end is more interesting. That's why matches between ozekis and yokozuna is at the end.

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Can someone tell me who was the last megashira who was never Sanyaku to win yusho?

=> The last one was Sandonoyama in may 1961 (M13West)

One year before him, in may 1960, there was Daigo (Wakamisugi) (M4West)

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Can someone tell me who was the last megashira who was never Sanyaku to win yusho?

=> The last one was Sandonoyama in may 1961 (M13West)

Edited by Asashosakari

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