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Igordemorais

Aki Basho 2012 Discussion Thread

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Can you people start linking to the documentaries you mention? You make me want to watch it then you leave me hanging.

The ones i did see were on Youtube, the best ones recommended and linked by posters here on the forum, but sadly they seem to get taken off Youtube very quickly.

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I actually more bothered by Takanoyama's henkas than Hakuho's remorse. I know Takanoyama's small, and his throws are cool, but the henka is nothing to be celebrated.

I felt the same with Hakuba. That guy drove me nuts.

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To turn things technical: tsukitaoshi is naturally not a very frequent technique. To see two of them on the same day in Makuuchi (Hakuho-Myogiryu and Harumafuji-Goeido) is pretty rare. Only a handful of occasions are recorded.

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Masumasu, your contributions to the forum always bring something different and emotionally charged, but you might consider toning down the rhetoric.

Combat sports lead to physical damage. I've been knocked out by punches, kicks, and one particularly brutal flying knee to the solar plexus this one time. I've been choked out more times than you can say "brain damaged".

When you're in a combat sport, you will suffer injuries, that's just how the cookie crumbles. Although Myogiryu getting knocked out ( knocked down actually, he wasn`t unconscious) might seem brutal to you, to him and Hakuho, believe or not it's just another day at the office. You, as a non-athlete might empathize with Myogiryu far more than is actually valid, because you see it in a dramatic light.

Also, you might feel that Hakuho's coolness might have been cruel or humilating to Myogiryu, but getting knocked out is simply not that big of a deal. It happens. And when two gargantuan men jump into each other from a 5 feet distance, it is definitely bound to happen.

Which is not to say that Hakuho didn`t give us some posturing after the fight, but I attribute that to the alpha male feeling that his reign is at risk. He hasn't felt that in a long time. It can not be easy.

No, no. I didn't say that the strike was brutal. It was Hakuho's total lack of concern for his opponent after the fact that upset me. If Vitor Belfort gets his arm snapped by Randy Coture, I expect Coture (as a gentleman and a sportsman) to show some compassion for his busted opponent.

But he DID give us posturing. Just not the kind that I was looking for. No, he intended to show no concern for Myogiriu.

Aren't Yokozuna supposed to be like wooden rooster?

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I actually more bothered by Takanoyama's henkas than Hakuho's remorse. I know Takanoyama's small, and his throws are cool, but the henka is nothing to be celebrated.

I'm not sure if the move from Takanoyama can even be called henka. Henka literally means change which points to a change from the usual tachi-ai. But this really IS Takanoyama's usual tachi-ai. I was totally stunned that Yoshikaze clearly didn't expect Takanoyama's usual tachi-ai. This clearly was one of the worst bout preparations ever or a thrown bout...

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That's not a henka. A henka is moving out of the way so as to fool the opponent, imbalance them and then pull them forwards. Takanoyama is using an arm drag to get a lateral position. He redirects their momentum. He certainly is not attempting to fool them. Give the guy some credit, if he goes straight forward, not only will he be pushed back, he will grant a belt grip: it's practically suicide.

Now this, is a henka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYlEl-E63dI

Edited by Igordemorais

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Ah yes. And another of the moments where I didn't like Hakuho's attitude. Another rikishi would probably let that accidental start slide, but Hakuho looked like he was about to get all up in Kisenosato's face.

I don't wish the Yokozuna harm but I'll cheer almost anyone on against him in a match.

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I reckon Hakuhos punch to be pretty much standard, and unlucky that it hit Myogiryu so hard. His reaction after he took the Kensho was an expression of anger. I immediately drew the connection to yesterday's bout. He seemed to be very embarrased and that tells me also that he did not throw it.

I liked the Kise-Toyo bout, it was so close, with much power, very spirited effort by Toyo, he nearly got it but also a nice defence by Kise. When he had the Mawashi outer grip then he had turned the tables but still Toyo defended well.

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Ah yes. And another of the moments where I didn't like Hakuho's attitude. Another rikishi would probably let that accidental start slide, but Hakuho looked like he was about to get all up in Kisenosato's face.

I don't wish the Yokozuna harm but I'll cheer almost anyone on against him in a match.

Another rikishi would probably let that accidental start slide

Another rikishi would probably let that accidental start slide

Another rikishi would probably let that accidental start slide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV-85sXm228

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Aren't Yokozuna supposed to be like wooden rooster?

You beat me to the tsukitaoshi. For those of you that are new to the sport, or to the forum, I point you at the following thread, which ironically discusses Hakuho showing Too MUCH emotion before becoming a yokozuna. http://www.sumoforum...?showtopic=8793 I will also repost the fable here for quick reference:

The Fighting Rooster

A Taoist Tale by Chuang Tzu

There once was a man who wanted his fighting rooster to be more ferocious. He took the rooster to a trainer. In a few weeks' time he returned and saw that his rooster didn't squawk as loudly.

"Not ready yet," said the trainer. Two weeks later he saw that his rooster barely raised his neck feathers and wings.

"Not ready yet," said the trainer. Another week passed. His rooster looked as tame and docile as a chick.

"You've ruined my fine fighting bird!" screamed the man at the trainer.

"Not at all," the trainer replied, "See how calm and secure he is, how serenely strong he stands today. The other fighting birds take one look at him and they all run away."

edited to cut out some quotes.

Edited by Gusoyama

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I stand corrected I guess, though I'm not a huge fan of Baruto either. (Sigh...)

Edited by Mukonoso

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I actually more bothered by Takanoyama's henkas than Hakuho's remorse. I know Takanoyama's small, and his throws are cool, but the henka is nothing to be celebrated.

You can't call those real henkas, can you ? He's often going for arm grabs, which to me is far from Kokkai-like jumping aside at tachiai. It's not very offensive, I agree. But it's not really avoiding fight either, I feel.

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I'm sure his mother does, as do some Japanese fans and the occasional, albeit rare, sumo enthusiast. I see nothing to like in him. His technique is not top-notch, his strength is not top-notch, his mental preparation is not top-notch, and even though he is quite the solid and talented fighter, I can't get over the fact that he just seems like a dirty, mediocre Asashoryu-wannabe.

Every time Kisenosato loses a match, I adopt a kitten and feed it a rainbow.

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I reckon Hakuhos punch to be pretty much standard, and unlucky that it hit Myogiryu so hard. His reaction after he took the Kensho was an expression of anger. I immediately drew the connection to yesterday's bout. He seemed to be very embarrased and that tells me also that he did not throw it.

I liked the Kise-Toyo bout, it was so close, with much power, very spirited effort by Toyo, he nearly got it but also a nice defence by Kise. When he had the Mawashi outer grip then he had turned the tables but still Toyo defended well.

Please explain anybody to me what has happened in the Kotoyuki-Tokushinho bout! Kotoyuki went down clearly. Two Monoii had been called and Kotoyuki called the winner. I could not understand the japanese explanation.

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Nobody really talks about Yoshikaze do they? He's sort of under-talked about really, he's quick, agile and wily, always seems to be there, yet no-one really mentions him.

Edited by Bugman
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Nobody really talks about Yoshikaze do they? He's sort of under-talked about really, he's quick, agile and wily, always seems to be there, yet no-one really mentions him.

He and Takekaze. I don't what happens to them, but they get as much attention as any run-of-the-mill Juryo resident.

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Please explain anybody to me what has happened in the Kotoyuki-Tokushinho bout! Kotoyuki went down clearly. Two Monoii had been called and Kotoyuki called the winner. I could not understand the japanese explanation.

It was a hansoku - Tokushinho pulled Kotoyuki's hair as he pulled him forwards and down, and thus lost the bout.

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I stand corrected I guess, though I'm not a huge fan of Baruto either. (Sigh...)

I can correct you on the other part of your assumption as well: There is absolutely nothing accidentally about the false starts from Kisenosato as you so benignly think. They are intentional, and that makes them worse then henka IMO.

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In my experience, I've seen many rikishi attempt to help a downed opponent just to get shooed back to their corner by the shimpan. I didn't see any lack of concern on Hakuho's part. He was just playing it by the book. It's one of the reasons he's such a model Yokozuna, especially after the Asashoryu mess. He may not have even noticed how out Myogiryu was, as he does often help his opponents back to the dohyo or on their feet.

I maintain that Hakuho is one of the nice guys of the sport. It's why I am a fan of him (And Bart, actually. Those henkas were to try and teach Kise a lesson).

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Nobody really talks about Yoshikaze do they? He's sort of under-talked about really, he's quick, agile and wily, always seems to be there, yet no-one really mentions him.

Yoshikaze has been hanging around in mid-makuuchi for 6 years. Too small to be a joijin regular, but very quick and agile. On any given day, he can outmaneuver and take out all be a very few sekitori. He seldom has a boring match. A fun guy.

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I stand corrected I guess, though I'm not a huge fan of Baruto either. (Sigh...)

I can correct you on the other part of your assumption as well: There is absolutely nothing accidentally about the false starts from Kisenosato as you so benignly think. They are intentional, and that makes them worse then henka IMO.

It was a bad enough habit coming from the disgraced Russians, who played these stupid tachiai games very often as well, but at least they were only occasioal visitors to sanyaku. Coming from an ozeki, it's disgraceful.

What really frosts my cookies is that anyone else in the upper ranks who tries to teach Kisenosato a lesson once in a while by delivering him a henka gets verbally reamed for it, when it's Kise who should be censured. And he does it All. The. God. Damned. Time.

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One fact some of you are missing- Hakuhou has been violently grabbing the wad of envelopes for a few days now-it seems to be his new "thang". Absolutely nothing to do with the Myougiryuu match and its outcome.

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