Spirituality and Sumo

[勝 Katsu 20]

While some of the posts in this thread have been only loosely tied to Spirituality and Sumo, I think anyone interested in the topic...and anyone who believes that Sumo is devoid of spirituality should take a moment to contemplate the Tsuna.

The Jinja Honcho states

"Let us look at Sumo wrestling, the world famous national pastime of Japan, for example. It originally was a ritual dedicated to Shinto deities. Surprised?

Above the ring-455 centimeters in diameter-hangs a ceremonial canopy exactly in the same shape and design of a Shinto shrine roofing.

A Yokozuna (Grand Champion) grandiosely enters the ring-wearing a "tsuna", a huge linen band, which is a derivative of Shinto's sacred border rope. And, from that "tsuna" hangs several "shide," sacred zig-zagged paper stripes.

Yes, sumo started as an entertainment offered to deities of Shinto."

and the Shinto Encyclopedia says:

http://eos.kokugakui...php?entryID=317

and

http://eos.kokugakui...php?entryID=316

Though the origin of certain costuming or my initial assertion that rikishi could be viewed as priests is certainly up for debate,

the very specific symbol of the Tsuna and Shide is found nowhere else but within the context of Shinto. These two elements demark "something sacred" and, when applied to Yokozuna obviously indicates a spiritual role. Though Mark even spoke to some rikishi and their reaction was less than enthusiastic, I doubt anyone who has taken "Jhapaneez Culture 101" could deny the

use of the Tsuna and Shide are Shinto in origin and remain, despite a modernized agnosticism within the culture itself, spiritual.

Edited December 3, 2012 by 勝 Katsu

[Orion 431]

The Jinja Honcho you quote was formed in 1946 in an attempt to gather together a countryfull of independent shrines and different beliefs. It specifically acknowedges the seniority of the Grand Shrines of Ise, a dead giveaway of where it is coming from -- the remaking of tradition for political rather than religious purposes. As I said earlier, the connections with Shinto, and specifically the link with Ise, were stressed in the 20th century, and many of the "ancient" traditions were actually introduced into sumo at that time.Since I have already made this point, I do not propose to waste time or space in repeating it.

Modern sumo is an amalgam of several origins from different historical periods: farming village traditions, samurai training, and mythology (which claims to be the oldest but is often made up later). Sumo as we know it today is one-third "religion" in the widest sense, one-third sport, and one-third showbiz (proportions approximate!).

Orion

[勝 Katsu 20]

The Jinja Honcho you quote was formed in 1946 in an attempt to gather together a countryfull of independent shrines and different beliefs. It specifically acknowedges the seniority of the Grand Shrines of Ise, a dead giveaway of where it is coming from -- the remaking of tradition for political rather than religious purposes. As I said earlier, the connections with Shinto, and specifically the link with Ise, were stressed in the 20th century, and many of the "ancient" traditions were actually introduced into sumo at that time.Since I have already made this point, I do not propose to waste time or space in repeating it.

Modern sumo is an amalgam of several origins from different historical periods: farming village traditions, samurai training, and mythology (which claims to be the oldest but is often made up later). Sumo as we know it today is one-third "religion" in the widest sense, one-third sport, and one-third showbiz (proportions approximate!).

Orion

I'm not denying that modern Sumo has these other aspects. I started this thread to focus specifically on the religious/spiritual ones. It's supposed to be primarily informational,, not argumentative, so people coming to the thread and saying boo are being kind of redundant.

[Kuroyama 715]

I'm not denying that modern Sumo has these other aspects. I started this thread to focus specifically on the religious/spiritual ones. It's supposed to be primarily informational,, not argumentative, so people coming to the thread and saying boo are being kind of redundant.

The problem is that your information is askew. It's Orion who's being informational -- or rather, gently corrective. When you contradict her, YOU are the one being argumentative. I guarantee she knows more about this than either you or many of the sources you're relying on -- or is more interested in being accurate, since she has no agenda to promote.

[Asashosakari 18,959]

I also suspect that the spiritual/traditional aspects were re-emphasized from the early 20th century onward in part because Ozumo had gone through its first "sport" phase at the time (performance-based rankings since the 1880s, increased focus on individual performances with the introduction of the yusho award from 1909), and some counterweight was probably felt to be needed.

[勝 Katsu 20]

I'm not denying that modern Sumo has these other aspects. I started this thread to focus specifically on the religious/spiritual ones. It's supposed to be primarily informational,, not argumentative, so people coming to the thread and saying boo are being kind of redundant.

The problem is that your information is askew. It's Orion who's being informational -- or rather, gently corrective. When you contradict her, YOU are the one being argumentative. I guarantee she knows more about this than either you or many of the sources you're relying on -- or is more interested in being accurate, since she has no agenda to promote.

Really? I'm quoting Jinja Honcho and the encyclopedia of Shinto (which is published by Kokugakuin University) and that's not good enough? I've got a lot of experience being neysaid because my theories (on some other topics) have no historical or scientific grounds...I have no reference material and often speak on things which seem completely out of the ballpark in terms of sanity, but I have to say, this is the first time anyone ever said boo to me when I have what is essentially the only available historical/scientific/whatever evidence or reference material...

I call this the "sky is black" is theory of internet social structure.

Regardless of whether I say the sky the blue...and everyone knows the sky is blue...there will be someone online to say the sky is black.

I am offended by this interuption.

[勝 Katsu 20]

Hikiai-mochi shinji

Tug-of-War of the Mochi Rite. A rite at the Hachiman Shrine in Gose City, Nara Prefecture, held on the ninth day of the ninth month of the old lunar calendar. Six large round mochi are placed in straw bags called kogutsu. The kogutsu is tightly bound with cords then pulled along with a rope. The participants engage im a rite of tug-of-war over this. Finally, the mochi are removed from a hole in the kogutsu and the worshippers scramble for it. Preceeding this a member of the Kagimoto family, the founding family of the shrine and the overseer of the shrine (miyamori) act out forms of sumō wrestling. The mochi is said to be a charm for safe birth.

Edited December 5, 2012 by 勝 Katsu

[krindel 671]

I am offended by this interuption.

I have very limited knowledge on the subject of Sumo history, and all of it second hand. Most of us, I believe, have only second hand experience, after all, I've never lived in Japan, and I assume you have not either. While I can also use google and dig up stuff on the internet, I know enough to realize that the opinion of people who have lived inside sumo and Japan for longer than I have been alive should at the very least be respected.

I also think that when people with strong first-hand connection to sumo and a very deep understanding of its inner process and the mentality of the participants have information to share, if you are REALLY interested in the subject and not in the promotion of your own world view you should take the trouble to listen.

People will not treat what you dig up on the web as gospel, and the first-hand information provided by Orion and others is not "offensive interruption", but one of the main reasons why this forum is worth visiting.

Edited December 5, 2012 by krindel

[勝 Katsu 20]

I am offended by this interuption.

People will not treat what you dig up on the web as gospel, and the first-hand information provided by Orion and others is not "offensive interruption", but one of the main reasons why this forum is worth visiting.

I'm not trying to have anyone take what I'm saying "as gospel". If a new member were to to read this entire thread, they would note that several members have already made theirr objections to this worldview. They have already stated numerous times that they disagree ....so noted....moving on.

[勝 Katsu 20]

Ofune matsuri

Boat Festival. A festival on May fourth and fifth held at Susuki Miya in Matsumoto, Nagano Prefecture. Participants from the nine villages of the former Satoyama area bring out nine ofune made of boat-shaped wooden frames from which cloth is draped. Pulling the boats decorated with warrior figures, they process to the accompaniment of cheerers (ohayashi). Within the precincts of the shrine (keidai), the nine ofune boats receive oharai (see shubatsu) purification from the priests (shinshoku). There are several traditions of ofune festivals in the Azumi region of Nagano Prefecture. At Hotaka Jinja in Hotaka Township, Azumi-gun, the reisai (main annual festival) is also commonly referred to as an ofune festival. Participants pull five large and small roof-covered dashi (carts, floats), boat-shaped and decorated with human figures and plaited leaves and branches of Cryptomeria trees. There are festivals for the transference of kami at Harumiya (spring shrine) and Akimiya (autumn shrine) of the lower shrine (shimosha) of Suwa Taisha in Lower Suwa Township, Suwa–gun, Nagano Prefecture. On August first, the kami is transferred from Harumiya to Akimiya, while the transference from Akimiya to Harumiya is on February first. The August festival, which is called the ofune matsuri, is the grander of the two. A boat-shaped structure woven with brushwood, wrapped in cloth and carrying two life-sized human figures of an old man and woman is pulled by several thousand Suwa ujiko (parishioners) from Harumiya to Akimiya. A procession of the kami object proceeds to Akimiya along a separate sacred path. When the ofune reaches Akimiya, the brushwood boat is broken up, the figures of the old man and woman are placed upright next to a Sumō wrestling ring, and several bouts of Sumō are dedicated to the kami.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I'm quoting Jinja Honcho and the encyclopedia of Shinto (which is published by Kokugakuin University) and that's not good enough?

You may be quoting those sources, but it is not necessary to reproduce their entire content here. You've made members aware of their existence and your fondness for them, and anyone who wishes to delve further may do so at those websites. This thread is done.