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Jejima

Bench Euro 2012

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I would prefer the rules as they are written now: 8-team-squad (6+2)

And I would take the the odds of the bookmakers.

It's fine what a Team achieved before, but that counts nothing in this tournament (except the seeding)

You can not ignore which Teams you have to play in the group stage (i.e. Denmark) or that 2 Teams are playing on home turf.

Imagine spain would have 20 injured player...

so would you think they will win the tournament, because of their achievments in the past ???

Have a good tournament und much fun with our Game.

Pitinosato

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Jejima,

Thanks for the clarification. I sent you my preferred teams via PM on Sumoforum. Please, confirm the receipt or I have to send it via e-mail. Thanks.

Edited by Achiyama

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I would prefer the rules as they are written now: 8-team-squad (6+2)

Pitinosato

Let's try it with 6+1 - I think it works out fairer. The representative team is quite powerful (if it wins) - and weak when it doesn't. With the way the rules now are, it balances it out for those players that end up with a less favoured (Denmark?) representative team.

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I think I have most players (but not all) lists for representative teams - that includes the PMs (I have yours as one of them, Achiyama :-)). I guess we need a deadline - so just under 24 hours from now (earlier if possible - I will make the 'draw' as soon as I get them all - and we can then move onto the next stage of picking our squads.) - so 1 pm JST time, Thursday.

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I know I'm not playing, but the team rankings looked very odd to me. Had a look at the official FIFA rankings as regards the EUFA rankings, and they're a "little" different from your bookies.

Denmark are not "bottom of the totem pole", Poland are. Denmark should be listed at Sekiwake on your list. France are not Ozeki, they're Upper Maegashira, and so on.

The official rankings make a huge difference to "counterbalancing" teams. Poland to Spain for example.

Just thought I'd say.

The FIFA/UEFA Rankings are soley based on numbers and old preformances.

They are much more an indicator of how teams "has been doing" then an estimate to "how they will be doing".

The FIFA/UEFA Rankings are also affected by how teams from the different national leauges preform in inter-league competitions.

(Something that isnt really a good indicator of how strong a national team is, since the distrubution of topplayers are very centered to only a few leauges.)

I can't imagine how you would calculate rankings on any other basis than achievements to date. To say "how they will be doing" would be akin to making Kisenosato a Yokozuna because he's a popular choice.

Also,to say that the FIFA/UEFA national rankings are affected by teams from the different national leagues is a nonsense. Only the club co-efficients for the CL and Europa League are affected by league club performances.

Refer to this link for confirmation http://en.wikipedia....EFA_coefficient

Look at that, I were wrong in the thought that club preformance affected the FIFA ranking.

Thanks for pointing it out. Its never to late to learn. :)

That however does not change the fact that it is not as good an indicator as the bookmaker consencus.

You cant make a direct parallel to sumo, it does not work the same.

Keep in mind that sumo has a tournament every 2 months were all simularly ranked competitors face each other directly, thus making the ranking much more updated and true. But remember, even this "better" ranking isnt really the the best indicator of how the competitors will preform at the next basho.

Look at at our last basho for an example, were Kyokutenho and Tochinoshin were among the top preformers (Kyokutenho even winning the whole thing) while beeing low on the banzuke. The ranking (banzuke) in this case were way off, especially compaired to the informed guesses of experts that saw both doing well the basho duh to them dropping in ranking. Even here does the ranking not try to estimate the competitors preformance but rather "reward" them in correlation to recent preformances.

That said it still gives a better picture in sumo then in fotboll where compititions are far apart with so much happing strenght-wise in between them, aswell as the fact that the different teams does not face eachother with the same regularity at all as in sumo witch makes the ranking even more skewered.

Thanks to the involvment of the national league players in constant club-matches tho, bookmakers and other experts have alot of information to go on to make "qualified guesses". And as I mentioned before, this isnt really up for discussion (wich one is more accurate) since the bookmaker odds has been showed atrackrecord of beeing head and shoulders above the ranking in estimating the outcome of the major tournaments, both club and national.

Another valid point is the fact that these Teams have squads and the individual players both change and develope differently. Imagine if a banzukerank was tied to a shikona, who's reprasantative could be changed and inherited.

The idiom "you can not compare apples and oranges" rings true in cases like these.

You have to look at the individual situation, with football and its rankings beeing all it is.

Edited by Kameumi

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Spain - Denmark

Germany - Ireland

Netherlands - Greece

England - Sweden

France - Czech Republic

Italy - Poland

Portugal - Croatia

Russia - Ukraine

Ukraine - Russia

Croatia - Portugal

Poland - Italy

Czech Republic - France

Sweden - England

Greece - Netherlands

Ireland - Germany

Denmark - Spain

Jezz,

While I have no idea what I am doing, I will play, if you need me to.

My representative picks are:

Ukraine

Germany

Netherlands

Denmark

England

If you don't need me to play, that is fine also.

Thanks.

Yoohoo

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that's ok yoohoo, i don't really know what i'm doing with regards to football*, either. but i did the game when jejima ran it for the world cup in 2010, and didn't do horribly. or at least i don't remember doing horribly. also, it was a good time, as i expect this to be.

*pretty slick of me to not call it soccer, eh? :) (silly american that i am)

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also, while i'm here, there's pretty good sakura representation in this game, isn't there? can we do ichimons? go sakura! :)

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Hi Jejima,

If I am not too late:

1. Germany

2. Netherlands

3. Denmark

4. Greece

5. Poland

Xiaotan

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I am fairly sure that all players teams have sent in their representative teams - if they haven't there are enough back-up players to take their places (who have sent their list). I'll start working on it now during my lunch hour (once I have eaten!), but will probably only finish it after work (in about 4 hours time). I will put the results in this thread....

Stay tuned!

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Okay everyone....

Kintamayama is the 16th player.

However, Maguroyama missed the deadline, so he is replaced by the first sub, Harinezumi.

To build up a bit of tension, I'll make the draw over a couple of posts ;-)

First of all, let's allocate the teams to the players who were the only ones to select as their first choice. (The team in brackets is the Counterbalance team).

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - 2 players

Russia (Ukraine)

Czech Republic (France) - 2 players

Group B

Netherlands (Greece)

Denmark (Spain)

Germany (Ireland) - !!!6 players!!!

Portugal (Croatia)

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - 2 players

Italy (Poland) - 2 players

Ireland (Germany)

Croatia (Portugal)

Group D

Ukraine (Russia)

Sweden (England)

France (Czech Republic)

England (Sweden) - Jejima

So, after the first round, we only have two confirmed teams, Jakusotsu with Poland, and Jejima with England.

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Okay, I am going to use the random die* roller found at http://www.random.org/dice/?num=1. I think this is the same website that I used for the Bench World Cup - when it seemed to favour the 'number 1'. I have just tested it a few times, and no '1s' came up, so perhaps it has forgotten.

Okay, first up, Greece...

This is between Achiyama (1, 2 or 3) and Chabonowaka (4, 5 or 6). Let's roll the die!

1

It is mocking me! Achiyama will represent Greece.

Next, the Czech Republic....

Andonishiki (1, 2 or 3) and super-sub Harinezumi (4, 5 or 6). Roll the die!

4

Harinezumi will represent the Czech Republic.

We'll do Italy next....

Kameumi (1, 2 or 3) and Kintamayama (4, 5 or 6). Bring on the die!

5

Kintamayama gets the Italians.

The tournament favourite (according to the bookies) next... Yes, Spain....

Rubensan (1, 2 or 3)

Rannohana (4, 5 or 6)

3

Rubensan gets his home country.

Okay, the big one! Amongst us players at least. 6 players selected Germany as their first choice. There are 6 sides on a die. Coincidence? (Yes, obviously.)

Pitinosato (1)

Asashosakari (2)

Mischashimaru (3)

XiaoTan (4)

Pandaauma (5)

Doitsuyama (6)

Drum roll please.......

1

Pitinosato gets Germany!

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - Achiyama

Russia (Ukraine)

Czech Republic (France) - Harinezumi

Group B

Netherlands (Greece)

Denmark (Spain)

Germany (Ireland) - Pitinosato

Portugal (Croatia)

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - Rubensan

Italy (Poland) - Kintamayama

Ireland (Germany)

Croatia (Portugal)

Group D

Ukraine (Russia)

Sweden (England)

France (Czech Republic)

England (Sweden) - Jejima

So, after all the first choices are handed out, Group A is nearly in place - but no one seems to want to play with either Pitinosato or Jejima....

*The correct singular for 'dice'.

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We move onto the second choice picks. If your 2nd choice pick has already gone (Rannohana, Andonishiki, Mischashimaru and Pandaazuma), you will have to wait for the third round etc...

I'll colour code in red the second round picks....

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - Achiyama

Russia (Ukraine) - Kameumi

Czech Republic (France) - Harinezumi

Group B

Netherlands (Greece) - Xiaotan

Denmark (Spain) - Chabonowaka

Germany (Ireland) - Pitinosato

Portugal (Croatia)

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - Rubensan

Italy (Poland) - Kintamayama

Ireland (Germany) - 2 players

Croatia (Portugal)

Group D

Ukraine (Russia)

Sweden (England)

France (Czech Republic)

England (Sweden) - Jejima

Group A is now completed! But still no one wants to join Jejima :-(

Edited by Jejima

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Just one roll of the die for round two....

Ireland!

Asashosakari (1, 2 or 3)

Doitsuyama (4, 5 or 6)

6

Doitsuyama gets Ireland (although it is fairly obvious that it was his back-up plan to get Germany.... ;-))

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - Achiyama

Russia (Ukraine) - Kameumi

Czech Republic (France) - Harinezumi

Group B

Netherlands (Greece) - Xiaotan

Denmark (Spain) - Chabonowaka

Germany (Ireland) - Pitinosato

Portugal (Croatia)

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - Rubensan

Italy (Poland) - Kintamayama

Ireland (Germany) - Doitsuyama

Croatia (Portugal)

Group D

Ukraine (Russia)

Sweden (England)

France (Czech Republic)

England (Sweden) - Jejima

Still 5 teams to decide, so we should move onto round 3....

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Onto third choice picks.... Most of these have already gone for our five remaining players, but there is one player who gets a team....

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - Achiyama

Russia (Ukraine) - Kameumi

Czech Republic (France) - Harinezumi

Group B

Netherlands (Greece) - Xiaotan

Denmark (Spain) - Chabonowaka

Germany (Ireland) - Pitinosato

Portugal (Croatia)

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - Rubensan

Italy (Poland) - Kintamayama

Ireland (Germany) - Doitsuyama

Croatia (Portugal)

Group D

Ukraine (Russia)

Sweden (England)

France (Czech Republic) - Andonishiki

England (Sweden) - Jejima

Jejima finally gets an opponent!

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Round 4....

Four players left..... Two of them get their 4th choice teams!

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - Achiyama

Russia (Ukraine) - Kameumi

Czech Republic (France) - Harinezumi

Group B

Netherlands (Greece) - Xiaotan

Denmark (Spain) - Chabonowaka

Germany (Ireland) - Pitinosato

Portugal (Croatia)

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - Rubensan

Italy (Poland) - Kintamayama

Ireland (Germany) - Doitsuyama

Croatia (Portugal)

Group D

Ukraine (Russia) - Rannohana

Sweden (England) - Mischashimaru

France (Czech Republic) - Andonishiki

England (Sweden) - Jejima

Group D is complete!

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Now this is a little weird....

The remaining two unrepresented teams are Croatia and Portugal. They counterbalance each other.... Coincindence? Maybe not. On all 16 players top 5 choices, Portugal appears twice and Croatia twice also. I guess this combo did not really appeal to us. (In fairness, I should also mention England only appeared twice too ;-))

Unfortunately, neither of these two teams are either Asashosakari's or Pandaazuma's 5th choice.

Okay, you two guys have 19 hours (until 2 pm JST, Friday) to let me know your preference amongst these last two teams - otherwise I'll make a random draw for you.

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Meh, I was drawing dead as soon as I lost the second-round roll for Ireland...not an auspicious start.

Anyway, thanks Simon - think I prefer Portugal as the balancing team, so Croatia as representation for me, please. :-)

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I don't mind at all, so Pierre...take your pick!

That is very sporting. (Applauding...)

[The next bit deleted as I see that Asashosakari has already responded....]

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Many thanks to Pandaazuma and Asashosakari for completing the draw for representing teams very quickly.

Here is the final line-up for the game.

Group A

Poland (Italy) - Jakusotsu

Greece (Netherlands) - Achiyama

Russia (Ukraine) - Kameumi

Czech Republic (France) - Harinezumi

Group B

Netherlands (Greece) - Xiaotan

Denmark (Spain) - Chabonowaka

Germany (Ireland) - Pitinosato

Portugal (Croatia) - Pandaazuma

Group C

Spain (Denmark) - Rubensan

Italy (Poland) - Kintamayama

Ireland (Germany) - Doitsuyama

Croatia (Portugal) - Asashosakari

Group D

Ukraine (Russia) - Rannohana

Sweden (England) - Mischashimaru

France (Czech Republic) - Andonishiki

England (Sweden) - Jejima

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Okay, next bit of admin.....

Please send in your picks for the rest of your squad. You need to pick one team from each of the following groups *except* from the group where you have your representative team.

So, Jakusotsu is representing Poland, so he *won't* be allowed another pick from that group. (So he can't select either the Czech Republic or Sweden).

You do need to select an additional team from your 'Counterbalance team's group' - but *NOT* the counterbalancing team (you get that automatically.) So Chabonowaka will have to pick Germany as his Yokozuna pick (as he already has Spain as his counterbalance team).

In total, you should pick 5 further teams to go with your Representative team and the Counterbalance team.

Please send me in a PM (or an email, but a PM preferred) your squad like this....

<Your shikona>

<Representative Team>

<Counter Balance Team>

Your other 5 picks (one from each of the following groups EXCEPT the group where your representative team is).

Deadline: 48 hours from now (but earlier preferred): 19:30 JST, Saturday

I'll send my squad to Jakusotsu and Asashosakari to prevent me from cheating.

Here are the groups...

Yokozuna

Spain

Germany

Ozeki

Netherlands

England

France

Sekiwake

Italy

Portugal

Russia

Komusubi

Ukraine

Croatia

Upper Maegashira

Poland

Czech Republic

Sweden

Lower Maegashira

Greece

Ireland

Denmark

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Finally.... Please can three players volunteer to 'look after a group' (I'll look after the fourth) for admin purposes. You'll need to receive the entries for each round of matches, publish the line-ups (chasing up, if need be, as the deadlines approach), and publish the results on this thread. It will be a different group from your own.

Edited by Jejima

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Great job in the drawing Jejima, this time around aswell!

But I like you miss the 1's from the last draw.(1 would have given me Italy ^^)

That said, I'm still very pleased with getting my 2nd choice, Russia.

I have money on Russia making the final. They are a strong group this time around, and its a bit less intrasquad drama then usually. ;)

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Thanks, Jejima, for the entertaining way of announcing the drawing. Kudos! (Applauding...)

Isn't the 4th group, the one you are participating in? So you can't look after it, right?

I volunteer to look after one of the groups. I can do the 4th ( D ), if you are not allowed to do it. Or any other #2 ( B ) or #3 ( C ) I am o.k. with.

Achiyama

Edited by Achiyama

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