Baruto Yokozuna run-really?

[Kintamayama 47,374]

Everyone was very evasive today when asked what criteria Baruto should fulfill next basho to become yokozuna. "The basho just ended.. We'll have to wait for the next basho," said Takanohana. "That's something the judging bureau will have to decide," said Hanaregoma. "There is nothing that qualifies him for aiming for Yokozuna.. I'd like to see him win spectacularly!" said YDC head Tsuruta. When asked if he gets the yusho next basho and does some "special" sumo (henka, henka..) he answered: "That won't be good. There is a good chance he won't move on. The hinkaku (dignity) is important!!"

:-S

Edited January 22, 2012 by Kintamayama

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Weird comment from Tsuruta. Surely the head of the YDC of all people would know the standard yokozuna promotion criteria, and obviously his hatsu-yusho puts him in the frame for a tsuna run.

His sumo is steadier than ever and he is capable of making the jump. Hope he makes it.

[DawidPoland 1]

I really want to have a European Baruto Yokozuna! I am of Polish and Estonia lies to the north of the Polish and because it is quite close to the Polish very cheering and Takanoyama Baruta, who is from the Czech Republic, a country which borders Poland. Baruto new Yokozuna it would be great!

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

I somhow doubt that Baruto himself would be happy about taking the next step (based on personal musings and on what kajiyama told and wrote about Baruto's strong ties to his homeland).

And in the direction Mr. Tsuruta: F*ck you. We all know that he has the wrong passport/bloodgroup. Jerk.

[Hakuyobaku 33]

"There is nothing that qualifies him for aiming for Yokozuna.. I'd like to see him win spectacularly!" said YDC head Tsuruta

Aren't these guys in this or that way responsible (in their position) for whatever they have to say? Ha? 14-1 = 14-1, and what would he have to say if the exact same thing happened next basho? Ha? Of course nothing wrong with promoting Kisenosato with 1 win short to Ozeki of course, that must be OK. Merits, anyone?

If you're racists, just admit it already YDC.

[Fukurou 534]

When asked if he gets the yusho next basho and does some "special" sumo (henka, henka..) he answered: "That won't be good. There is a good chance he won't move on. The hinkaku (dignity) is important!!"

:-S

Show them the videos of Mr. Hinaku (Hakuho) doing henka on Asashoryu and others, and see if their tune changes.

[Naganoyama 6,043]

I suppose that it's just possible that he didn't mean it quite the way it has been interpreted. Maybe he was trying to say that there are no specific criteria (

[DawidPoland 1]

http://chu-kichi.sakura.ne.jp/sblo_files/g...-thumbnail2.jpg What is it? It's not like your face Baruto?

[Asojima 2,874]

When asked if he gets the yusho next basho and does some "special" sumo (henka, henka..) he answered: "That won't be good. There is a good chance he won't move on. The hinkaku (dignity) is important!!"

:-O

Hinkaku .... Who?? ... Me??

[Kintamayama 47,374]

I suppose that it's just possible that he didn't mean it quite the way it has been interpreted. Maybe he was trying to say that there are no specific criteria (

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 20,297]

Maybe Tsuruta is still smarting from this.

[Maguroyama 27]

Actually, I don't think Baruto is ready for yokozuna at all. And that's not because of that stupid henka... Just look at his record since becoming ozeki and before winning this one: 9 straight basho where he didn't even manage one jun-yusho. Sure, stable scores and many double-digit, but 10-5, 11-4. 9-6 just isn't yokozuna material. He needs to prove that he can compete for the yusho in at least every other basho, preferably even more often than that, or he shouldn't be considered. So even if he should win in Haru, I think it might be too early. Still, if it should happen, I think he will be promoted, whatever the Powers That Be are saying now...

[Kuroyama 715]

Actually, I don't think Baruto is ready for yokozuna at all. And that's not because of that stupid henka... Just look at his record since becoming ozeki and before winning this one: 9 straight basho where he didn't even manage one jun-yusho. Sure, stable scores and many double-digit, but 10-5, 11-4. 9-6 just isn't yokozuna material. He needs to prove that he can compete for the yusho in at least every other basho, preferably even more often than that, or he shouldn't be considered. So even if he should win in Haru, I think it might be too early. Still, if it should happen, I think he will be promoted, whatever the Powers That Be are saying now...

A decade of dai-yokozuna sure has spoiled us, hasn't it? Baruto's performance for the past year has been pre-yokozuna-ordinaire quality, IMO.

[Afrozuna 8]

Actually, I don't think Baruto is ready for yokozuna at all. And that's not because of that stupid henka... Just look at his record since becoming ozeki and before winning this one: 9 straight basho where he didn't even manage one jun-yusho. Sure, stable scores and many double-digit, but 10-5, 11-4. 9-6 just isn't yokozuna material. He needs to prove that he can compete for the yusho in at least every other basho, preferably even more often than that, or he shouldn't be considered. So even if he should win in Haru, I think it might be too early. Still, if it should happen, I think he will be promoted, whatever the Powers That Be are saying now...

A decade of dai-yokozuna sure has spoiled us, hasn't it? Baruto's performance for the past year has been pre-yokozuna-ordinaire quality, IMO.

Some would argue that Yokozuna are supposed to be dai-yokozuna. I personally think the dai-yokozuna "requirement" of 10 yushos is too lenient. A Yokozuna is promoted on the presumption that his two consecutive yushos indicate commendable future perfomance. If he is a sole Yokozuna then he would most certainly be expected to win the majority of the yushos and win them very well. If he is a joint Yokozuna those expectations would be lowered slighlty but he is still expected to at least take the yusho race to senshuraki, after all that is what we also expect from a good Ozeki who is pushing for the tsuna.

I know many would disagree with me but personally I feel a yokozuna should be a dai-yokozuna and the string of dai yokozuna in recent years seems to justify the back-to-back yusho requirement for the tsuna. I expect a Yokozuna promotee to be at that rank for at least 4 years and in those years he would have had 24 bashos(edit: from yushos to bashos), it is extremely reasonable to expect said Yokozuna promotee to win 10 of those.

All that said it will be very interesting to see who the next Yokozuna will be after Hakuho as no one has put up the consistent result to indicate they are actively persuing the tsuna

Edited January 24, 2012 by maegashira-yusho

[Jaak 7]

Let us go through the list of yokozuna active past 1950.

1) Haguroyama.

4 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho total - but ended 14:1J-14:1Y

As yokozuna, 6 yusho in 30 basho, incl. 4 consecutive yusho (and 2 consecutive zensho)

2) Terukuni

2 ozeki basho. 0 ozeki yusho - promoted on 12:3-13:2J.

As yokozuna, 2 yusho out of 25 - these only ones consecutive.

3) Azumafuji

6 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho total - promoted on 10:1Y-10:1D

As yokozuna, 5 yusho out of 20 - non-consecutive.

4) Chiyonoyama

6 ozeki basho. 3 ozeki yusho: debuted with consecutive yusho 13:2Y-12:3Y. Controversially not promoted. Finally promoted on 8:7-14:1Y.

As yokozuna, 3 yusho out of 32 - incl. the second consecutive pair.

5) Kagamisato

6 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 12:3J-14:1Y

As yokozuna, 3 yusho out of 21, incl. a consecutive pair.

7) Yoshibayama

10 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 11:4-15:0Y

As yokozuna, no yusho in 17 basho.

8) Tochinishiki

8 ozeki basho. 3 ozeki yusho. Promoted on consecutive yusho pair 14:1Y-14:1Y.

As yokozuna, 6 yusho out of 28.

9) Wakanohana Kanji

10 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 2 nonconsecutive ozeki yusho - promoted on 12:3J-13:2Y

As yokozuna, 8 yusho out of 26, incl. 2 consecutive pairs.

10) Asashio Taro

11 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 2 nonconsecutive ozeki yusho. Promoted on 14:1Y-11:4J-13:2J

As yokozuna, 1 yusho out of 17.

12) Kashiwado

7 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 10:5-11:4-12:3J

As yokozuna, 4 yusho out of 47, all nonconsecutive.

13) Taiho

5 basho as ozeki. 2 ozeki yusho, consecutive - 13:2Y-12:3Y-tsuna

As yokozuna, 29 yusho out of 58.

14) Tochinoumi

10 basho as ozeki. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 14:1Y-13:2

As yokozuna, 1 yusho out of 17.

15) Sadanoyama

17 basho as ozeki. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 13:2J-13:2J-13:2Y

As yokozuna, 3 yusho out of 19 - incl. a consecutive pair.

16) Tamanoumi

20 basho as ozeki. No consecutive yusho: 2 nonconsecutive ozeki yusho - promoted on 13:2Y-10:5-13:2D

As yokozuna, 4 yusho out of 10 - incl. a consecutive pair.

17) Kitanofuji

21 basho as ozeki. 3 ozeki yusho, promoted on 13:2Y-13:2Y

As yokozuna, 7 yusho out of 27.

18) Kotozakura

32 basho as ozeki. 4 ozeki yusho, promoted on 14:1Y-14:1Y

As yokozuna, 1 yusho out of 8

19) Wajima

4 basho as ozeki. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 13:2J-15:0Y

As yokozuna, 12 yusho out of 47, incl. 2 consecutive pairs.

20) Kitanoumi

3 basho as ozeki. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 13:2Y-13:2D

As yokozuna, 22 yusho out of 63, incl 5 consecutive.

21) Wakanohana Kanji

8 basho as ozeki. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 13:2J-13:2D-14:1D

As yokozuna, 3 yusho out of 28, all nonconsecutive.

22) Mienoumi

21 basho as ozeki. 0 ozeki yusho - promoted on 10:5-13:2J-14:1D

As yokozuna, 2 yusho out of 8 - consecutive.

23) Chiyonofuji

3 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho - promoted on 11:4J-13:2J-14:1Y

As yokozuna, 29 yusho out of 59, incl. 5 consecutive.

24) Takanosato

9 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 2 nonconsecutive ozeki yusho - promoted on 12:3J-13:2J-14:1Y

As yokozuna, 2 yusho out of 15, the first consecutive with the ozeki yusho.

25) Futahaguro

4 ozeki basho. No yusho - promoted on 10:5-12:3J-13:1D

As yokozuna, no yusho in 9 basho

26) Hokutoumi

5 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 11:4-12:3Y-13:2J

As yokozuna, 6 yusho out of 30 - never a consecutive pair

27) Onokuni

13 ozeki basho. No consecutive yusho: 1 ozeki yusho - promoted on 15:0Y-12:3J-13:2J

As yokozuna, 1 yusho out of 27.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Jaak

[Naganoyama 6,043]

I suppose that it's just possible that he didn't mean it quite the way it has been interpreted. Maybe he was trying to say that there are no specific criteria (

[Andreas21 221]

I would be more optimistic about Baruto going to be a Yokozuna. As far as I can see, the rules rather read: "two bashos with a result worthy of a yusho each" which means that a yusho is not strictly required.

So another yusho would safely be a promotion and also a Jun-Yusho with 13 wins could suffice. As mentioned, it has been enough often in the last decades. In fact, Yokozuna bar could be even lower but I'm afraid not for Baruto as he's not Japanese enough. Frankly, it would be 12 for Kise but I would doubt that they would go even lower.

With respect to Hinkaku, however, I think he's rather on the safe site. Has a gentle attitude, is open to the people near his beya (saw some nice videos), has a reputation of trying to avoid injury of the opponent, is reasonably popular in Japan for a European. Compare that to Aran or Hakuba.

In the remark of the YDC the context IMO was clearly "If he would often Henka in the next basho just to win the Yusho THEN his Hinkaku WOULD be questioned" but this is a hypothetical situation.

Cheers

Andreas

[Asashosakari 20,297]

Frankly, it would be 12 for Kise but I would doubt that they would go even lower.

That didn't even do it in the lenient days, assuming by 12 you mean without yusho or at least a playoff (as rare as 12-win playoffs are). That Kashiwado promotion sticks out, of course, but they do like themselves those double promotions.

With yusho it's a somewhat different matter, although even there it has required a strong lead-in (yusho actually) in the case of the two promotions.

The biggest argument against 12 wins being sufficient is probably Kaio's non-promotion after 13-2Y -> 12-3J in 2004, right in the middle of the first "please, can we have an anyone-but-Asashoryu yokozuna?" phase. Tochiazuma's non-promotion with 14-1Y -> 12-3 a year and a half later, right after Asashoryu had demolished the annual-wins record, indicates much the same. I seriously doubt we'll see any bending of the guidelines beyond 13 wins, for anyone.

I suspect the jun-yusho minimum for Baruto is 14-1, this being his first serious run at the promotion. 13-2 in a playoff loss may do it, I dunno.

Edit: And I largely agree with Naganoyama on the YDC - just the usual early headline-grabbing grandstanding by the YDC, no actual substance implied. Don't take it too seriously, folks.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 47,374]

With respect to Hinkaku, however, I think he's rather on the safe site. Has a gentle attitude, is open to the people near his beya (saw some nice videos), has a reputation of trying to avoid injury of the opponent, is reasonably popular in Japan for a European. Compare that to Aran or Hakuba.

I think they mean he should become a bit more serious in everything, like not walking around Roppongi in street clothes (and getting caught) or calling any basho a "game" or henkaing a guy who he overwhelmingly leads in past meetings. His gentle demeanor with his neighbors means nothing. His Sumo demeanor, OTOH, means everything. His MAIN problem at the moment is his hinkaku.

[Kimyouzan 2]

I think that Baruto, as well as Kotooshu and Harumafuji (and Kaio and Chiyotaikai before them) are quite comfortable as Ozeki and don't seem to have any desire to move up to the ultimate rank. None of them are good enough to challenge Hakuho on a regular basis, and as long as that is true they won't be trying their best in a tsuna run.

[Chinonofuji 35]

Fascinating. I thought this was quite cut and dry, i.e. barring a major lack of hinkaku, the bar is set at two yusho in a row. Nothing less, but not much more. After the Konishiki kerfluffle, I thought the YDC showed it was being as tough on Japanese as on anyone else by requiring Takanohana to win twice in a row. Since then, each Yokozuna has cleared that hurdle. (Isn't that right?) I would expect it to be the same now. Baruto certainly has the potential. I personally doubt he will win two in a row at this time, however.

[Kintamayama 47,374]

Edit: And I largely agree with Naganoyama on the YDC - just the usual early headline-grabbing grandstanding by the YDC, no actual substance implied. Don't take it too seriously, folks.

I totally disagreed sir. From Takanohana through Hanaregoma to Tsuruta, the winds are blowing chilly all the way. "Two straight yusho are not a final criteria. Non-promotions even after that have happened before. It's all about the hinkaku," said Tsuruta yesterday.

This was yesterday at the KKan.

Today, the YDC convened. "Even a jun-yusho will be considered. More than 12 wins should do.. (!!!!????)", corrected Tsuruta. I guess the other YDC members didn't agree with Tsuruta's initial remarks yesterday. "Baruto's henka against Kisenosato? He alone shouldn't be condemned. Kisenosato had a strange tachai as well," said committee member Sawamura in defence of Baruto.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,374]

I think that Baruto, as well as Kotooshu and Harumafuji (and Kaio and Chiyotaikai before them) are quite comfortable as Ozeki and don't seem to have any desire to move up to the ultimate rank.

I strongly disagree to this line of thinking. Every rikishi wants to be a Yokozuna. I remember how others said that of Musashimaru back in the day. The current guys just can't cut it. If they could, they would in a flash. And Baruto will because he can.

[Asojima 2,874]

Once again, two consecutive wins are a general guideline which the kyokai can choose to enforce or ignore at its own whim. The yokozuna is the public representative of Ozumo. As such, hinkaku is almost as important as the win margin. They cannot afford another Asashoryu at this point. Baruto is a big, lovable teddy bear who enjoys life and seems to be well liked by all who know him. They want a yokozuna with gravitas.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Asojima

[Jaak 7]

I totally disagreed sir. From Takanohana through Hanaregoma to Tsuruta, the winds are blowing chilly all the way. "Two straight yusho are not a final criteria. Non-promotions even after that have happened before. It's all about the hinkaku," said Tsuruta yesterday.

Exactly 2 such nonpromotions:

Tamanishiki, who was not promoted after as many as 3 consecutive yusho

and Chiyonoyama, who was not promoted after 2 consecutive yusho.

The question is, would Kyokai dare refuse promotions after 2 yusho again?

The 15 ozeki who DID get tsuna for 2 straight yusho include one whose yushos were 13:2-12:3

That was Taiho.

It also includes a yokozuna who never won another yusho after promotion. Wakanohana Masaru.