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Kintamayama

Kyokai elections January 2012-here we go..

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Tatsunami Ichimon will be choosing their representative to become riji tomorrow. Usually, this happens during the Kyushu basho before the elections, but things are kicking off earlier this time. Candidates: Current riji Tomozuna, Isegahama, and Kasugayama. Tatsunami Ichimon have 16 votes, but as 10 votes are needed for each riji spot, they are short for two, hence only one representative. The inside information is that the man most likely to be chosen is Kasugayama, who is backed by the young oyakatas. Last elections, their two candidates were Tomozuna and Ooshima, but due to the "rebellion" and loss of two votes, only Tomozuna made it in.

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FWIW, they might have one more vote by the time the election comes around, in case the tate-gyoji situation gets sorted out between Kyushu and Hatsu. The two sanyaku-kaku gyoji who haven't already declined the promotion are both from Tatsunami-ichimon.

(As is the soon-retiring Shonosuke, and no less than four of the eight makuuchi gyoji. Somehow one ichimon managed to end up with 7 of the 13 currently highest gyoji...)

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Current voting numbers if the usual ground rules apply:

30 Dewanoumi: 31 oyakata [-1 borrowed from outside]

24 Nishonoseki: 22 oyakata [+1 loaned to outside], Kotoshogiku (+ ozeki Kisenosato?)

18 Tatsunami: 16 oyakata [+2 loaned to outside] (+ next Shikimori Inosuke?)

16 Tokitsukaze: 17 oyakata [-2 borrowed from outside], Kimura Shonosuke (+ vacant Katsunoura?)

13 Takasago: 13 oyakata [+1 loaned to / -1 borrowed from outside]

7 Takanohana: 7 oyakata

The cross-ichimon loans are for Musashimaru (Furiwake, from Takasago to Dewanoumi), Toki (Oshiogawa, from Nishonoseki to Takasago), Kirinishiki (Ikazuchi, from Tatsunami to Tokitsukaze) and Shikishima (Ajigawa, from Tatsunami to Tokitsukaze). There's some question about the share held by Kinkaiyama, which is owned by retired ex-renegade Maenoyama. He and Akinoshima allied with Dewanoumi last time, but after the heya changeover Akinoshima took the stable into Nishonoseki. Most opinions I've read put Maenoyama's loyalties still with Dewanoumi, so that's where I'm counting his share.

Given that there are currently just 7 occupied riji positions due to the yaocho punishments for Kitanoumi, Kokonoe and Michinoku, and furthermore that 3 of the 7 won't be running again for age reasons (plus possibly Dewanoumi for health reasons), it's difficult for any ichimon to claim that they have a right to a particular number of positions on the next board. Thanks to the Takanohana wildcard everyone's at risk, even Dewanoumi's customary 3 director slots. Of course, it's possible that everyone is so afraid of leaking votes to the Takanohana camp again that all six groups will settle this amicably somehow.

There's no "obvious" configuration though (3/2/1/1/1/1 leaves us one short), and I'd be a bit surprised if Tatsunami didn't try to take back their second slot, which they lost last time to either Takanohana or the Tokitsukaze/Takasago voting coalition depending on how you look at it.

All three deputy riji positions will be in play as well as the current holders all turn 65 in 2013 and can't run again, so that's another realm for strategic alliances. Last time, the aforementioned T/T coalition served to elect a second Tokitsukaze riji in exchange for putting a Takasago guy at the deputy level (into a spot previously held by Tokitsukaze, who basically "upgraded" with the help of Takasago).

And the elephant in the room is the organizational direction of the Kyokai. The head honchos met on Wednesday but unsurprisingly still couldn't reach a decision about how to handle the kabu issue (mass buy-back and central management in the future which are likely required for tax-favoured status, or leave things as is and become a for-profit company). They do want to come to a conclusion on Monday, which has prompted the rank-and-file oyakata to call a meeting of their own for today (Friday); the board is reportedly split about 50/50 with rijicho Hanaregoma and external deputy rijicho Murayama on the reform side, while the regular oyakata remain overwhelmingly in favour of the status quo. Since Hanaregoma is one of the directors being timed out by his age, it's well possible that prospective rijicho successors will make this whole thing an election issue. The worst-case scenario here would be rank-and-file oyakatas crossing ichimon lines en masse during the voting if the candidates from their own group don't support their favoured view.

In other words, possibly an even more fun-filled three months than we had two years ago. Or maybe they'll all kumbaya into a grand agreement and none of what I've just written will matter, but I kind of doubt it.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Talk about one big incestuous relationship. Maybe this should take place in Utah?

Every time I hear about this stuff it reminds me of cousins marrying.

...

Not that there's anything wrong with that..... See: Royal Families of Europe, late 19th and early 20th centuries.....

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And the elephant in the room is the organizational direction of the Kyokai. The head honchos met on Wednesday but unsurprisingly still couldn't reach a decision about how to handle the kabu issue (mass buy-back and central management in the future which are likely required for tax-favoured status, or leave things as is and become a for-profit company). They do want to come to a conclusion on Monday, which has prompted the rank-and-file oyakata to call a meeting of their own for today (Friday); the board is reportedly split about 50/50 with rijicho Hanaregoma and external deputy rijicho Murayama on the reform side, while the regular oyakata remain overwhelmingly in favour of the status quo. Since Hanaregoma is one of the directors being timed out by his age, it's well possible that prospective rijicho successors will make this whole thing an election

Some voices coming out from those ranks in favor of leaving the "public" part altogether and becoming a "regular" enterprise, which is rather interesting.

As a reminder- the riji numbers - 9-13 riji (10 from sumo and 3 outsiders max). Currently - 7 from sumo and 2 outsiders-the bare minimum.

Edited by Kintamayama

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Talk about one big incestuous relationship. Maybe this should take place in Utah?

Every time I hear about this stuff it reminds me of cousins marrying.

...

Not that there's anything wrong with that..... See: Royal Families of Europe, late 19th and early 20th centuries.....

As usual, your grasp of facts is somewhat tenuous...

350px-Cousin_marriage_map1.svg.png

Legal in states colored dark blue, legal with requirements or exceptions in states colored light blue (Wikipedia)

Edited by Otokonoyama

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Current voting numbers if the usual ground rules apply:

30 Dewanoumi: 31 oyakata [-1 borrowed from outside]

23 Nishonoseki: 22 oyakata, Kotoshogiku (+ ozeki Kisenosato?)

18 Tatsunami: 16 oyakata [+2 loaned to outside] (+ next Shikimori Inosuke?)

16 Tokitsukaze: 17 oyakata [-2 borrowed from outside], Kimura Shonosuke (+ vacant Katsunoura?)

14 Takasago: 13 oyakata [+1 loaned to outside]

7 Takanohana: 7 oyakata

The cross-ichimon loans are for Musashimaru (Furiwake, from Takasago to Dewanoumi), Kirinishiki (Ikazuchi, from Tatsunami to Tokitsukaze) and Shikishima (Ajigawa, from Tatsunami to Tokitsukaze). There's some question about the share held by Kinkaiyama, which is owned by retired ex-renegade Maenoyama. He and Akinoshima allied with Dewanoumi last time, but after the heya changeover Akinoshima took the stable into Nishonoseki. Most opinions I've read put Maenoyama's loyalties still with Dewanoumi, so that's where I'm counting his share.

Thank you very much for your sum up, Asashosakari - very comprehensive and appreciated. But haven

Edited by Pikenoyama

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Talk about one big incestuous relationship. Maybe this should take place in Utah?

You've got your stereotypes sideways. Cousins marrying is supposed to be a rural Southern thing. The Utah stereotype is polygamy.

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Thank you very much for your sum up, Asashosakari - very comprehensive and appreciated. But haven

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Good thing Doreen hasn't been by yet, as I just noticed another oops...it's not Dewanoumi with the health issues of course, but Musashigawa. He's leaving the board anyway being one of the three riji who have less than two years until retirement, Dewanoumi can still run for another two-year assignment.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Due to continued massive opposition to the kabu buy-back plan even after Hanaregoma-rijicho took charge of a blackboard to personally outline the differences between the tax-favoured "public interest" and regular corporation status in today's all-hands meeting, it now appears that he is willing to defer the final decision to the next board and rijicho who will be elected at the end of January. The fact that the board is currently quite short at just 7+2 members and thus much less representative of the overall membership than usual appears to be partly responsible for the resistance of the regular oyakata, not that this issue wasn't contentious anyway.

The Kyokai's application for the public-interest conversion process is tentatively scheduled to be made by next June, but this will likely open the doors to a serious discussion about the possible merits and demerits of going with regular for-profit status instead, which hasn't really happened until now, and make this issue a definite election topic. At least Hanaregoma isn't running again anyway so he won't suffer the ignominy of being deposed in a kabu skirmish like Sakaigawa-rijicho was in the 1998 election...

The Ministry of Etc. is set to receive a Kyokai progress report about its overall reform plans at the end of October, and a decision about kabu reform was supposed to be part of it. That's apparently not going to happen now - we'll know for sure after the committee meeting on Monday - and I do wonder how that's going to go over. Then again it's not actually the same minister now that it was before the summer, so who knows.

The man at the center of it all, on the way to today's meeting:

PN2011101401000857.-.-.CI0003.jpg

Edited by Asashosakari

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Talk about one big incestuous relationship. Maybe this should take place in Utah?

You've got your stereotypes sideways. Cousins marrying is supposed to be a rural Southern thing. The Utah stereotype is polygamy.

Um, I knew that...... (Holiday feeling...)

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Tatsunami Ichimon will be choosing their representative to become riji tomorrow. Usually, this happens during the Kyushu basho before the elections, but things are kicking off earlier this time. Candidates: Current riji Tomozuna, Isegahama, and Kasugayama. Tatsunami Ichimon have 16 votes, but as 10 votes are needed for each riji spot, they are short for two, hence only one representative. The inside information is that the man most likely to be chosen is Kasugayama, who is backed by the young oyakatas. Last elections, their two candidates were Tomozuna and Ooshima, but due to the "rebellion" and loss of two votes, only Tomozuna made it in.

And the biennial season of confusion gets into swing early with a Saturday morning Sports Hochi update claiming that Kasugayama's nomination is now official, while Sanspo and Daily Sports are saying that the ichimon members couldn't settle on a candidate and will try again during the regularly-scheduled meeting on November 21.

Sports Hochi did upgrade the group to its correct number of 18 voters over yesterday's news agency story and already speculates that an alliance with another ichimon may be afoot. Daily Sports isn't going quite that far yet, but does indicate that a desire to nominate two candidates is behind the delay until next month.

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Good thing Doreen hasn't been by yet, as I just noticed another oops...it's not Dewanoumi with the health issues of course, but Musashigawa. He's leaving the board anyway being one of the three riji who have less than two years until retirement, Dewanoumi can still run for another two-year assignment.

I had been by, but "He looks all right to me, but I'd better take another look" isn't much of an answer, so I kept quiet pending more information. Glad it was an Oops moment.

Doreen

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For what it's worth - tabloid Shukan Jitsuwa claims that the reform committee's suggestion that Kyokai directors cannot run stables was adopted in the most recent board meeting and will be implemented for the crop of directors that are being elected/re-elected in February. We'll have to see if this goes anywhere...

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Talk about one big incestuous relationship. Maybe this should take place in Utah?

You've got your stereotypes sideways. Cousins marrying is supposed to be a rural Southern thing. The Utah stereotype is polygamy.

Um, I knew that...... :-)

Then your little quip or whatever it was supposed to be makes no sense at all.

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As expected, the committee meeting on the 17th signed off on delaying the kabu handling decision. Also under discussion was the board makeup for the new system, and they reportedly have decided that there will be more external than internal directors in the future. This doesn't apply for the upcoming election yet, but assuming the Kyokai manages to complete the organizational conversion it'll be the last time the ichimons will be able to elect 10 directors from among their oyakata. (Haven't seen any concrete numbers, but I suspect the total number of directors won't be higher than 13, so at most 6 oyakata...) The committee will meet next on December 9.

BTW, after doing some reading I'll need to backtrack from my insinuation that the alternative to the public interest status would be a for-profit organization. That alternative would also be in the non-profit realm, but with substantially fewer restrictions on how the organization can structure itself. The downside is that that type doesn't come with the public-interest tax breaks.

Via Wikipedia:

Corporations formed as Non-Profit Organization:

General Association & General Foundation, providing club goods is allowed, though these 2 types are oriented to provide public goods:

一般社団法人 (ippan-shadan-hōjin) - incorporated association, which needs one member, though 2 members when establishment, at least

一般財団法人 (ippan-zaidan-hōjin) - incorporated foundation, which needs asset of 3 million yen at least

Public Association & Public Foundation, are the above 2 types given some advantages such as tax exemption and licensed to have "公益" (koueki, public) in its name after the Certification of Public Benefit:

公益社団法人 (koueki-shadan-hōjin)- incorporated public association

公益財団法人 (koueki-zaidan-hōjin)- incorporated public foundation

The Kyokai is going for public foundation status, with general foundation as the fallback position. Basically, they need to become a general foundation, and then need to apply to have their public benefit status certified. The issue now is whether that's worth doing. The relevant piece of law is the Act on Authorization of Public Interest Incorporated Associations and Public Interest Incorporated Foundations, and if you're as nuts as I am, you can peruse an English translation of it at the link. This is a companion law to the "Act on General Incorporated Associations and General Incorporated Foundations", which defines the ground rules for all four sub-types and unfortunately doesn't seem to have any translation around, but from what I can tell it's mostly (a whole lot of) administrivia...the basic thrust of rewriting the rules on non-profit organizations was to make them easier to register (if a bunch of you wanted to found a Sumo Superfans Association, you can do that now as an ippan shadan hojin with relatively little effort), while the old system was geared very much towards allowing non-profit organizations only as public-benefit types.

In other words, changing the Kyokai's status to comply with the new laws won't be all that difficult (so there's no danger of the Kyokai having to close up shop completely in 2013 or anything), the catch is entirely in whether they'll manage to maintain their tax-favoured public benefit status under the new rules.

Edited by Asashosakari

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To add two things: 1) I'm not fully sure, but I think that rumour a few months ago that the Kyokai would need to forfeit its entire holdings including the Kokugikan if they became "only" a general foundation was bogus. We'll hear about that one way or another again if they become serious about not going for public interest status after all.

The bigger issue might be that the public-interest law stipulates the forfeiture of property if the public interest status is granted and then later revoked again, so the Kyokai really needs to remain scandal-free in the future if they go for the public interest designation. (Only the property acquired while holding the status though, I think, but of course that could still be a lot after a few years.)

And 2) If my reading of the law is correct, the Kyokai might be getting away from supervision by MEXT anyway - all certification of public interest entities is supposed to be handled by a single Cabinet-level commission that is to be appointed by the Prime Minister, not by individual ministries as is the case under the old system.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Might as well pull up this thread as well - it's being reported that the late Naruto-oyakata was rijicho Hanaregoma's desired successor for his director slot from among the Nishonoseki-ichimon ranks and that the group was likely to go along with that. They'll have to look for another candidate now, which makes it two as their other director Nishonoseki himself is also being timed out by the age limit.

Considering that Takanohana "stealing" the slot that was originally spoken for Naruto two years ago was what caused the rift between the ichimon and his breakaway group, I can't help but wonder if we're now going to see some reconciliation and Takanohana brought up as an official ichimon candidate. The ichimon would easily be able to get three candidates elected again and Taka wouldn't have to rely on/hope for outside support to make it (and would probably stand a better chance in the rijicho election as well), so on the purely political level it's a win-win situation. Whether the various characters involved see it that way, too, is a different question of course.

Edited by Asashosakari

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Nishonoseki Ichimon are going with Oguruma and Tateyama. It will be announced formally at the Ichimon meeting tomorrow.Originally, they were going with Oguruma and Naruto, but because of the new circumstances, are now going with Tateyama instead of Naruto. At present the Nishonoseki delegates are Hanaregoma and Nishonoseki but they both will soon reach the mandatory retirement age of 65 so there.

Edited by Kintamayama

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I guess that means that couldn't really agree on a proper new second candidate - Tateyama turns 62 in a few days and so is an obvious stopgap solution for just a single two-year period.

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I guess that means that couldn't really agree on a proper new second candidate - Tateyama turns 62 in a few days and so is an obvious stopgap solution for just a single two-year period.

Not that the new first candidate would be any better... Twice-demoted Oguruma (2009 for Wakakirin's drug use, 2011 for Yaochogate) is not even an iin at the moment but only shunin.

And what are the odds that he will become head of the Lifestyle Guidance department? (Sign of approval...)

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Not that the new first candidate would be any better... Twice-demoted Oguruma (2009 for Wakakirin's drug use, 2011 for Yaochogate) is not even an iin at the moment but only shunin.

Maybe they expect Hoshikaze to be rehabilitated any day now. (Sign of approval...)

Edit: And it sure looks like it's going to be election d

Edited by Asashosakari

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Nishonoseki Ichimon are going with Oguruma and Tateyama. It will be announced formally at the Ichimon meeting tomorrow.

Now formal, for those who are keeping score.

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In the biggest non-surprise of the election season, Takanohana has now officially announced that he's running for re-election. His group is at 7 sure votes just like two years ago (Takatoriki out, Kobo in), so he'll need outside support again. Taka's right-hand man Magaki believes they currently have 9 votes sewn up, one short of what's typically thought as the necessary number.

Of course it's still possible that there will only be 10 candidates and thus no need for voting ballots. If they do vote, it's going to happen on January 30, today's board meeting confirmed.

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