New yaocho prevention committee

[Kintamayama 44,345]

The committee temporarily called the Relapse Prevention Committee, or RPC was officially established today. 8 members in all:

Outside Members: Chairman of the Japanese Golf Association (interesting..) and ex-chairman of the Japan Amateur Sports Association, 77 year old Takayuki Anzai, Japanese Pro-sports Association chairman and ex-Agricultural Minister 76 year old Yoshinobu Shimamura and 74 year old ex Public Prosecutor and Kyokai vice-chairman, our friend Mr. Murayama, better known as Temprij.

From the sumo side, we find Dewanoumi Oyakata, Nakamura Oyakata, Shibatayama (known also as 'bash the foreigner and fire him, then bake a cake") Oyakata, Tamanoi Oyakata, and Tatekawa Oyakata (ex-Tosanoumi, wow..). "Mr. Anzai and Mr. Shimamura are deeply involved in sports so we are happy to have them on board. I chose the members!" declared Hanaregoma rijicho at the inaugural press conference today. "The aim of the committee is to eradicate lethargic sumo and to prevent it ever happening again. They will attempt to approach the issue from all aspects and hopefully will be able to prevent this re-occurring," he added. The chosen Oyakata are from different age groups as promised- two are in their sixties, one in his forties, and two in their thirties. "There is no pattern, I chose them randomly. I'd like the committee to have as wide a range of views as possible," summed the rijicho.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Kotoku 0]

The committee temporarily called the Relapse Prevention Committee, or RPC was officially established today. 8 members in all:

Outside Members: Chairman of the Japanese Golf Association (interesting..) and ex-chairman of the Japan Amateur Sports Association, 77 year old Takayuki Anzai, Japanese Pro-sports Association chairman and ex-Agricultural Minister 76 year old Yoshinobu Shimamura and 74 year old ex Public Prosecutor and Kyokai vice-chairman, our friend Mr. Murayama, better known as Temprij.

From the sumo side, we find Dewanoumi Oyakata, Nakamura Oyakata, Shibatayama (known also as 'bash the foreigner and fire him, then bake a cake") Oyakata, Tamanoi Oyakata, and Tatekawa Oyakata (ex-Tosanoumi, wow..). "Mr. Anzai and Mr. Shimamura are deeply involved in sports so we are happy to have them on board. I chose the members!" declared Hanaregoma rijicho at the inaugural press conference today. "The aim of the committee is to eradicate lethargic sumo and to prevent it ever happening again. They will attempt to approach the issue from all aspects and hopefully will be able to prevent this re-occurring," he added. The chosen Oyakata are from different age groups as promised- two are in their sixties, one in his forties, and two in their thirties. "There is no pattern, I chose them randomly. I'd like the committee to have as wide a range of views as possible," summed the rijicho.

Good old Shibatayama... he was always grumpy when I headed over to Ogikubo for a dose of asa geiko...

[Peterao 3]

The committee temporarily called the Relapse Prevention Committee, or RPC was officially established today. 8 members in all:

Outside Members: Chairman of the Japanese Golf Association (interesting..) and ex-chairman of the Japan Amateur Sports Association, 77 year old Takayuki Anzai, Japanese Pro-sports Association chairman and ex-Agricultural Minister 76 year old Yoshinobu Shimamura and 74 year old ex Public Prosecutor and Kyokai vice-chairman, our friend Mr. Murayama, better known as Temprij.

From the sumo side, we find Dewanoumi Oyakata, Nakamura Oyakata, Shibatayama (known also as 'bash the foreigner and fire him, then bake a cake") Oyakata, Tamanoi Oyakata, and Tatekawa Oyakata (ex-Tosanoumi, wow..). "Mr. Anzai and Mr. Shimamura are deeply involved in sports so we are happy to have them on board. I chose the members!" declared Hanaregoma rijicho at the inaugural press conference today. "The aim of the committee is to eradicate lethargic sumo and to prevent it ever happening again. They will attempt to approach the issue from all aspects and hopefully will be able to prevent this re-occurring," he added. The chosen Oyakata are from different age groups as promised- two are in their sixties, one in his forties, and two in their thirties. "There is no pattern, I chose them randomly. I'd like the committee to have as wide a range of views as possible," summed the rijicho.

Good old Shibatayama... he was always grumpy when I headed over to Ogikubo for a dose of asa geiko...

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches. Of course, that assumes that rikishi would have no way of determining their next bouts through informal channels, and do not engage in long-term planning irrespective of which particular day they meet up with a partner rikishi...

[Kintamayama 44,345]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches. Of course, that assumes that rikishi would have no way of determining their next bouts through informal channels, and do not engage in long-term planning irrespective of which particular day they meet up with a partner rikishi...

Thereby ruining our daily games..

[Kintamayama 44,345]

"Ever since I was a kid I did sumo. I used to sleep over at Futagoyama beya and Futabayama dojo. I have visited many a heya and heard good things and bad things about sumo..Sumo is ill and we have to try to cure it. The important part comes now. We will do our utmost to prevent a relapse and work towards holding Natsu basho for sure!! ", said outside member Mr. Shimamura.

[Kotoviki 16]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches. Of course, that assumes that rikishi would have no way of determining their next bouts through informal channels, and do not engage in long-term planning irrespective of which particular day they meet up with a partner rikishi...

Thereby ruining our daily games..

Indeed ruining our games.. but also making hell for any parents who want to see their kids in the lower divisions!

It wouldn't make any difference in the sekitori ranks because they have a match every day but if they make all torikumi not known til the day then a lot of parents won't be able to come!! (Blushing...)

Some like Jonidan Shuho's father who is chief of police in Nagoya who finds out if his son has a match one or two days before depending on when the torikumi is released and then takes the all night bus to arrive in Tokyo in the morning for his son's match and leaves when it is over and takes a bus or shinkansen back to work...

Or even Tokyo based parents like Jonidan Hamadayama's mother who works as a swimming pool cleaner. Her boss will let her move her day off accordingly with a day's notice or so. She has to work at 6:00am so if she didn't know until the morning of the match she couldn't change her day off with a co-worker.

What a shame for the lower divisions.. as it is now their parents can't see them from the 1st floor, after this their parents can't see them from the 2nd floor either.

Of course we can only blame the boys caught doing yaocho for this....

[Asashosakari 18,783]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches. Of course, that assumes that rikishi would have no way of determining their next bouts through informal channels, and do not engage in long-term planning irrespective of which particular day they meet up with a partner rikishi...

Which is exactly why it's merely the sumo equivalent of "security through obscurity" and not really a sensible suggestion at all...

[Peterao 3]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches. Of course, that assumes that rikishi would have no way of determining their next bouts through informal channels, and do not engage in long-term planning irrespective of which particular day they meet up with a partner rikishi...

Which is exactly why it's merely the sumo equivalent of "security through obscurity" and not really a sensible suggestion at all...

"Most sensible" does not necessarily mean "sensible" (like saying "Takanoiwa is the most dominant rikishi from Takanohana-beya") But it's an easy suggestion to implement that does make it more difficult for rikishi to collaborate, and I think it's the only yaocho prevention suggestion thusfar that's an improvement on doing nothing at all.

And I disagree that it would ruin the daily sumo games, though it may skew things in favor of those living in a more favorable time zone. (Blushing...)

[Kotoviki 16]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches. Of course, that assumes that rikishi would have no way of determining their next bouts through informal channels, and do not engage in long-term planning irrespective of which particular day they meet up with a partner rikishi...

Which is exactly why it's merely the sumo equivalent of "security through obscurity" and not really a sensible suggestion at all...

"Most sensible" does not necessarily mean "sensible" (like saying "Takanoiwa is the most dominant rikishi from Takanohana-beya") But it's an easy suggestion to implement that does make it more difficult for rikishi to collaborate, and I think it's the only yaocho prevention suggestion thusfar that's an improvement on doing nothing at all.

And I disagree that it would ruin the daily sumo games, though it may skew things in favor of those living in a more favorable time zone. (On the banzuke...)

and anyone who would already be watching the matches at 0830 in the kokugikan (or other venue) wouldn't be able to enter any games..

[Asashosakari 18,783]

But it's an easy suggestion to implement that does make it more difficult for rikishi to collaborate, and I think it's the only yaocho prevention suggestion thusfar that's an improvement on doing nothing at all.

An odd follow-up, given that YOU already outlined several reasons why it would be a pretty pointless change in the post I responded to. But then Kintamayama has futilely chased you around the block a few times already on the "pointless changes are worse than doing nothing" issue...

Unless they're going to drastically revamp the scheduling process, there are only two-and-a-half ways in which to implement the suggestion in question:

a) Produce the schedule on the day before as usual - although perhaps later than they do now, for instance after the bouts even for makuuchi - then hope no information leaks. Total wishcasting, and likely to put rikishi at a disadvantage who aren't lucky enough to have a heya oyakata on the judging committee.

b) Produce the schedule in the very early morning, because after 9am parts of the judging group will be busy around the dohyo at all times. Feel free to pick whether this should lead to b1) publishing the schedule right at this point, i.e. 9am, or b2) holding it back to later in the day, because the issues will be only marginally less than in the case of a).

Just to re-emphasize the most important point about the yaocho scandal: Rikishi were not routinely selling wins for money. The prices being assessed for bookkeeping purposes are so high that the great majority of all those wins are necessarily paid back in kind soon after. Unless rikishi are scheduled in a completely different manner and not just at a different (later) time, there will always be potential for shenanigans - there's just too much predictability in who's meeting whom across a full basho. The easiest approach of them all (for the rikishi) would simply be some general planning before the basho combined with non-verbal communication right before the bouts. The new state of their "accounts" can always be settled afterwards with only marginal loss of convenience to what we've seen in the text messages.

More early bouts between rikishi with markedly differing objectives for the basho could help a bit, e.g. starting off the tournament with J1e-J8e, J1w-J8w etc. instead of J1e-J1w, J2e-J2w. That would leave more bouts between "similar" rikishi for the later days when they might actually both need the wins, instead of schedules like we have now where promotion and demotion candidates must be put against opponents who are in mid-juryo no man's land because all direct confrontations were already used up earlier in the basho. It's just silly that the potentially most suspenseful matchups between rikishi fighting for the same goals are exhausted before they start to matter. They'd never have a yokozuna-yokozuna bout on Day 3, why elsewhere? (But even reducing the predictability of the schedule like that would only be a small component of the fight against mutually beneficial match-fixing/win-trading, I'm not claiming a perfect solution here, or even part of one.)

[Kotoviki 16]

I really like this idea! You are so right!! It is very predictable for the most part and it would be better to mix it up at the beginning to throw everyone off guard!! I like it!!!

More early bouts between rikishi with markedly differing objectives for the basho could help a bit, e.g. starting off the tournament with J1e-J8e, J1w-J8w etc. instead of J1e-J1w, J2e-J2w. That would leave more bouts between "similar" rikishi for the later days when they might actually both need the wins, instead of schedules like we have now where promotion and demotion candidates must be put against opponents who are in mid-juryo no man's land because all direct confrontations were already used up earlier in the basho. It's just silly that the potentially most suspenseful matchups between rikishi fighting for the same goals are exhausted before they start to matter. They'd never have a yokozuna-yokozuna bout on Day 3, why elsewhere? (But even reducing the predictability of the schedule like that would only be a small component of the fight against mutually beneficial match-fixing/win-trading, I'm not claiming a perfect solution here, or even part of one.)

[Kintamayama 44,345]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches.

Shibatayama has elaborated on his three-pronged plan today:

1. Taking away all sekitori mobile phones during a basho. "This is what started this whole mess, so it's natural we start with that," he explained. This suggestion will certainly be met with a lot of opposition by the rikishi who will not be able to communicate with family, friends and koenkai members.

2. Torikumi announced the same day. Today, Makuuchi is announced the morning before and Juryo the evening before. Ample time to plan stuff. This plan will shorten that time.

3. During a basho, the rikishi will be isolated. "I don't know how far we can go with this, but we have to consider it," said Shibatayama. It is possible to rearrange the shitakubeya at the KKan, but the other venues are more difficult to control. They could bring in people to watch over the rikishi (so they don't interact) or they can make the tsukebito wear different color pants for the east and west shitakubeya, so it will be easy to spot any person entering from the other side.

"I don't know what the sumo world will be like from now on, but we have to eliminate all unfairness!" summed the cakebaker maker.

What is he cooking up for sumo?:

Edited March 1, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Peterao 3]

A good start, but doesn't go quite far enough. During honbasho, a sekitori should be sequestered at the Metropolitan Hotel like jurists on an important case, and guarded by SECOM to ensure no contact with anyone in a private setting, from Shonichi to Senshuraku.

[Chiyozakura 130]

So far, Shibatayama seems to have raised the most sensible suggestion: do not make the torikumi known until the day of the matches.

Shibatayama has elaborated on his three-pronged plan today:

1. Taking away all sekitori mobile phones during a basho. "This is what started this whole mess, so it's natural we start with that," he explained. This suggestion will certainly be met with a lot of opposition by the rikishi who will not be able to communicate with family, friends and koenkai members.

2. Torikumi announced the same day. Today, Makuuchi is announced the morning before and Juryo the evening before. Ample time to plan stuff. This plan will shorten that time.

3. During a basho, the rikishi will be isolated. "I don't know how far we can go with this, but we have to consider it," said Shibatayama. It is possible to rearrange the shitakubeya at the KKan, but the other venues are more difficult to control. They could bring in people to watch over the rikishi (so they don't interact) or they can make the tsukebito wear different color pants for the east and west shitakubeya, so it will be easy to spot any person entering from the other side.

"I don't know what the sumo world will be like from now on, but we have to eliminate all unfairness!" summed the cakebaker maker.

This sounds so ridiculous. Is it April Fool's Day already? You want to forbid grown up men a cell phone? Announcing the torikumi the same day will not bring much. Sekitori basically know who they will face in the course of a basho so you can still make plans on a big scale. Or you make the torikumi totally random. Musubinoichiban on senshuraku is Hakuho vs Moriurara. As he did not expect that he probably could not have bought him so we will see good and fair sumo. Well, at least it does not sound as impossible to implement as #1 and 3. I mean, how do they want to make sure for example non of Harumafuji's tsukebito will be placed on the other side of the dohyo and thus in the opposite shitakubeya on a given day? Sounds like torikumi making will become a complicated job.

[ryafuji 807]

A good start, but doesn't go quite far enough. During honbasho, a sekitori should be sequestered at the Metropolitan Hotel like jurists on an important case, and guarded by SECOM to ensure no contact with anyone in a private setting, from Shonichi to Senshuraku.

This guy is a comedy genius. That's hilarious.

[ilovesumo 12]

This sounds so ridiculous. Is it April Fool's Day already? You want to forbid grown up men a cell phone? Announcing the torikumi the same day will not bring much. Sekitori basically know who they will face in the course of a basho so you can still make plans on a big scale. Or you make the torikumi totally random.

Yep, it does...

Maybe they should all wear hidden microphones and shackles?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhm, I guess all this will make many more young boys join Sumo...

They shouldn't forget about the main problem - Sumo is not attractive anymore, so adding any BS like this will make it worse.

Going into the wrong direction I'd say.

[Peterao 3]

This sounds so ridiculous. Is it April Fool's Day already? You want to forbid grown up men a cell phone? Announcing the torikumi the same day will not bring much. Sekitori basically know who they will face in the course of a basho so you can still make plans on a big scale. Or you make the torikumi totally random.

Yep, it does...

Maybe they should all wear hidden microphones and shackles?

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhm, I guess all this will make many more young boys join Sumo...

They shouldn't forget about the main problem - Sumo is not attractive anymore, so adding any BS like this will make it worse.

Going into the wrong direction I'd say.

Bollucks. The problem they have is getting people interested in watching sumo, not getting people to participate.

Discounting other countries, there are still millions of men available in the target age group for joining sumo. You only need a small fraction of a small fraction of a small fraction of those people to join to keep sumo viable. If the indentured servant lifestyle wasn't enough to keep people away now, then I believe that there will always be people willing to join no matter how Draconian the crackdown becomes... maybe even more would be interested if they knew they could become part of the historic first wave of all-gachinko wrestlers.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Peterao

[Asashosakari 18,783]

The focus on cell phones is silly anyway. It's not like the rikishi were calling each other from one wing of the Kokugikan to the other five minutes before their fixed bout. These guys have private homes in Tokyo and get to use hotel rooms in the other three locations; unless they're too dumb to operate a netbook equipped with Skype (or, gasp, a simple email client) and have also forgotten how to use land-based phone lines, you're never going to cut off communications for those who are determined enough.

Edit: BTW, apparently it's even part of the Kyokai's written endowment regulations that matches must be announced a day early. Could be changed by director vote, of course, but that idea is a bit more involved than it might appear at first glance.

Edited March 2, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 44,345]

The committee temporarily called the Relapse Prevention Committee, or RPC was officially established today. 8 members in all:

The official name of the committee was decided upon today. Henceforth it shall be known as Lucas. Just kidding. Ozumo Rebirth Committee (Commission, whichever works) is the name. They decided on a six-pronged plan:

1. Keeping a closer scrutiny on things with inspections. After each day's bout members of the Inspection committee and the judging committee will review all the bouts and mark them for fighting spirit.

2. Shitakubeya under closer scrutiny. All rikishi movements there will be scrutinized by members of the Inspection committee.

3. Establishing a telephone hotline (Snitchphone)

4. Punishment for intentional lethargic sumo will be seriously implemented. Not only those that actually participated in the yaocho, but anyone else involved (go-betweens etc..) will be punished as well.

5. Induction courses for Heya-owning Oyakata and heya-attached Oyakata on leadership.

6. Induction courses for rikishi, preparing them for Juryo and Makuuchi promotions.

Banning cellphones and changing the time of torikumi announcements were discussed but no decisions were made.

They will be finalizing all their decisions in their coming meetings and will formally present them to the Kyokai.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 18,783]

Guess the reintroduction of kosho has already died in committee...

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Full disclosure of sumo's bout-rigging scandal will be a prerequisite for holding the Summer Grand Sumo Tournament, Sports Minister Yoshiaki Takaki said following a request by the Yokozuna Promotion Council to resume sumo tournaments in May.

Takaki reiterated his position during a press conference on March 11, saying, "It is necessary to gain public understanding for a sumo tournament to be held, and it is urged that the whole picture (of the match-fixing scandal) be clarified as soon as possible."

The Yokozuna Promotion Council -- an advisory panel to the Japan Sumo Association (JSA) -- had filed a request with the JSA on March 10 that sumo tournaments be resumed from the Summer Grand Sumo Tournament scheduled for May. The request was adopted unanimously at the council's extraordinary meeting at Ryogoku Kokugikan in Tokyo.

Although Takaki acknowledged that the council's request "represents the opinions of some sumo fans," the minister expressed reservations for an early resumption of tournaments, saying, "As we haven't got the investigation results yet, we are not at a stage to decide whether to open the summer tournament or not."

Continued here

[Asashosakari 18,783]

The whateverit'scalled committee will meet on the 30th to finalize their yaocho prevention proposals.

[Peterao 3]

The whateverit'scalled committee will meet on the 30th to finalize their yaocho prevention proposals.

This didn't happen, as they rightly considered it weird to finalize things before the investigation report comes out. The next date has not yet been set, further dimming the chances of the Kyokai getting all their ducks in a row before the scheduled basho presale date of the 9th.

[Kintamayama 44,345]

The next date has not yet been set, further dimming the chances of the Kyokai getting all their ducks in a row before the scheduled basho presale date of the 9th.

Today, right now, and it looks like the return of kosho suggestion is back on the table. Results soon.

[Peterao 3]

The eight suggestions put forward:

1. After the matches (or "after the match"?), shinpan and yaocho inspectors meet to discuss possibility of yaocho.

2. Yaocho inspectors check to ensure no go-betweens come into the dressing room.

3. The installation of an information hotline for sharing information.

4. Increase and clarify the punishments for yaocho in the future.

5. Implement training institution for oyakata

6. Implement training institution for rikishi

7. Reimplement the kosho system

8. Implement a system to encourage fighting spirit.

This is the best they could come up with after over a month? It's all pretty inoffensive stuff that nobody should have a problem with doing, since it will barely cramp anybody's style. Not even a single thing to discourage cell phone use...

Edited April 7, 2011 by Peterao