Fusensho and kyujo rules

[Jaak 7]

Fusensho rules state that fusensho winner has to show up and raise his leg on the dohyo.

How often has it happened that two wrestlers are both seriously injured in separate matches so when they are scheduled to meet, neither of them is able to reach the dohyo? And when it happens, what are the effects on scores? A loss for both?

Then again, raising a leg on dohyo involves just feet and is easier than serious wrestling. Say, a wrestler with both his arms in slings but mostly functional below the waist would not be capable of serious wrestling against a healthy opponent. But when the scheduled opponent happens to be seriously injured and kyujo, will any rikishi show up purely to perform leg raising to claim the fusensho win, and then give fusenpai to the next (healthy) opponent?

Fusensho counts as win for score purposes - but does not give kinboshi. In case of fusensho, are kensho bestowed?

Say that both opponents are moderately or seriously injured. What are the reactions when both opponents are trying to avoid getting more hurt and not obviously eager to gambarize?

Asashoryu notoriously missed some training when going to Mongolia to recover from injuries, and then played ball in Mongolia. I believe there was a famous yokozuna in early 20th century who also played ball while injured. How common are fusenpai and kyujo where the seriousness of the underlying injury is doubted by some?

Have there been any kyujo decisions where compensation from scheduled opponent is the more important consideration than injury, if any?

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

I don't want to discourage your curiosity, but did you search (as in forum search feature) for some of the answers that you are looking for, like, at all?

The Yokozuna you are looking for is Maedayama, who didn't participate in but visited a baseball game while officially kyujo. It didn't help him that this was in Hawaii with an American team involved shortly after WWII.

Edit sez: wrong facts removed.

Edited February 12, 2011 by yorikiried by fate

[madorosumaru 7]

From a post on July 28, 2007:

In 1949, a yokozuna named Maedayama claimed he had colitis and went kyujo from Osaka Basho. A few days later, he was seen in Tokyo at an exhibition baseball game that involved a touring team from the US--San Francisco Seals. The uproar that resulted was tremendous. Maedayama felt properly chastized and was willing to return to Osaka to do at least the dohyo-iri on Day 14 and to compete in the bout on Senshuraku. The Kyokai told him, "Don't bother. We don't want you." It was a matter of honor and trust. Maedayama took responsibility for his action and retired. Watching a ball game certainly wouldn't have worsened his illness. Maedayama was photographed shaking the hand of Lefty O'Doul, who is credited as being the "Father of Japanese Baseball." It was a grand event to further the relations of the two countries. All that meant little when compared to a yokozuna's integrity.

More about Maedayama

[Jaak 7]

I did not expect to know the proper terms to search and expect the results of search to be complete on the topic. Nor was I confident that the question has been discussed in depth, so I could look up an authoritative explanation.

[Peterao 3]

I did not expect to know the proper terms to search and expect the results of search to be complete on the topic. Nor was I confident that the question has been discussed in depth, so I could look up an authoritative explanation.

You could have saved 39 words by just saying "No, I didn't try."

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

Sorry, I really didn't want to push you around. I was simply expecting that not many people would give you easy answers, when you present a full catalogue of questions like you did.

"fusen AND leg"

"fusen AND both"

"fusen AND kensho"

are reasonable search terms. BTW, some three or so questions of yours ask for either speculation, omniscience or lies.

[Asashosakari 20,272]

Meta-note: Don't capitalize it as "AND" or the search terms will be interpreted as a single phrase. For a logical AND search it has to be spelled "and" without any capital letters. (Just try and see the different number of results for "Kaio and Taikai" versus "Kaio AND Taikai".)

[Jaak 7]

There are supposed to be warnings now for unmotivated sumo.

Have any been issued?

[Kintamayama 47,297]

There are supposed to be warnings now for unmotivated sumo.

Have any been issued?

If you want this answered, you should put in a thread that has something to do with it-not "kyujo and fusensho rules" which have nothing to do with unmotivated sumo. I almost missed it because I wouldn't read this thread usually, I just stumbled on it by mistake and I would gladly answer it if I knew about it.

In any case, no warnings have been issued yet, at least none that have been made public.

[Jaak 7]

There are supposed to be warnings now for unmotivated sumo.

Have any been issued?

If you want this answered, you should put in a thread that has something to do with it-not "kyujo and fusensho rules" which have nothing to do with unmotivated sumo. I almost missed it because I wouldn't read this thread usually, I just stumbled on it by mistake and I would gladly answer it if I knew about it.

In any case, no warnings have been issued yet, at least none that have been made public.

It does have a lot to do with unmotivated sumo, because the outcome of 2 unmotivated sumo warnings is supposed to be kyujo advice.

Kotooshu now decided to go kyujo, with 3-8-4 score. He might have continued - e.g. Chiyotaikai in March 2009 stayed to the end with 2-13 score. Kotooshu

[Kintamayama 47,297]

Kotooshu does not seem to have collected even a single warning for unmotivated sumo. Where is he injured? And when?

It's also possible that he is just simply having a bad basho due to general weakness-translation-he sucks this basho-nothing sinister, it happens to the best.

[Jaak 7]

Kotooshu does not seem to have collected even a single warning for unmotivated sumo. Where is he injured? And when?

It's also possible that he is just simply having a bad basho due to general weakness-translation-he sucks this basho-nothing sinister, it happens to the best.

Yes, but the best sometimes struggle to the end (and give their opponents predictable wins) rather than go kyujo. Like Chiyotaikai did with his 2:13 basho - though he went on with 2:9:4 on his last two ozeki bashos.

[Sashohitowa 6]

...

Kotooshu

[Kintamayama 47,297]

Yes, but the best sometimes struggle to the end (and give their opponents predictable wins) rather than go kyujo. Like Chiyotaikai did with his 2:13 basho - though he went on with 2:9:4 on his last two ozeki bashos.

"Sometimes" is the wrong word.It almost never happens-you can check the past Ozeki records (I'm too lazy) and I'll bet it's around once in 30 that a struggling Ozeki prefers to go all the way and look like a feeble weakling.

[Pippooshu 1]

I don't like the psicological weakness of Kotooshu. It happens often he give up the running during the basho when he can't win it.

In this Giryou Shinsa his sumo was illogic and not suitable. He was out of condition also, I think so...

[Asashosakari 20,272]

Yes, but the best sometimes struggle to the end (and give their opponents predictable wins) rather than go kyujo. Like Chiyotaikai did with his 2:13 basho - though he went on with 2:9:4 on his last two ozeki bashos.

"Sometimes" is the wrong word.It almost never happens-you can check the past Ozeki records (I'm too lazy) and I'll bet it's around once in 30 that a struggling Ozeki prefers to go all the way and look like a feeble weakling.

Exactly. When Chiyotaikai did it the papers were full of exasperated comments about how he wasn't doing the "expected" thing and withdraw. Let's also note that he made comments about toughing it six months later, too, but in the end decided to withdraw after going MK. (In the next basho when he was kadoban he said he was gonna exit upon makekoshi right from the start, IIRC.)

[Jaak 7]

Checking the last 38 occasions when an ozeki fought at least some bouts, but finished with fewer than 6 wins, I see that fighting to the end were Chiyotaikai 2008.05 (5:10), Tochiazuma 2007.01 (5:10), Dejima 2001.05 (5:10). And also Chiyotaikai 2009.03. 4 out of 38 is a bit more than 1 out of 30, but indeed rare.

Kotomitsuki, 2009.01 ended 2:10:3.