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Kintamayama

Rikishi/Oyakata/YDC reactions to yaocho affair

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Can't Kintamayama and Peterao fight it out on the dohyo?

Would be nice! (In a state of confusion...)

I've been retired for over 15 years now!

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"And I can't say anything but 'no' in response to whether or not I did yaocho, can I?"

"This kind of talk brings with it misunderstanding.. Not everyone may see it that way, but it can be misunderstood. I really have to ask him what he meant," said a bewildered Hanaregoma Oyakata. The reporter is saying Hakuhou may have misunderstood the question and even though his Japanese is excellent, it would not be the first time he did not fully comprehend a question (...). "Man, he was really pale- he looked worried," remarked an Oyakata who saw him on TV.

I figured he was pointing out what a stupid question it was for the press to ask. Kind of like, "Why are you asking? Do you really expect me to say yes?" The press constantly ask questions like that as if they're going to get a confession or something, in public, on TV. If he had done it, would he really announce it to them first? They know he won't, but they still ask. I interpreted it as impatience with them, not a denial-hinting-at-guilt. Why would he incriminate himself in front of everyone? It doesn't make sense.

That's one possible interpretation. But why leave anything open to a different interpretation? And, since the Kyokai has admitted fault, and in this instance, Hakuho was representing the Kyokai, Hakuho has a responsibility to be contrite. He doesn't have the "right" to be annoyed by the questions; it's his responsibility to face the music, and answer the questions simply and with remorse.

When asked basically the same question, Hanaregoma said flat out and unambiguously "I did not." That's what Hakuho should have said, even if he "couldn't say anything else".

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That's one possible interpretation. But why leave anything open to a different interpretation? And, since the Kyokai has admitted fault, and in this instance, Hakuho was representing the Kyokai, Hakuho has a responsibility to be contrite. He doesn't have the "right" to be annoyed by the questions; it's his responsibility to face the music, and answer the questions simply and with remorse.

When asked basically the same question, Hanaregoma said flat out and unambiguously "I did not." That's what Hakuho should have said, even if he "couldn't say anything else".

But his judgment in saying it wasn't the issue; your point was that it was an implicit admission of wrong-doing (or at least, that was my impression of your point), and I think that's very unlikely and said so. I agree that it wasn't the time for a smart remark, and will probably end up being more hassle to him than it was worth. He should have done just as you said.

Edited by alpineviolet

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But his judgment in saying it wasn't the issue; your point was that it was an implicit admission of wrong-doing (or at least, that was my impression of your point), and I think that's very unlikely and said so.

No, I just implied that he implied that. (In a state of confusion...)

As forthright as people in the Kyokai have been recently, I don't believe that they have earned the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by Peterao

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Not a rikishi, but an ex-rikishi, so hopefully Kintamayama will forgive me...

Wakanoho: "Only 14 names have come out, but the oyakata and rikishi are all doing yaocho. This isn't all of them by far. I was told by my senpai 'This is a rule of Japan. If you wanna have a long career, you'll play along like everyone else.'"

Though he didn't name any names, he did say that he had been a part of yaocho many times, and said that he received around 1,000,000 yen for losing (not sure if that's total or each time...)

It should be noted that he has made claims of yaocho before, only to later say that they were a lie. Now he says that the lie was a lie.

Video of Wakanoho's comments

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Here's an interesting reaction...

Sumo chairman dined at Michelin restaurant day scandal broke

On the night of February 3, the day before the sumo bout-rigging scandal was revealed, the chairman of the Japan Sumo Association was photographed dining at a Michelin 1-star Japanese restaurant in Tokyo, reports Shukan Shincho (Feb. 17).

JSA Chairman Hanaregoma was seen with an unidentified man at the white wood counter inside the restaurant, which goes unnamed but is reported to have received its award from the tire company in last year

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Here's an interesting reaction...

Sumo chairman dined at Michelin restaurant day scandal broke

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2011/02/10/su...-scandal-broke/

hmmm what is the point this reporter is making? That the restaurant is expensive and that he must be able to afford it because he took bribes? 10,000 course start... this is Tokyo, no big deal!!

Secret unidentified man.... again no big deal, doesn't the riji have his own life? He isn't always going to be out with rikishi/oyakata every minute of his life.

Sometimes I am also seen out with unidentified people when I'm not having dinner with rikishi.. LOL

Then again is there really a hidden message and I just don't get it? (In a state of confusion...)

Edited by Otokonoyama
full article quote removed for brevity - not necessary when responding to the full text

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Here's an interesting reaction...

Sumo chairman dined at Michelin restaurant day scandal broke

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2011/02/10/su...-scandal-broke/

hmmm what is the point this reporter is making? That the restaurant is expensive and that he must be able to afford it because he took bribes? 10,000 course start... this is Tokyo, no big deal!!

Secret unidentified man.... again no big deal, doesn't the riji have his own life? He isn't always going to be out with rikishi/oyakata every minute of his life.

Sometimes I am also seen out with unidentified people when I'm not having dinner with rikishi.. LOL

Then again is there really a hidden message and I just don't get it? (In a state of confusion...)

I can only infer one of two things from this story: either he was acting in a suprisingly everything-is-normal manner for a guy who knew that this huge scandal was going to blow the next day, or he was completely blindsided by the news with little or no advance warning.

I have no idea which though...

Edited by Otokonoyama
full article quote removed for brevity - not necessary when responding to the full text

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It seems to me the article may have also been suggesting that he was cavorting with unsavory characters - another oyakata or reputable sponsor would hardly be unknown to any reporter worth his salt...

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Not a rikishi, but an ex-rikishi, so hopefully Kintamayama will forgive me...

Wakanoho: "Only 14 names have come out, but the oyakata and rikishi are all doing yaocho. This isn't all of them by far. I was told by my senpai 'This is a rule of Japan. If you wanna have a long career, you'll play along like everyone else.'"

Though he didn't name any names, he did say that he had been a part of yaocho many times, and said that he received around 1,000,000 yen for losing (not sure if that's total or each time...)

It should be noted that he has made claims of yaocho before, only to later say that they were a lie. Now he says that the lie was a lie.

Video of Wakanoho's comments

Seems like that link doesn't work (In a state of confusion...)

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It seems to me the article may have also been suggesting that he was cavorting with unsavory characters - another oyakata or reputable sponsor would hardly be unknown to any reporter worth his salt...

Could have been his cousin. Who knows. We have enough innuendos (And I prefer Queen's)

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"And I can't say anything but 'no' in response to whether or not I did yaocho, can I?"

Hakuhou explained that now that three rikishi have admitted to it, he said what he said, and the Kyokai has accepted his explanation and that's that.

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Next special rijikai meeting-6:00 PM, Monday, February 14th. Punishments may be decided upon then. "It all depends on the results of the investigations, but it is not unlikely we will decide on the punishments then, " said Hanaregoma Rijicho.

Edited by Kintamayama

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It should be noted that he has made claims of yaocho before, only to later say that they were a lie. Now he says that the lie was a lie.

Video of Wakanoho's comments

Seems like that link doesn't work (In a state of confusion...)

This is the same video:

Edited by Otokonoyama

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Seems like that link doesn't work :-(

This is the same video:

Thanks so much (In a state of confusion...)

Edited by Otokonoyama
repaired quote tag

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He claims to have made 8,000,000 yen from yaocho in a single basho! (In a state of confusion...)

He doesn't mention any names of any new people who've done yaocho, but he does single out Kisenosato as one of the small number of "serious" rikishi that don't engage in yaocho (and he's the only one to defeat Hakuho in five basho...hrmm...)

He also claims that the reason that he took back his yaocho claims initially was because the Kyokai told him that, if he did so, he would receive retirement pay. The Kyokai denies this baseless allegation.

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He doesn't mention any names of any new people who've done yaocho, but he does single out Kisenosato as one of the small number of "serious" rikishi that don't engage in yaocho (and he's the only one to defeat Hakuho in five basho...hrmm...)

Kisenosato's name has come up before in fleeting yaocho topics like the weird one about Asashoryu and yaocho back in the days and always as an example of a rikishi who does not engage in such. I doubt Wakanoho had some kind of extra warm relations with Kisenosato and wouldn't have any motivation to single him out in a positive light without a reason. In any case, whatever the scope of yaocho is in professional sumo, whatever the cultural way of Japan may be (yaocho is embedded in the culture etc), these "lone" warriors who go their own way not succumbing to a "dirty" system (even if it was not considered dirty in the actual society itself) are the real pearls in my opinion. Kisenosato is my number one favourite rikishi so the naturally the more than 50-50 chance that he actually represents the ideal way (in my world) is comforting.

In general, regardless of who may be clean or not, the type of rikishi who would stick to going for a win in every single bout is the ideal rikishi in my world. If the system is riddled with yaocho and yaocho is considered quite normal and yet a rikishi X never changes his way always going for a win, he gets my full respect. Damn statue should be erected for individuals like that. In my sumo world senpais are respected by trying to rip their hearts out sumowise whenever meeting them on the dohyo, no matter what situation, all bouts are approached with only a single thought "This is the only moment that matters, this very bout, this very sumo bout, there is no yesterday, tomorrow or 2018, only a chance to go all out regardless of anything". If only the world of sumo, Japan and individual minds were as simple as that.

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Here's an interesting reaction...

Sumo chairman dined at Michelin restaurant day scandal broke

http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2011/02/10/su...-scandal-broke/

hmmm what is the point this reporter is making? That the restaurant is expensive and that he must be able to afford it because he took bribes? 10,000 course start... this is Tokyo, no big deal!!

Secret unidentified man.... again no big deal, doesn't the riji have his own life? He isn't always going to be out with rikishi/oyakata every minute of his life.

Sometimes I am also seen out with unidentified people when I'm not having dinner with rikishi.. LOL

Then again is there really a hidden message and I just don't get it? (In a state of confusion...)

If there is one last Ozumo man to serve as the Kyokai chairman at the moment and get this to a reasonable resolution, it is Hanaregoma. Unlike many of his counterparts in the board, he really had no ambition to be the chairman and all through his career as an active rikishi or oyakata, he had never been the one to be a star. Time and time during his tenure as the Jungyo director, he preached to the rikishi to show their best in front of the fans coming in to see them and he acted himself accordingly.

Perhaps reporters may frequent only ramen shops but many business people do go to lunches and dinners at very expensive restaurants (and they don't even have whatever stars). Some restaurants are so exclusive, they only take their regular customers and guests. Hey, there are even buffet restaurants that charge you close to 10,000 yen.

Regardless if Hanaregoma can't do it and leaves his post, the next chairman will be an outsider,

Edited by Jonosuke

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An interesting tangent from former Komusubi Kyokushuzan, now a lawmaker in Mongolia: "Yaocho exists in Mongolian sumo. Everyone in Mongolia understands this. Sometimes when a fighter wins the people get angry and say 'why didn't he let the other guy win?' We are a culture that understands yaocho."

Regardless, he denied any involvement in yaocho in Japan, and says "We shouldn't doubt the Mongolian rikishi."

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(Wakanoho) doesn't mention any names of any new people who've done yaocho

And the winner of the bidding war was Shukan Gendai! Wakanoho named 21 rikishi against whom he had a mutual arrangement in place before wrestling them. The article is said to be published in today's rag.

I haven't seen the magazine yet, but another source claims that one of the names to be mentioned is Kotooshu.

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(Wakanoho) doesn't mention any names of any new people who've done yaocho

And the winner of the bidding war was Shukan Gendai! Wakanoho named 21 rikishi against whom he had a mutual arrangement in place before wrestling them. The article is said to be published in today's rag.

I haven't seen the magazine yet, but another source claims that one of the names to be mentioned is Kotooshu.

Wasn't Kotooshu mentioned in Wakanoho's initial claims (with the same magazine I think) back in 2008?

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(Wakanoho) doesn't mention any names of any new people who've done yaocho

And the winner of the bidding war was Shukan Gendai! Wakanoho named 21 rikishi against whom he had a mutual arrangement in place before wrestling them. The article is said to be published in today's rag.

I haven't seen the magazine yet, but another source claims that one of the names to be mentioned is Kotooshu.

Wasn't Kotooshu mentioned in Wakanoho's initial claims (with the same magazine I think) back in 2008?

So far I've read the four names from before (Kaio, Kotooshu, Chiyotaikai, and Kasuganishiki) and new ones Kotomitsuki and Kotoshogiku. I might have to pony up for the magazine to find out the other 15...

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The full list of rikishi that Wakanoho has accused and re-accused (via 2ch, saving me a few hundred yen):

Hokutoriki

Toyozakura

Chiyohakuho

Chiyotaikai

Tamarikido

Shirononami

Shunketsu

Jumonji

Shimotori

Kotomitsuki

Kotoshogiku

Kotooshu

Kiyoseumi

Kyokunankai

Kasuganishiki

Kasugao

Kaiho

Kaio

Otsukasa

Ushiomaru

Asofuji

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The full list of rikishi that Wakanoho has accused and re-accused (via 2ch, saving me a few hundred yen):

Hokutoriki

Toyozakura

Chiyohakuho

Chiyotaikai

Tamarikido

Shirononami

Shunketsu

Jumonji

Shimotori

Kotomitsuki

Kotoshogiku

Kotooshu

Kiyoseumi

Kyokunankai

Kasuganishiki

Kasugao

Kaiho

Kaio

Otsukasa

Ushiomaru

Asofuji

And from this we can determine that:

1. Since yaocho now does exist, and is a proven fact, and

2. There now seems to be some credibility to Noho's statements after all,

what remains is:

3 Still no way to Pin the Tail on the Yaocho-ists. Noho, finding gold suddenly in his hands, may have decided to enrich the motherload by possibly adding a few juicy names? Just as payback and for nothing else other than revenge, albeit from a distance?

Even if half of the guys he fingers are legitimate subscribers to Falls Unlimited, there's still no concrete evidence that the fingered were actually involved. Yet. And there may never be. However, there may be a lot of maybe's...

Maybe Asa did buy a bunch of yushos...

Maybe Osh did buy his...

Maybe HF did buy his...

Maybe Hak bought a few of his own..

Maybe Kaio didn't find the Fountain of Youth after all....

And maybe if Kise was a participant, he might actually be an Ozeki by now....

Forget the interviews. Test each and every man in sumo with a polygraph! Then we see who's lying and who's lying.

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