Yaocho by mobile scandal-

[Kotobaru 0]

Hanaregoma press conference today after the decision to cancel Haru basho:

Q: How will you be preventing this from happening again?

The right one should be with the manners of NSK:

A: We'll prohibit the use of all sort of telephones for sekitori, so this could be the similar measure as with the driving of a car.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Folding the Kyokai down.

However gloomy, this idea sounds realistic.

Disagree-will never happen. Everything will be done so as not to lose face. Sumo will survive-it's gone through worse.

Could you be more specific, what was that worse?

Off the top of my head, half of the rikishi leaving Sumo and establishing another Kyokai. Armed rikishi holed up in a Chinese restaurant and having a stand off with the police. Just off the top of my head.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 44,354]

I too would like to hear of this worse thing that sumo has gone through. The rijicho couldn't think of one when he was making his speech...

He wasn't asked to think of anything worse. For an answer look at the post before this one. Oh, and not letting Osaka governor Ms. Ota on the dohyo present the Governor's Cup- that was really the worst. It caused thousands of fans to stop frequenting sumo forums and mail lists-it was awful- a real outburst, a veritable plague of disgruntled fans.

Or was it one grumpy fan who always surfaces when sumo is in the dumps and disappears when everything is fine? I can't remember..

[shumitto 418]

Folding the Kyokai down.

However gloomy, this idea sounds realistic.

Disagree-will never happen. Everything will be done so as not to lose face. Sumo will survive-it's gone through worse.

I believe sumo will survive. But maybe the kyokai will have to be built again from ground up.

[Peterao 3]

I too would like to hear of this worse thing that sumo has gone through. The rijicho couldn't think of one when he was making his speech...

He wasn't asked to think of anything worse.

He said "sumou no rekishi ni saidai no oten wo nokosu kekka to natta". Is your interpretation of that different than mine?

This is worse than rikishi breaking away. Then you had two organizations; after this, we may have zero.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

I too would like to hear of this worse thing that sumo has gone through. The rijicho couldn't think of one when he was making his speech...

He wasn't asked to think of anything worse.

He said "sumou no rekishi ni saidai no oten wo nokosu kekka to natta". Is your interpretation of that different than mine?

This is worse than rikishi breaking away. Then you had two organizations; after this, we may have zero.

You actually do know the "Japanese way" well, so I'm surprised you don't recognize the subtext, which is "I'm so ashamed this has happened on my watch that I have to say it's the worst thing ever as a means of taking responsibility for this. In the old days, it would have been seppuku."

Come on, Peterao.. Words aren't just words at times like these in Japan. It's all about the double entendre.

[Peterao 3]

I too would like to hear of this worse thing that sumo has gone through. The rijicho couldn't think of one when he was making his speech...

He wasn't asked to think of anything worse.

He said "sumou no rekishi ni saidai no oten wo nokosu kekka to natta". Is your interpretation of that different than mine?

This is worse than rikishi breaking away. Then you had two organizations; after this, we may have zero.

You actually do know the "Japanese way" well, so I'm surprised you don't recognize the subtext, which is "I'm so ashamed this has happened on my watch that I have to say it's the worst thing ever as a means of taking responsibility for this. In the old days, it would have been seppuku."

Come on, Peterao.. Words aren't just words at times like these in Japan. It's all about the double entendre.

So you don't think that he really believes that the current crisis is that serious? Because that's not the vibe I got when I actually watched him give that speech. I don't believe that even a Japanese can fake that look...

[Kintamayama 44,354]

So you don't think that he really believes that the current crisis is that serious? Because that's not the vibe I got when I actually watched him give that speech. I don't believe that even a Japanese can fake that look...

Oh, he definitely believes it's truly terrible and earth-shattering-he is just having problems objectively ranking the order of bad times in sumo because of his current involvement. To him, it's the worst, but objectively, I disagree. This was the point of our latest discussion - I said there were worse times, and you said even Hanaregoma said that THIS was the worst.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Hananotaka 8]

I'm with Kinta on this, and perhaps even the riji-cho would agree. He said this was the biggest stain on sumo history. That can be completely true, but a stain is not a crisis. As far as crises go, half the Kyokai leaving to set up a rival kyokai, or rikishi standing off with the police in a Chinese restaurant were worse. The Kyokai may lose their special status and income from taxes. They'll incorporate. NHK may quit showing basho -- some other network will pick it up, even if in digest form; heck in this day and age, losing the public network broadcast is not as bad as it once would have been. A chunk of the current banzuke may have to be purged. Sumo will be healthier for it. This may be a turning point in sumo history, but it's not the worst crisis they've had.

[Peterao 3]

This may be a turning point in sumo history, but it's not the worst crisis they've had.

With all due respect, you can't possibly know that until this latest crisis has ended. All this may be only the tip of the iceberg.

[Hananotaka 8]

This may be a turning point in sumo history, but it's not the worst crisis they've had.

With all due respect, you can't possibly know that until this latest crisis has ended. All this may be only the tip of the iceberg.

Absolutely. By the same token, neither can one say this is the worst ever until it is over. As it stands right now, however, it's not quite as bad as some other times.

[Peterao 3]

The committee has announced that they consider Kiyoseumi guilty of yaocho, even though he hasn't confessed to it. "Based on the mail text and other information, it is clear that he was involved in the selling of bouts."

[Peterao 3]

This may be a turning point in sumo history, but it's not the worst crisis they've had.

With all due respect, you can't possibly know that until this latest crisis has ended. All this may be only the tip of the iceberg.

Absolutely. By the same token, neither can one say this is the worst ever until it is over. As it stands right now, however, it's not quite as bad as some other times.

No other incident of misbehavior has ever resulted in the cancellation of a honbasho, let alone the indefinite cancellation of all basho. You really don't believe that this deserves consideration as the worst thing to ever happen to Ozumo?

[Peterao 3]

Much has been made of the "heaven and hell" difference between Juryo and Makushita. Another one is the ability to retire with toshiyori status. Besides having Japanese citizenship, if a rikishi never makes it to Sanyaku, he must amass a total of 20 basho in Makuuchi, or 30 basho in Juryo/Makuuchi, in order to be eligible.

Those who can do land a toshiyori are guaranteed a fairly cushy job for another 25-30 years. Those who can't have to figure out how to make it in the outside world. So there's yet another incentive to hang on in Juryo by any means necessary.

I don't know how you'd go about fixing that. They can't relax the requirements and create more kabu without increasing income to handle all of the new workers, and income is likely to decrease sharply. And that would only create a new benchmark that would still give future rikishi incentive to figure out creative ways to reach it.

Like I said last year, the system is broken. It needs to be blown up and completely rebuilt from scratch.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Though he has not been directly implicated or named in the scandal, the yokozuna (sumo

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Article of importance

Regular

[Kintamayama 44,354]

"I want the guys that did yaocho to retire immediately. I'd like to see them cut their stomachs (harakiri) and die. It's hard to believe that others are risking their lives on the dohyo while these guys.. The rikishi are doing keiko and crying at the same time. When I think of them, I really feel sorry for them and it brings tears to my eyes. But the only way to become strong is to torture yourself with hard keiko. We have to clean the sumo world up quickly and thoroughly, so that new recruits will still want to join us," said Takadagawa Oyakata, ex-Akinoshima. The other Oyakata coming out of the meeting chose mostly not to respond, except a few who mumbled the usual "We will train hard etc.. etc.."

[ilovesumo 12]

Though he has not been directly implicated or named in the scandal, the yokozuna (sumo

[Peterao 3]

Though he has not been directly implicated or named in the scandal, the yokozuna (sumo?s highest rank) on Monday suffered the ignominy of having a yet-to-air television commercial axed. Sumitomo Forestry, which sells new homes, said that it had canceled a television commercial starring Hakuho, in which the strength and sturdiness of the famed sumo wrestler is compared with the strength of the company?s new homes.

A Sumitomo Forestry spokesman said the commercial was shot at the end of last year and was slated to run on Saturday, but the company decided to kill it given the current match-fixing scandal. Hakuho ? who has the second-longest winning streak in the history of sumo ? has not yet been paid by Sumitomo for the commercial, according to the spokesman, who declined to comment on how much he is set to receive and whether he will receive any fee at all. The company said it would wait until an announcement is made regarding the match-fixing allegations to make a decision on whether it may air the commercial in the future...

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/02...ommercial-axed/

Now that would be an interesting court case about the payment.......

Hakuho himself did nothing wrong (well, who knows what the Miyagino-Oyakata-taping will be worth)

but he is the symbol of Sumo - Sumo as a whole lost a lot of reputation...- but not only now, fopr years already and the company still took him for a spot?

I'd say Hak would win.

Would Hakuho have a direct contract with this company? I thought all of this outside activity goes through the Kyokai?

If so, don't think that this is Hakuho's fight.

And you have no proof that he's done nothing wrong...

[kotoeikoku 0]

And you have no proof that he's done nothing wrong...

semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

[Fay 1,677]

Got an email today from Takanohana beya telling me, that all of their rikishi are fair players (ok nobody is in Juryo or Makuuchi ...) It's because Takanohana is teaching them: "Sumo is a very beautiful thing, not only from the outside but also from the inside".

ok, I will decide to believe him ... (In jonokuchi...)

[Peterao 3]

And you have no proof that he's done nothing wrong...

semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit

This isn't a court of law. This is a court of public opinion.

For all time, despite the huge quanity of statistical evidence, Ozumo's argument was that the very concept of yaocho is absurd. Now we have proof that it is real, it's damned real. The Kyokai has admitted this, and pledged that no basho will be held "until all the poison is removed"

Will anyone believe they've done that if only the rikishi we know about now are accounted for? No.

Everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Find me some Latin for that...

[Peterao 3]

Article of importance

This part deserves huge bold text:

if the JSA remains an organization that requires pressure from outside to reach the truth, it cannot expect any sympathy from the Japanese public.

[Yubinhaad 11,546]

I think I've figured out what triggered this whole investigation in the middle of the Hatsu basho - a rikishi whose shikona hasn't been mentioned at all so far:

Jk13w  Moriurara (1-0)		yorikiri		 Jk13e  Kasachikara (0-1)
Jk13w  Moriurara (2-0)		yoritaoshi	   Jk12w  Hara (1-1)
Jk13w  Moriurara (3-0)		hikiotoshi	   Jk16w  Wakagenji (2-1)
Jk13w  Moriurara (4-0)		hatakikomi	   Jk19e  Onuki (3-1)

Clearly the authorities need to start checking some Jonokuchi mobiles as soon as possible.

[kotoeikoku 0]

For all time, despite the huge quanity of statistical evidence, Ozumo's argument was that the very concept of yaocho is absurd. Now we have proof that it is real, it's damned real. The Kyokai has admitted this, and pledged that no basho will be held "until all the poison is removed"

Will anyone believe they've done that if only the rikishi we know about now are accounted for? No.

Everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Find me some Latin for that...

No. If there is no evidence that a particular rikishi has engaged in yaocho, then they are by default innocent. Unless by your phrase 'everyone is guilty', you simply mean that the whole organization needs reform.

I agree with you that the available evidence suggests yaocho is more than just pervasive - it is structural, built in and incentivized, and getting rid of it means a root-and-branch redesign of Ozumo. It also seems probable that many (one wonders if most) rikishi have engaged in it at some time.

But you cannot move from the general to the particular without evidence.

Anyway, hijack over.