Yaocho by mobile scandal-

[ilovesumo 12]

Some oyakata seem to check all the mobile phones of their rikishi. Even the phones from Jonidan and Sandanme rikishi are inspected. That's what rikishi from different stable mailed me.

Yep. Got the same info - adding it's also the police.

[Kintamayama 44,251]

A note to all those who say they don't want sumo's tradition to go away: it's already gone.

Drama queen. This is the sweeping conclusion you have reached after reading that lower ranked rikishi now have their own TVs. Oh, right - and have their very own cellphones, which they weren't allowed to have back in the seventies and eighties.. Quirky, even by your standards.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Peterao 3]

A note to all those who say they don't want sumo's tradition to go away: it's already gone.

Drama queen. This is the sweeping conclusion you have reached after reading that lower ranked rikishi now have their own TVs. Oh, right - and have their very own cellphones, which they weren't allowed to have back in the seventies and eighties.. Quirky, even by your standards.

No, I reached that conclusion long ago.

It's obvious that you've woken up on the wrong side of the mita this morning, so I'll just go to bed early myself tonight...

[Kintamayama 44,251]

A note to all those who say they don't want sumo's tradition to go away: it's already gone.

Drama queen. This is the sweeping conclusion you have reached after reading that lower ranked rikishi now have their own TVs. Oh, right - and have their very own cellphones, which they weren't allowed to have back in the seventies and eighties.. Quirky, even by your standards.

No, I reached that conclusion long ago.

It's obvious that you've woken up on the wrong side of the mita this morning, so I'll just go to bed early myself tonight...

You forget I woke up 8 hours ago and I'm in an extremely good mood, sir. I just sometimes find your sweeping conclusions a bit well, testing..

[Kintamayama 44,251]

One of Hakuhou's tsukebitos (a sandanme rikishi) was questioned today, following an allegation in a weekly that he and one other person "surrounding" Hakuhou were go-betweens in Makuuchi yaocho matches. The tsukebito denied everything.

The rikishi in question is Sandanme Koubou. "We just wanted to ask him some questions. Other than that, nothing extraordinary," said Hanaregoma rijicho.

[Peterao 3]

It was announced today that all intai paperwork would remain in a pending state until such time where honbasho are ready to resume.

[Kotoviki 16]

Well thank goodness not all oyakata are checking all phones at all heya.. but since the oyakata are just like parents then the boys should be expecting it at any time. When I was living at home my mother didn't ask me even before she looked in my room or desk or whatever... Yeah,ok that was back in the dark ages!

Anyway, every heya is different, obviously the unidentified okamisan is only giving the example at one heya. She may be spoiling her boys but it isn't the same at every heya...

At Kitanoumi & Dewanoumi beya for example they can't have a mobile phone until they reach Sandame. But in Kokonoe, Shikehide, & Tokitsukaze the shindeshi get mobile phones after maezumo if they don't already have phones...

some heya don't even allow the boys to have their own laptop computers while others do have their own mini netbooks...

Kitanoumi/Kise, Dewanoumi... the rikishi can't go out alone without a senior rikishi (even that is limited) in their first year or even until they reach Sandame (Dewanoumi) but at Kokonoe shin deshi can go out alone to dinner or with other junior rikishi, etc..

The same things going on at different heya.. so not all Okami or oyakata are spoiling their boys...

etc...etc...etc..

[Kintamayama 44,251]

The committee asked the 14 main suspects to hand over their mobile phones. Results- 7 have complied, 3 handed over broken phones, one claimed to have lost his, and 3 have yet to comply. I'm confused. These 14 include the three that admitted to yaocho, right? They were found out because they had their phones confiscated and message records resurrected already, right? So they must have had their phones returned to them and now were asked to hand them in again, or, they are counted as those that handed them in as asked.

I ask.

The police were asked if any additional damning mail was found in rikishis' phones, and the answer was no. The committee, faced with increasing difficulties, may ask the police for assistance in checking the phones, says a source.

The six Kyokai related people who answered the Kyokai questionnaire and said that they had heard about yaocho in the past were questioned, and as none of them could come up with something concrete (they mostly said they heard it on the news), they all went home to rest.

[Asashosakari 18,668]

The "Freakonomics" guy said that the frequency of fixed matches diminished for a year or so after the publication of his book, since the sumo world knew that they were being scrutinized as a result of his analysis.

Which of course was complete nonsense, since the article caused basically no stir at all in Japan, either at its scholarly release or the republication in the book several years later. If there's a reason the frequency diminished temporarily, it's perhaps that the dual Futagoyama/Musashigawa dominance ended right around that time, making an 8-7 in lower makuuchi much less valuable than it had been in the mid and late 1990s.

Edit: I should add that that's a completely unneeded bit of speculation on my part, as a single year's results was way too small a sample size anyway to conclude that something had changed, and it ought to be dismissed on those grounds alone. Of course, that claim by Levitt was exactly the type of overreaching pop-sci "but it sounds good!" stuff that made parts of the original Freakonomics study questionable, too.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 18,668]

The committee asked the 14 main suspects to hand over their mobile phones. Results- 7 have complied, 3 handed over broken phones, one claimed to have lost his, and 3 have yet to comply. I'm confused. These 14 include the three that admitted to yaocho, right? They were found out because they had their phones confiscated and message records resurrected already, right? So they must have had their phones returned to them and now were asked to hand them in again, or, they are counted as those that handed them in as asked.

The phones that were confiscated last June or whenever it was aren't necessarily the ones that Kasuganishiki et al. are using today...

[Asashosakari 18,668]

One of Hakuhou's tsukebitos (a sandanme rikishi) was questioned today, following an allegation in a weekly that he and one other person "surrounding" Hakuhou were go-betweens in Makuuchi yaocho matches. The tsukebito denied everything.

The rikishi in question is Sandanme Koubou. "We just wanted to ask him some questions. Other than that, nothing extraordinary," said Hanaregoma rijicho.

It turns out that he submitted his intai paperwork on the 10th. Apparently he had decided to retire after Osaka basho already half a year ago, but with the basho cancelled he went right ahead last week. Not processed yet, as was mentioned above.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 44,251]

The weekly "Shukan Shincho" has come out with an article today saying that there was yaocho involved in some of the bashos during Hakuhou's 6 consecutive yusho run. They are saying that Hakuhou's preferred hold is a migi yotsu and then a left uwatenage, and that his opponents let him get into the migi-yotsu on purpose, helping him win. Allegedly, there were six suspect matches, and after the weekly scrutinized them on video, all of them went that way. Additionally, the opponents' "fighting manner looked artificial." The weekly is accusing his tsukebito and his manager/driver of being the go-betweens.

Hakuhou stayed at the heya for 8 and a half hours today after asageiko, a highly rare occurrence. When he left, he was surrounded by young rikishi from the heya and did not speak to the reporters.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Kintamayama

[ilovesumo 12]

Hoped Hakuho could stay save..........He IS the strongest guy, so here I won't question the whole thing.

[Kotoviki 16]

The weekly "Shukan Shincho" has come out with an article today saying that there was yaocho involved in some of the bashos during Hakuhou's 6 consecutive yusho run. They are saying that Hakuhou's preferred hold is a migi yotsu and then a left uwatenage, and that his opponents let him get into the migi-yotsu on purpose, helping him win. Allegedly, there were six suspect matches, and after the weekly scrutinized them on video, all of them went that way. Additionally, the opponents' "fighting manner looked artificial." The weekly is accusing his tsukebito and his manager/driver of being the go-betweens.

Hakuhou stayed at the heya for 8 and a half hours today after asageiko, a highly rare occurrence. When he left, he was surrounded by young rikishi from the heya and did not speak to the reporters.

ouch....

(Shaking head...)

[shumitto 418]

Hoped Hakuho could stay save..........He IS the strongest guy, so here I won't question the whole thing.

Strongest but maybe he didn't want to run the risks....

[Blue_Wolf 24]

If they now bust Hakuho out of the sport for me it's the end of sumo.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Blue_Wolf

[Kotoviki 16]

If they now bust Hakuho out of the sport for me it's the end of sumo.

I really understand how you feel...

Talking with a Japanese older man tonight about this, his idea was a bit different....

He feels that now that there is any implication of the yokozuna being involved that the whole investigation will suddenly come to an end... The 4 who have admitted to it or who are expressly mentioned dealt with, the others warned and all rikishi told "if you do this in the future we will be watching and you will be dismissed..."

The cell phones collected until now will be found to have no conclusive evidence... (actually at this point I'd be surprised if any phones did have anything on them... ) end of investigation. This is his take on the situation..

[Chiyozakura 128]

Hoped Hakuho could stay save..........He IS the strongest guy, so here I won't question the whole thing.

Strongest but maybe he didn't want to run the risks....

Nobody wants to run any risks if they can be avoided. What I do not understand among rumours for the top ranked rikishi: How can they finance it? If these were Japanese in Mongolia I could see the possibility of being so much more wealthy but the other way round? From where should Hakuho and Asashoryu have so much money? Don't tell me they pay it from the money they earn as a rikishi because than the guys selling the bouts would be incredibly stupid to not win yusho themselves and take the whole sum. So it could only be a part of the matches. And why should you buy some bouts if you are superior anyway? This does not add up so I stay sceptical. And then my next question would be: Why is not a Japanese rikishi smart enough to buy himself up to Yokozuna instead of swapping wins around to rarely stay in Juryo?

[Asashosakari 18,668]

From where should Hakuho and Asashoryu have so much money?

The yusho and kensho money should be quite sufficient. Don't forget that Asashoryu was accused by Shukan Gendai of having bought 11 (!) wins in a single basho at something like 800,000 yen per bout...whatever one may think about the veracity of that claim, that's still only about one third of what he made that basho (~9 million yen from two months of salary and the personal basho bonus, 10 million yen for the yusho, ~8 million yen net from kensho).

[Chiyozakura 128]

From where should Hakuho and Asashoryu have so much money?

The yusho and kensho money should be quite sufficient. Don't forget that Asashoryu was accused by Shukan Gendai of having bought 11 (!) wins in a single basho at something like 800,000 yen per bout...whatever one may think about the veracity of that claim, that's still only about one third of what he made that basho (~9 million yen from two months of salary and the personal basho bonus, 10 million yen for the yusho, ~8 million yen net from kensho).

But that money is the same for everybody. All other rikishi could earn the same kensho, salary and yusho bonus. A Japanese might even be able to earn more from sponsors than Asashoryu or Hakuho could. So why did, for example, Tochiazuma not simply buy his way up to more Yusho and Yokozuna promotion if it was so easily possible? The only possible answer I see is that this only works for rikishi like Asashoryu where the opponents believe they will lose anyway, so better take a small money than nothing. But that could only happen if most of his matches before had been gachinko and he had proven his dominance, which would on the one hand mean that there would not be that many yaocho bouts and on the other makes me wonder why that superior rikishi should buy wins in the first place.

[alpineviolet 0]

Innocent people are wrongly accused every day, especially in a witch hunt situation like this one. The media is entertainment; some of them are tabloids, and some others attract an audience by being "legitimate", but when it comes down to it, it's about selling papers and getting ratings, period. Nothing in Kintamayama's description of the article can be proved or disproved. We can't know Hakuho's innocence or guilt in this unless there is hard evidence or he confesses. The fact is, we will almost always believe a confession of guilt, but who will believe a plea of innocence? But sometimes innocent people do get wrongly accused. I would hate to base my decision on Hakuho on an article in a newspaper that said some matches "looked suspect". Anybody could say that. They can't even get in trouble for that, and right now, they know the Kyokai won't try to sue them.

I'm not saying everybody should "trust Hakuho" or "believe in him" or anything. I'm just saying that at this point, it's best to suspend judgement, if you can't believe in his innocence. Sadly, whether he is innocent or guilty, there will now be a permanent stain on his reputation.

Hoped Hakuho could stay save..........He IS the strongest guy, so here I won't question the whole thing.

Strongest but maybe he didn't want to run the risks....

A person can always think of more reasons for yaocho. You could argue back and forth like that forever, because it's obviously beneficial in some ways. The issue isn't whether there are reasons, but whether Hakuho is the sort of person who could feel proud of winning that way. I personally don't think so, but it's not like I can prove that.

[Kaiomitsuki 408]

The weekly "Shukan Shincho" has come out with an article today saying that there was yaocho involved in some of the bashos during Hakuhou's 6 consecutive yusho run. They are saying that Hakuhou's preferred hold is a migi yotsu and then a left uwatenage, and that his opponents let him get into the migi-yotsu on purpose, helping him win. Allegedly, there were six suspect matches, and after the weekly scrutinized them on video, all of them went that way. Additionally, the opponents' "fighting manner looked artificial." The weekly is accusing his tsukebito and his manager/driver of being the go-betweens.

Hakuhou stayed at the heya for 8 and a half hours today after asageiko, a highly rare occurrence. When he left, he was surrounded by young rikishi from the heya and did not speak to the reporters.

I remember this message (september 23rd 2010)

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=26588

Ryuuou, Hakuhou's perennial punching bag and tsukebito compatriot was seen going in and out of the "opposite" shitakubeya before Hakuhou's bout against Aran yesterday. He was called to the offices today together with Miyagino Oyakata and Kumagatani Oyakata and the three received a stern oral warning. Ever since the yaocho stories broke a few years back (Kyokutenzan, remember??) the Kyokai frowns upon tsukebito lounging around the shitakubeya for no reason. "I didn't know it was not allowed. I am reflecting.." he said. He explained that he had made plans to go for dinner with fellow Mongolian Moukonami who was in the other shitakubeya and just wanted to finalize them.

and what Kotoviki writes the same day

He explained that he had made plans to go for dinner with fellow Mongolian Moukonami who was in the other shitakubeya and just wanted to finalize them.

I guess he never heard of using his mobile phone to do this... (Eh?)

mobile phone (Shaking head...)

I guess Hakuho never use his mobile phone too ;-)

Edited February 19, 2011 by Kaiomitsuki

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

So why did, for example, Tochiazuma not simply buy his way up to more Yusho and Yokozuna promotion if it was so easily possible? The only possible answer I see is that this only works for rikishi like Asashoryu where the opponents believe they will lose anyway, so better take a small money than nothing. But that could only happen if most of his matches before had been gachinko and he had proven his dominance, which would on the one hand mean that there would not be that many yaocho bouts and on the other makes me wonder why that superior rikishi should buy wins in the first place.

Exactly - yaocho funnily only works for those rikishi who basically are at the necessariy strength level anyway. Or at least the other rikishi must believe that, as Kasuganishiki apparently was able to extend his stay in juryo way past his decline as can be assumed after his painful results in makushita after the gambling drop.

Tochiazuma possibly could have bought his way to yokozuna if everyone is game (a huge if at this stage - insuring a rensho streak and buying a yusho probably is worlds apart, but you were mixing those rather casually in your earlier post). It would be quite probably worth the investment, given the raise in kensho and bigger salary. But obviously he didn't want to play that way, the other rikishi didn't want it or (most likely IMO) the whole idea never was there to begin with.

[Asashosakari 18,668]

... makes me wonder why that superior rikishi should buy wins in the first place.

Might as well post the same thing I posted on the German forum earlier today: Preventing accidental injuries because it's a foregone conclusion anyway that the yokozuna will be winning the yusho. Classic win-win: his opponents get 800,000 yen each, and the dominant yokozuna gets to ensure he's healthy for the next basho, too. That's not to say it actually happened, but I sure don't find it difficult to come up with possible motivating factors.

Edit: Don't forget that Shukan Gendai's articles essentially stated that Asashoryu was financing his alleged win-buying out of his massive kensho earnings, which really only started to spike early in his yokozuna career. Earlier yokozuna simply didn't have 6+ million yen of additional funds at their disposal because the overall kensho sales were much lower. And of course they also had to contend with other credible yusho contenders much of the time so the concept of "ensuring" a yusho victory isn't applicable to all eras. (And with multiple yokozuna the musubi-no-ichiban kensho also get shared, for lower individual earnings.)

That being said, if the extent of the accusations against Hakuho is that he was getting his favourite grip "too easily" in 6 out of over 60 bouts, I'm not terribly worried that the story will have any legs. That's about a full magnitude less than what's been alleged against Asashoryu, or Chiyonofuji for that matter, and smacks of a tabloid desperately trying to come up with an angle that will get them noticed but not sued.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 18,668]

Exactly - yaocho funnily only works for those rikishi who basically are at the necessariy strength level anyway. Or at least the other rikishi must believe that, as Kasuganishiki apparently was able to extend his stay in juryo way past his decline as can be assumed after his painful results in makushita after the gambling drop.

I think it's just testament to the fact that it's really difficult to quantify what's a "true juryo rikishi". For the opposite case, just look at Yotsuguruma's juryo stint...if we assume he wasn't subject to any yaocho (always need to add that qualifier now...), here was a guy who wasn't even good enough to be a steady makushita-joi rikishi, but when he fluked his way into juryo he managed to post a fairly respectable 6-9 / 6-9 / 4-11 run. I don't think the juryo yaocho was about keeping totally unworthy rikishi in the sekitori ranks, even if Kasuganishiki is testing the limits of that assumption. In my opinion it's more to ensure incumbents against accidentally dropping back to makushita with a single bad basho, because even if you're normally good enough to survive in juryo there's no guarantee that you will immediately be able to return; the volatile nature of the 7-day makushita schedule is just too strong.

In other words, my basic belief is that there are likely 10-15 high makushita rikishi at any time who would be perfectly able to survive in juryo (at least, no worse than the incumbents) if they somehow got the opportunity and there's no rigging going on. The skill differences just aren't that large between J10 and Ms10.

Time for me to reiterate my wish for a third "short" division with about half the juryo salaries, preferably also with 15-day tournaments to provide more stability...

Edited February 19, 2011 by Asashosakari