Yaocho by mobile scandal-

[kotoeikoku 0]

This isn't a court of law. This is a court of public opinion.

Oh, I should say I also agree that a lot of blood will have to be spilled to satisfy public opinion. It'll be interesting to see who is offered up as sacrificial lambs.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

This isn't a court of law. This is a court of public opinion.

For all time, despite the huge quanity of statistical evidence, Ozumo's argument was that the very concept of yaocho is absurd. Now we have proof that it is real, it's damned real. The Kyokai has admitted this, and pledged that no basho will be held "until all the poison is removed"

Will anyone believe they've done that if only the rikishi we know about now are accounted for? No.

Everyone is guilty until proven innocent. Find me some Latin for that...

It has been my impression regarding the justice system in Japan, that in practice at least, one is presumed guilty until proven innocent. No Latin required.

[Peterao 3]

But you cannot move from the general to the particular without evidence.

You are confusing the way things should be with the way things are.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Enatsukasa

More...

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201102060135.html

[kotoeikoku 0]

You are confusing the way things should be with the way things are.

Not really. It seems self-evident that only rikishi for whom tangible evidence of yaocho can be found will be thrown out of sumo.

Of course, if by 'guilty until proven innocent' one means 'guilty for all and before all' in a Dostoyevskian sense, then it sort of makes sense. I guess this is what you mean: yaocho will never disappear until it is accepted by those ruling sumo that you can no longer blame a few bad apples. The top-dogs need to realize that they, and the whole institutional structure they maintain, are also part of the problem.

What seems weird to me in all this is the role being played by the Ministry. Normally when scandals of some sort rear their head in Japan, there is a public apology (all bow together!), some top dog resigns, some nominal 'reform' is announced, and then everything goes back to normal. I'm sure the JSA would love to just put a few rikishi up as sacrificial lambs and go on as usual. So why can that not happen anymore? Too many scandals? Why is the Ministry intent on seeing change in the JSA, instead of just facilitating a nice cover-up?

Edited February 7, 2011 by kotoeikoku

[Jonosuke 28]

Why is the Ministry intent on seeing change in the JSA, instead of just facilitating a nice cover-up?

Because to put it mildly, Ministry of EduSci people no longer have any confidence at all on the Kyokai top echelons to clean themselves as they see them no more than fat geezers with Grade 8 education. After so many repeated infractions, in public forum, the Kyokai has virtually lost all respectability and credibility.

Yaocho is not illegal but to preserve their core integrity, the Kyokai must be seeing ridding of themselves of it or they simply should dissolve themselves as a for non-profit organization and turn themselves as a for profit business entity like K-1 or professional wrestling, no PM trophy or Emperor Cup.

Edited February 7, 2011 by Jonosuke

[Hidariashiyama 0]

So is the next basho not happening? Have we heard an official word yet?

[Babaryutaikai 1]

So is the next basho not happening? Have we heard an official word yet?

Yes, it is not happening (Sigh...) Apparently neither are the jungyos for the year :-)

[Peterao 3]

So is the next basho not happening? Have we heard an official word yet?

Actually, no basho will be held until the investigation and punishments are completed.

[ilovesumo 12]

So is the next basho not happening? Have we heard an official word yet?

Actually, no basho will be held until the investigation and punishments are completed.

So they need rolling heads to finish it quickly. Now guess what's going to happen...

They will try to hide that others do it as well - and nobody believes that - some (former) insiders will try to make money and talk to tabloids

and the whole thing goes on and on and on.

:-)

[Peterao 3]

It's being reported that "a portion" of the 14 named rikishi are not supplying the cell phones requested. A sample excuse for not supplying the phone used last year is "I changed to a newer model recently, and destroyed the previous phone." The exact number of rikishi not complying with the request was not named.

Riji has told the Minister of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology that "I think it will time, but on this matter we'd like to conduct a full and thorough investigation." The Minister of Education etc. etc. replied "This is a problem that threatens the very existance of the Kyokai. Please identify all of the perpetrators as quickly as possible."

[Hananotaka 8]

No other incident of misbehavior has ever resulted in the cancellation of a honbasho, let alone the indefinite cancellation of all basho. You really don't believe that this deserves consideration as the worst thing to ever happen to Ozumo?

Not at all. "Cancellation" is just semantics. The fall out of the Shunjuuen Incident was that the Osaka Basho was eliminated completely, reducing the yearly number of basho from 4 to 2 (there were two Osaka basho at the time; March and October). I'd say the total elimination of two yearly basho for 20 years is definitely worse than one cancellation. Not to mention that this wouldn't be the first cancellation if the six basho system was in effect during the war years. Only having two basho a year allowed them to postpone the basho for a number of months. Instead of the usual January and May, you had one in June and one in November in 1945. In 1946, there was only one basho the whole year! So I'd also say that the war, its end, and the occupation were much bigger crises than this one. In the big scheme of things, possibly losing a certain special status with the government is not as worrisome as the Kokugikan and almost all the heya burning down in the Tokyo firebombing. The only reason we're seeing a cancellation here is that with six basho a year, they have no room to delay it, and they can afford to cancel it.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Nice articulate

Noch

Edited February 8, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Peterao 3]

No other incident of misbehavior has ever resulted in the cancellation of a honbasho, let alone the indefinite cancellation of all basho. You really don't believe that this deserves consideration as the worst thing to ever happen to Ozumo?

Not at all. "Cancellation" is just semantics. The fall out of the Shunjuuen Incident was that the Osaka Basho was eliminated completely, reducing the yearly number of basho from 4 to 2 (there were two Osaka basho at the time; March and October). I'd say the total elimination of two yearly basho for 20 years is definitely worse than one cancellation.

It's not one cancellation. They announced that Haru Basho was off, then said that all activity would be postponed indefinitely.

All the other problems have been logistical issues as to when the next basho could be held. There's never been a question about whether there should ever be another basho at all...

[Kintamayama 44,354]

All the other problems have been logistical issues as to when the next basho could be held. There's never been a question about whether there should ever be another basho at all...

It's all "Rijispeak". He is saying what he knows the Ministry and whoever else want him to say. Again, it's all between the lines. Everyone knows May will be held, but the Kyokai must be seen to be WILLING to sacrifice endlessly "till they get to the bottom of this". Bollocks. 3-4 rikishi will be sacrificed and it will be on with the show, with cosmetic changes. You can't change human nature. This sort of stuff has existed forever and it will continue to exist forever, but the rikishi will finally come to grips with progress and comprehend that they should leave no tangible traces, and find other ways that cannot be proven.

[Hananotaka 8]

Not at all. "Cancellation" is just semantics. The fall out of the Shunjuuen Incident was that the Osaka Basho was eliminated completely, reducing the yearly number of basho from 4 to 2 (there were two Osaka basho at the time; March and October). I'd say the total elimination of two yearly basho for 20 years is definitely worse than one cancellation.

It's not one cancellation. They announced that Haru Basho was off, then said that all activity would be postponed indefinitely.

It is one cancellation. And a "possibly" May as well. At this moment, May is not canceled. We can revisit the question when and if there are further actual cancellations.

All the other problems have been logistical issues as to when the next basho could be held. There's never been a question about whether there should ever be another basho at all...

The Osaka Basho was eliminated for twenty years. And it wasn't a case of just moving the Osaka Basho from Osaka to Tokyo. They went from 4 basho to 2. Further, I'd say there was very much a question of whether there would ever be another basho at all at the end of the war and into the occupation. The Kokugikan and many heya were destroyed. Rikishi were scattered. There was a question of whether GHQ would even allow sumo, given its determination to root out symbols and influences of nationalism. The Butokukai, a national organization dedicated to the preservation and support of Japanese martial arts, and in a very similar position as the JSA, was dissolved. I feel very confident in saying the riji of the time were much more worried about the future of sumo then than the current riji are with this scandal.

And there is certainly no question here of whether there will be another basho. There will be. It won't be in March. It may not be in May (though I doubt that). But there will be another basho this year. The Kyokai has bills to pay. At heart, this is nothing more than a logistical issue itself: how soon can the investigation be brought to close and a honbasho can be held.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Hananotaka

[Kintamayama 44,354]

The new investigative committee has started questioning the 70 sekitori, asking they surrender their cellphones (or should I say---- sell-phones?? I kill me) and bank-books. The initial plan was to question them between February 7th - 21st, but they added some manpower and are vowing to finish the interviews by the end of this week.

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

So they're in the middle between the devil and the deep blue sea: either they miraculously find nothing in this investigation, or some more bad apples emerge. Which is worse?

[Jaak 7]

So they're in the middle between the devil and the deep blue sea: either they miraculously find nothing in this investigation, or some more bad apples emerge. Which is worse?

Miraculously or as a matter of errors. Any yaocho that were arranged by live speech OR properly deleted and that involved memorizing honour deals or exchange of cash rather than bank account payments is safe from investigation. As are text messages properly deleted in time.

[Peterao 3]

So they're in the middle between the devil and the deep blue sea: either they miraculously find nothing in this investigation, or some more bad apples emerge. Which is worse?

I don't think they are going to find anything. The only people giving up their cell phones are the ones who are absolutely sure that nothing will be found on them, and no punishment they could get for not talking would be any worse than if they confessed. They will probably try to sell the line that the police miraculously found the only instance of cheating in the history of Ozumo.

What will ultimately determine their fate is the number of people willing to play along. As an optimist and believer in human nature, I'd like to believe that people have finally had enough of the sumo scandals, and that Ozumo will finally be forced into the 21st century.

[Saruwatari 0]

I'm wondering why the police made this public. It's unrelated to their investigations and nothing illegal. Shouldn't they have treated it as a private matter then?

[Kintamayama 44,354]

I'm wondering why the police made this public. It's unrelated to their investigations and nothing illegal. Shouldn't they have treated it as a private matter then?

As some have speculated before me, it could be a warning to the Kyokai to stop dragging their feet in their investigation of the Sumo world - underworld relationship, and that the police have names of bigger fish to reveal unless the Kyokai starts seriously investigating these ties that supposedly do not exist and never did.

Otherwise, it really is inexplicable on many levels.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

I'm wondering why the police made this public. It's unrelated to their investigations and nothing illegal. Shouldn't they have treated it as a private matter then?

Don't they have an obligation to report at least to the ministry of education etc.? I can't see that happening without making it public.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

The Kyokai are considering "looking into" the possibility of becoming a public company (Kabushiki gaisha), much like puroresu and other martial arts groups, as it is looking increasingly difficult for them to be recognized as a public service corporation. As a public service service corporation, the tax on earnings is 22% instead of the usual 30%. If they lose their public status they will have to relinquish the KKan ownership and maybe return money they have in reserve, which is estimated at around 3,500,000,000 yen.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 44,354]

I'm wondering why the police made this public. It's unrelated to their investigations and nothing illegal. Shouldn't they have treated it as a private matter then?

Don't they have an obligation to report at least to the ministry of education etc.? I can't see that happening without making it public.

Maybe, but why now? I find it difficult to believe they just discovered these messages last week. I have a feeling they have been sitting on this for a long time for some reason and the only one I can think of from the turbulent Middle East is the one I wrote about in my former post (#247)..

Edited February 8, 2011 by Kintamayama