New rules in the Kogugikan

[Meikenonami 0]

You are even not allowed to stand in the hallway anymore.

[Meikenonami 0]

Where is my picture gone? Sorry, no matter how small I made the picture I was not able to upload it.

But the first floor is now "blocked". You have to show your ticket to get to the first floor. The sign says:

"Please show your ticket. Only 1st floor seat tickets holders are available to enter"

The check the ticket every time you want to enter. To bad when just wanted to check the party and forgott your ticket downstairs.

[Meikenonami 0]

Where is my picture gone?

And I try it again....

[Harry 67]

Trying to prevent yakuza from sneaking in or they just don't like our masu and tamari bingo anymore???

[Jonosuke 28]

Does this mean we can no longer just buy a same day ticket to watch earlier bouts around Sunakaburi?

If so, this sucks as there is no chair seat (single seat) on the first floor. I saw an early bout on NHK News at Noon today and I noticed there was absolutely no one around the dohyo so I figure either everyone stopped showing up early or something.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Jonosuke

[Manekineko 200]

Oh, that's really bad news for all us who could enjoy lower-division bouts up close with the cheapest tickets. Drat.

[Asameshimae 220]

This piece of news has officially ruined my month. Heck, I was thinking of going tomorrow as I have most of the day off. Not sure if I'll bother now. What a colossal letdown.

I sincerely hope this is temporary, as it can't be good for sumo in general. All the lower division guys will not be happy to lose their poor but bright and early fans, and it just would not look good to have that area mostly empty for a large chunk of the day. The powers that be must realize they are going to lose fans over this, even it is a lot of cheap seat fans. Talk about continued shots to the foot..

Edited September 12, 2010 by Asanomeshi

[Harry 67]

Yes, jiyuuseki means "freedom seat" so you should be able to sit anywhere.

[Asameshimae 220]

Yes, jiyuuseki means "freedom seat" so you should be able to sit anywhere.

Ha! Exactly!

[Fay 1,677]

I don't know what the reason for this new action is but they already started at Natsu to check the tickets on the Tamari seats after the Juryo dohyo iri. All people without a ticket were asked to leave then ... ok they returned 15 minutes later and no one asked again I think.

[Orion 431]

I don't know what the reason for this new action is but they already started at Natsu to check the tickets on the Tamari seats after the Juryo dohyo iri. All people without a ticket were asked to leave then

That makes perfect sense. When I was being shown the ropes back in the 1970s, by a Japanese woman expert who went every day, she told me that you could sit anywhere up to when the juryo came on, after which you were supposed to go to your proper seat. If people sat on longer, they were regarded as newbies (or else as pushing it). Sumo nuts who wanted to go often took care not to push their luck, as a friendly dekata could make a big difference. Of course things have changed a lot since then, but every so often they toughen up if matters seem to have got out of hand. I've never known anything like a total prohibition on going in downstairs if you have an upstairs ticket. I hope common sense intervenes quickly. (Before the weekend, to be precise...)

Orion

[Meikenonami 0]

I talked to sekitori, former sekitori and future sekitori (Nodding yes...) and all where unhappy for us real sumo fans and the guys in the lower division you have to cheer now from the second floor. Also the rikishi Mama's and Papa's have to sit upstairs as well. Even some ochaya-san think that this is really sad. But they do not banned us real fans from the first floor, but it is made to banned the Yakuza. The even have police now at the first floor. And I mean real police, not Kyokai police.

I don't think they will change it this basho (eventhough I hope the Kyokay proof me wrong), maybe someday next year, when everybody forgot why this all happen or the cost for these extra employees have to cut down.

At nakabi I guess all parants have to make pictures from the second floor. :-O

[Babaryutaikai 1]

Well, if this rule was made to purportedly ban the yakuza from sitting downstairs, does that mean they can sit upstairs? No one ever knows what's on the minds of the kyokai, but I personally think that many people were abusing the privilege of sitting wherever they wanted until a legit seatholder arrived. I'm not talking about those fans who are sitting around, innocently cheering for the lower ranked boys (whom really appreciate the support) :-) , but some, and there are a lot, of the older Japanese people who drink too much and get totally obnoxious, or the foreigners, and there are a LOT of them, who have no clue how to act when sitting in a tamari seat (Welcome...) . As many others have on this forum, I've seen too many people sitting on the zabuton a) drinking and eating, 2) stretching their feet out towards the dohyo, bringing toddlers practically right up next to the dohyo, and 3) showing their backs to the dohyo to take a photo or just talk to their companions. Some don't even realize that you're supposed to remove your shoes when sitting on a zabuton in the tamari section or the masu (box) seats. And it seems to me that the yobidashi and shinpan are becoming more and more lax in advising the transgressors that they are not observing kokigikan/sumo etiquette. But that's all been discussed ad nauseum.

Maybe the kyokai thinks that they can bring the "dignity" back to sumo if they ban EVERYONE who does not have a 1st floor seat from the 1st floor, even throughout the lower-rank bouts, while assuming, quite likely very erroneously, that just because someone paid for an expensive seat, he or she knows sumo etiquette. (Shaking head...)

This may just result in alienating the true sumo fan who attends religiously to watch the sport :-) and support their favorites, not to see a spectacle or ridicule. Then see where the ticket sales go.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

I was planning on going over in May. If this is all true and will be strictly adhered to, I'm not coming. Yes, I like to go in real early and sit as close as I can. That is a huge part of the experience. This is dumb and dumber.

I'm staying home and counting my fingers. Again. Ten. Good. So far.

[Asameshimae 220]

Ditto Ditto. I was going to go yesterday, but decided I'd rather watch on cable where the BS channel at least shows most of Makushita.

I do buy in to a masuseki now and then, but I can't even think of the last time I actually sat down in a jyuseki seat that I bought. I only bother going to the 2nd floor these days if I bring a friend who has never been before.

We can go on about etiquette around the dohyou and all that, but that is not what caused this. They had to tighten the screws a lot to show they were serious, and in situations like this procedures and security are always tightened more than they truly need to be. How long it takes, if ever, to loosen up is the question. It is ironic, as I am sure yakuza that attended the basho had "legitimate" ringside/masuseki tickets anyway, regardless of how they obtained them.

I agree with comments above that the chances of things loosening up by the end of this basho are slim. Next year January will be the one to check for changes. I have never been to the Fukuoka basho, but in my experience the Osaka and Nagoya basho are more fluid and would be a little harder to police for squatters (or maybe I am being naive?).

[yorikiried by fate 1,989]

When Musashigawa took over the driver's seat, he instigated The Great Matta Purge. Maybe this is now Hanaregoma's useless but visible indicator that he is tackling things. If so, the symbolic value (and thus implementation) will fade away soon enough.

[ilovesumo 12]

This drives the real fans (mostly elderly people who do not really fit into the "upper class"), the youth (how could they pay for seats in the first floor?) and the first-timers who will never "get caught" away from Sumo.

Even parents have to sit in the second floor? Now tell me what sense does that make? It's not the rich people to give their sons into a heya.

Those who decide shouldn't forget where they came from.

Very bad decision, which has nothing at all to do with yakuza but money.

Those people who really care about Sumo should get some benefits, rather then a kick in the butt. What about a bonus-card-system?

Thinking about the sweet old fellows from the first row (being there each basho, 15 days), who cannot see anything from upstairs, this is not fair to them.

The ticket sales - well, for the "we don't need your support anyway cause ya broke"-seats will fall, but who cares?

The boys will hate to fight in front of totally empty seats.

[Naganoyama 5,841]

So how is it that Olympic oji-san still gets in? I thought that he only bought a general admission ticket and then got someone to "invite" him to sit next to them.

[Kotoviki 16]

Well, I haven't been to see sumo yet this time as I am still on the ferry back from Rally Japan in Hokkaido. But everyone called me immediately about the new rule. Late last night I got a call from a woman who I know who works for Reuters who I often go out with to heya parties, and she was also there on Shonichi and furious about the new rule. Her and her husband are very well known in sumo world and always spend the weekend mornings sitting in the masu with the oyakata and sewanin chatting. They usually buy A chair tickets because they spend a lot of time in and out and they are always invited to shitaku beya, having lunch with oyakata at the cafe in the Kokugikan, etc. so no need for two people to buy an entire masu box. They go to sumo after work at 1600 as well with cheap tickets they buy in the morning before work. They were just so angry as they support many lower division boys and feel it is impossible to do this at 2nd floor. No problem to sit upstairs after the lower divisions they agree but at 0820 for maezumo...???

Parents of Maezumo sitting upstairs can't take video of their kids. It is awful...

But as I suspected when Meike called me Sunday the oyakata told them it is nothing to do with people who were usually sitting there but it is the best way they feel to control access to yakuza. This way Yakuza will not be allowed to go to first floor seats!

Why can't they check everyone going into the kokugikan and not allow anyone to enter who is yakuza!????

[ilovesumo 12]

That yakuza-thing is ridiculous, as simple as that. Sure, people of the "second floor" have no "right" to sit down there, but does anybody check the rich bloke's IDs or criminal records?

They could easily start to signal the exact time to leave for the real seat. Everybody would accept that.

But a rule like this now, suspecting fans who wanna support the non-sekitori-kids to be yakuza?

What the? And we obviously non-yakuza-gaijin? Terrorists?

Edited September 14, 2010 by ilovesumo

[Sokkenaiyama 76]

Talk about perfect timing. They couldn't have picked a better moment - just when I'm going to Japan for the first time. Way to go, NSK.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

... but does anybody check the rich bloke's IDs or criminal records?

I thought that's the whole point of it, no? They're not exactly asking for their IDs (yet), except when they're holding some of those maintenance member seats, but people with high-priced tickets are supposed to be inspected - at least visually - by all those anti-yakuza unit police members on standby at the arenas. Barring people with cheaper tickets from sneaking into the expensive seats seems designed to avoid the need to inspect those audience members as well. Which of course affirms the point that it's not really about keeping yakuza members out of the Kokugikan altogether, just about keeping them off camera. Keeping that objective in mind, they do have to do something to prevent those types from simply joining the masu-seki bingo and causing the next "scandal".

Obviously the solution they're using now has significant negative side effects, but I'm honestly not sure what an effective alternative would be. Maybe they could use the 10-15 minute break in between the juryo dohyo-iri and the resumption of competition to clear the lower seats of all those who don't have a valid ticket for that area, but that may not be practical.

[Gusoyama 95]

Or they could say "We can not control who buys tickets, so if there are Yakuza in the stands, it does not connote their support or our involvement in organized crime." I'm pretty sure there are mafia going to baseball games, and you never hear about any issues with that. It is silly, at best.

[ilovesumo 12]

No negative side effects.....

perfect opportunity to kick the poor and "bad-behaver" out.

Got mail from my Japanese friend.

She told me that the new Sumo-custom is a "back to the roots"-action.

It was all too lax and people took advantage of it. The new rules are like the usual kabuki-rules.

Especially rikishi-parents should watch from "the shadow, far away". Giving more expensive tickets should become a goal for the youngsters - this can only happen if they rise up the ranks.

First-floor people got to fill personal infos like address, phone number, age etc. before they enter.

They got to sit on THEIR seat, shouldn't even leave to take pix from an other area. If leaving for the toilet, someone wanna check the ticket.

You know what? We got a bad "traditionalism will fix the errors"-case here. Great one, "new" Rijicho. (Order, order!)

How the... do they wanna become more interesting to the younger generations?

I am pissed off and I got no intention to fall back into ancient customs I never saw before - as Doreen mentioned, the "sit were you want in the morning-policy" is older then most of us fans.

Hopefully many people are pissed off as well and nobody of the "second-floorers" shows up there anymore.

Those sweet (not rich) elderly people who do see Sumo as their life-fulfilment after retirement won't be able to pay for the front row seats and watching from the cheap seats totally kills the reason to go there. I don't think they can see well enough and it's those little things like a nod from a Sumo-kid one supports, watching the Shinpan laughing their butt off over some silly thing, praying for the baby-gyouji not to make any mistake... I don't need no Sekitori but those things.

And what sense does it make not to sit in groups of fans who know each other and chat?

Edited September 14, 2010 by ilovesumo

[Gusoyama 95]

They tried this in a baseball organization once, several years ago, I think it was the Phillies. They had horrible attendance, and fans realized they could just buy cheap tickets but sit in the good seats. After a while, the ownership cracked down, and forced fans to either buy expensive tickets, or sit in their proper seats. Fans chose to sit in proper seats, or not go at all. attendance went down, and it looked horrid on TV, with lower ring of seats nearly empty. The policy went lax over a period of time, and the people were able to sit where they wanted eventually. Lets hope that the sumo higher ups will do the same thing. I doubt it though, they are some sort of ostrich/bull hybrid, stubbornly sticking their head in the ground, and refusing to remove it to see the sense in anything.