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Kotoseiya Yuichi

World Cup 2010

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As is widely known it is written in the stars that France will win their second championship. That much is given, but there remain certain uncertainties about the results of individual matches. Anyone interested in betting (and I'm not talking about actual money as I fully intend to ruin the finances of our national lottery firm anyway) among us sumo fans?

For example first the results of the group stage? Or whatever scheme is deemed the most interesting?

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As is widely known it is written in the stars that France will win their second championship. That much is given, but there remain certain uncertainties about the results of individual matches. Anyone interested in betting (and I'm not talking about actual money as I fully intend to ruin the finances of our national lottery firm anyway) among us sumo fans?

For example first the results of the group stage? Or whatever scheme is deemed the most interesting?

Why not sign up as a reserve to the Bench World Cup game, where we will 'betting' on all matches?

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As is widely known it is written in the stars that France will win their second championship. That much is given, but there remain certain uncertainties about the results of individual matches.

My stars say France won't advance past the final 16 teams.

We shall see.

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It never occurred to me such a game could be found on the Sumo Games subforum. (I am not worthy...)

An interesting concept. I was thinking more traditionally, say... X points for "guessing" the winner of a match correctly, Y points for guessing the difference between goals scored correctly, Z points for guessing the exactly correct result and after the group stage, points for guessing the top 16 teams correctly etc. Perhaps bonus points for the leading goal scorer, the team with most goals scored and/or allowed etc.

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It never occurred to me such a game could be found on the Sumo Games subforum. (I am not worthy...)

An interesting concept. I was thinking more traditionally, say... X points for "guessing" the winner of a match correctly, Y points for guessing the difference between goals scored correctly, Z points for guessing the exactly correct result and after the group stage, points for guessing the top 16 teams correctly etc. Perhaps bonus points for the leading goal scorer, the team with most goals scored and/or allowed etc.

I think I arranged a game like that for either the previous World Cup or Euro 2008 (I suspect the latter), but not with all of the variables you mention. I *think* my latest game will be more fun. Please let me know by PM (and anybody else reading this thread) if you would like to be an official back up (you could be called upon within the next 24 hours if you are).

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My stars say France won't advance past the final 16 teams.

We shall see.

Interesting..... I would say that they have a very easy group.

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My stars say France won't advance past the final 16 teams.

We shall see.

Interesting..... I would say that they have a very easy group.

Exactly..

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My choice...

First Round

A

Mexico

Uruguay

France

South Africa

B

Argentina

South Korea

Nigeria

Greece

C

England

USA

Slovenia

Algeria

D

Germany

Australia

Serbia

Ghana

E

Netherlands

Danemark

Japan

Cameroon

F

Italy

Paraguay

Slovakia

New Zealand

G

Portugal

Brazil

Ivory Coast

North Korea

H

Spain

Suisse

Chili

Honduras

Last 16

Mexico-South Korea

England-Australia

Netherlands-Paraguay

Portugal-Suisse

Uruguay-Argentina

USA-Germany

Danemark-Italy

Brazil-Spain

Last 8

Mexico-England

Netherlands-Portugal

Argentina-Germany

Italy-Brazil

Semi-finales

England-Netherlands

Germany-Italy

3rd Place England-Germany

Finale Netherlands-Italy

World Champion... Netherlands

but I hope France will win... so Carrefour will refund my TV (I am not worthy...)

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Well, the favourites as always are Italy, Germany, Brazil and maybe Argentina. Italy are too concerned about having as many as possible Juventus and Milan players, no matter how bad they and their teams play. It would hobble them were not Italy the squad who win with the worst players, but to fluke another title they need tons of luck and some friendly referees. No easy task. Germany like to have a "multikulti" team so that they can show crappy and stupid ads like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIRCLbsIeb8), which includes a phrase in Spanish at the end to make it look utter nonsense. Bad thing is every decent manager they approached to take the helm declined so they have basically a football (soccer) Manager who thinks he needs a Quarterback or maybe Center or a pitcher to build a team.... H

Edited by shumitto

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I claim that our boys (Germany) will win it before every tournament. I shared the anxiety expressed by many about our current manager's philosophy, but then I looked up our past squads and realized that if those total numpties achieved what they did, then we really are part of the group of favourites. Anyhow, Brazil is a threat. They have the right manager (Dunga) to bring some sense of disciplin into an notoriously unrelyable bunch of super-talents. Italy is Italy (ugly and randomly successful), France probably back to 2002 mode. The Argentinian will have a say. Personally, I believe that England will play an exceptional tournament. If we cannot get the cup, I hope that they - bear with me, I'm really German - or the Netherlands would score. The latter deserve it most for all the great football played over the last 20 years.

Edit asks: Why do we have to have teams from outside Europe or Middle/South-America in the WC anyway? It's just a waste of time before dealing with the real thing.

Edited by yorikiried by fate

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I'm not sensing much love for Spain in this thread. I think if they could bring a 'B' team they'd meet themselves in the final. And as for them choking? Ask the reigning European Champions if they think that's still the case. I don't think they'd agree.

However, they are in the half of the draw that (if it goes to form) will meet Brazil before the final so that could be unfortunate. That would be my ideal final. Brazil and Spain for me are the 2 to watch. England happen to be in the other half of the draw and avoid those 2 favourites which is why I think they're a good each-way bet.

France haven't a hope under that lunatic and I still can't understand them not bringing Benzema; even accounting for him being behind Higuain in R

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However, they [spain] are in the half of the draw that (if it goes to form) will meet Brazil before the final so that could be unfortunate.

The winners of groups G and H wouldn't meet before the final. Or am I completely misunderstanding what you meant by "if it goes to form"?

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No you didn't misunderstand. I just got it arseways (Holiday feeling...) I'm definitely going for a Spain/Brazil final now.

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Hmmm. Never had problems in the past to make a forecast and at least having 2/4 of the semi-finalists correct. But 2010? Quick glance at the top teams:

Germany - Bad luck with injuries before the tournament. But great team spirit and always a number in the big tournaments. With a little luck they can reach semi-final.

Italy - I never really liked the way Italians played it, but their effectiveness is outstanding.

Argentina - often underestimated, but they might have the right mix. A hot candidate for the final.

Brazil - In case Dunga can bring in enough discipline to avoid haughtyness Brazil is the team to beat.

England - Despite Capello who is doing a good job as team manager, this team is the most over-estimated and overrated team on the globe. And their goalkeepers are crap. Definitively not among the final four.

Netherlands - Mooi spelen.... they will play the best football and again die in beauty.

Spain - Convincing in Euro 2008 but can they repeat this? In World Cup they never played a major role and I have my serious doubts they will reach the semifinals.

France - No way, they should not even be in South Africa. Ireland was robbed... (Sign of disapproval...) I hope they will not even survive the first round.

Portugal - An outside chance to reach the Semi-finals....

Apart from the above mentioned teams I see no other candidates. Haven't checked the draw whether it will be possible to have these teams in the final four, but these are my picks:

Italy

Argentina

Brazil

Germany

Ganzohnesushi

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Germany - Bad luck with injuries before the tournament. But great team spirit and always a number in the big tournaments. With a little luck they can reach semi-final.

The luck factor mainly based on whether they can avoid Argentina for the quarter finals, I'd say. The German team finishing only 2nd and facing the winner of group C in the round of 16 (likely England, though mostly by default in an easy group as I too feel they're overrated) may well be the better path than going against the group C runner-up, with the potential quarter-final opponent then being the team that placed behind Argentina or whoever won the evenly-matched (= fairly mediocre) group A. Of course, Argentina being Argentina and Maradona being Maradona perhaps they'll suffer a spectacular upset in the group stage and not place first, so who knows.

At any rate, the final standings of both groups B and C will be known by the time Germany goes for their own final group game, so this could be interesting, especially in case it's already clear after two games that they and their opponent Ghana are the teams going on to the next round. Being in the last group in the upper half of the draw could be a small but crucial advantage here. (Yeah, yeah, unhatched chickens and all that...)

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Italy - I never really liked the way Italians played it, but their effectiveness is outstanding.

I'm fully expecting the Italian Diving squad from the Olympics on the sidelines giving the boys tips again. "no no, more flailing!" (Sign of disapproval...)

Oh, and if this WC ends the way the last did, I will be utterly disgusted. Shootout? To decide a World Championship? Atrocious. As an ice hockey fan, I find it ridiculous and undefendable.

I have to keep telling people around here that No, the US is not as good as their ranking shows, and that they will be lucky to get out of their group. This weekend's game against England should quiet people down about the US' chances.

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On the topic of dark horses. I choose Chile & Serbia.

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England to defeat Cote d'Ivoire in the finals (Sign of disapproval...)

Germany to defeat Brazil for 3rd place......

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Oh, and if this WC ends the way the last did, I will be utterly disgusted. Shootout? To decide a World Championship? Atrocious. As an ice hockey fan, I find it ridiculous and undefendable.

As an ice hockey fan, I also despise the shootout as a means of deciding games. I don't mind ties during the regular season but I'd prefer them to continue in overtime until someone scores. In hockey, reducing the number of players per side from 5 on 5 to 4 on 4 and then even 3 on 3 would bring the game to a conclusion in a reasonable amount of time without resorting to a sort of russian roulette.

I guess one might have to wait a very long time in soccer before a goal is scored when the sides are evenly matched but when it comes to the final games, why not have an epic struggle to the end?

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Oh, and if this WC ends the way the last did, I will be utterly disgusted. Shootout? To decide a World Championship? Atrocious. As an ice hockey fan, I find it ridiculous and undefendable.

As an ice hockey fan, I also despise the shootout as a means of deciding games. I don't mind ties during the regular season but I'd prefer them to continue in overtime until someone scores. In hockey, reducing the number of players per side from 5 on 5 to 4 on 4 and then even 3 on 3 would bring the game to a conclusion in a reasonable amount of time without resorting to a sort of russian roulette.

I guess one might have to wait a very long time in soccer before a goal is scored when the sides are evenly matched but when it comes to the final games, why not have an epic struggle to the end?

Or better yet, a rematch after 2 days. Everyone wins-the fans, the sponsors, the sport. They used to have that in English football for the Cup final, if I'm not mistaken. Tied again? Flip a coin.

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...a sort of russian roulette....

As a German I have a slightly different view. You need nerves of steel and a goalkeeper who is good at penalty killing, that's all. I can remember only one shootout where Germany lost, that was '76 in the Euro final vs. CSSR. But I remember many nice wins, e.g.:

WC 82 Semi final vs. France

WC 86 Quarter final vs. Mexico

WC 90 Semi final vs. England

EC 96 Semi final vs. England again (In a state of confusion...)

WC 06 Quarter final vs. Argentina

May be I forgot some more... The biggest shit ever implemented was the "golden goal" which thankfully after a couple of years was abolished as no pure football fan really liked it. I'm a big fan of the penalty-shootout.

Ganzohnesushi (participated three times in his career in a penalty shootout, guess how it went)

Edited by Ganzohnesushi

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The biggest shit ever implemented was the "golden goal" which thankfully after a couple of years was abolished as no pure football fan really liked it.

Right. Defensive tactics already rule during the knockout stages; turning the overtime period into a sudden death was total overkill because (rightly or wrongly) when there's the danger that one lucky shot can send you home immediately everybody feels they are better off playing ultra-defensively and hope for the best in the penalty shootout, even more so than in a standard 2x15 minute overtime.

I'll admit I'm not completely unopposed to the "reduce the number of players successively" approach that Itachi suggests, though I suspect it's another thing that works much better in theory than it would in practice for soccer. (Not least because you'd likely need at least the "silver goal" method of playing out the current overtime period, which also didn't have many fans.)

Or better yet, a rematch after 2 days. Everyone wins-the fans, the sponsors, the sport.

Good luck with that if there's a draw in a knockout match before the final.

Edit: There's an interesting variation on the Wikipedia page for the penalty shootout:

Henry Birtles' "Advantage" proposal is for the shootout to be held before extra-time, and only acting as a tiebreak if the game remains a draw after the full 120 minutes.[60] Proponents of this idea state that it would lead to a more offensive extra-time as one of the teams would know they have to score and there would never be a match in which both teams are simply waiting for penalties. Another advantage is that players who have missed would have a chance to redeem themselves in extra-time. The obvious flaw is that the team that wins the penalty shootout would be inclined to play defensively in extra time in the knowledge that a draw would put them through. However, the advantage of the Advantage proposal is that for a team that would risk that the one goal is the difference between winning and losing. As opposed to a team which defends a single goal lead whereby a conceded goal is the difference between winning a drawing.
Edited by Asashosakari

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England vs USA (In a state of confusion...)

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Or better yet, a rematch after 2 days. Everyone wins-the fans, the sponsors, the sport.

Good luck with that if there's a draw in a knockout match before the final.

I was specifically referring to the final only. I personally don't mind penalty shootouts at any point leading to the finals. but the World Cup being settled on a shootout is unholy.

Edited by Kintamayama

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England vs USA (In a state of confusion...)

As mentioned already before. England is by far the most over-estimated team on earth. 1-1 vs. USA was no surprise (at least for me). It's just a well deserved draw vs. another average team. Believe me, England is average and their goalkeepers are crap (Neener, neener...)

Ganzohnesushi

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