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Tochinoshin

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I just want to go on the record and express my great satisfaction with Tochinoshin's sumo so far this basho. It's really a pleasure watching him, and I hope he "goes with his flow" and "does his own sumo" all the way.

(Laughing...)

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He's looked good against the so far. The key is can he keep his wits about him next week against the hiramaku??

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I just want to go on the record and express my great satisfaction with Tochinoshin's sumo so far this basho. It's really a pleasure watching him, and I hope he "goes with his flow" and "does his own sumo" all the way.

(Laughing...)

Quite impressive! After falling to Baruto, he beated 3 Ozeki. Today is time for the fourth one - Kaio. Obviously, he is not a fluke. Next rikishi will test his mentality. I think he deserves a Sanyaku rank next basho.

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I think he deserves a Sanyaku rank next basho.

Well he could still finish makekoshi...

He could, if he underestimates the rest of the rikishi he will meet.

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4-1 vs the 5 ozeki. Convincing v Kaio though ozeki is old and such. Tochinoshin is for real. Don't remember though how vulnerable he is against oshi rikishi like Miyabiyama and so, or in a chaotic/unorthodox yotsu stances, but in a set migi-yotsu he can probably beat anyone maybe except Hakuho or Baruto

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I just want to go on the record and express my great satisfaction with Tochinoshin's sumo so far this basho. It's really a pleasure watching him, and I hope he "goes with his flow" and "does his own sumo" all the way.

(Sign of approval...)

Quite impressive! After falling to Baruto, he beated 3 Ozeki. Today is time for the fourth one - Kaio. Obviously, he is not a fluke. Next rikishi will test his mentality. I think he deserves a Sanyaku rank next basho.

The last Ozeki standing fell to Tochinoshin today. Great result 4 wins and 1 loss against the Ozeki. Who could predict that at the beginning of this basho?

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he bit 4 ozekis

is this result some kind of record?

No. Just see what Baruto did before he became Ozeki himself.

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he bit 4 ozekis

is this result some kind of record?

No. Just see what Baruto did before he became Ozeki himself.

but he wasnt maegashira

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he bit 4 ozekis

is this result some kind of record?

Without steak sauce, yes.

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He is only the second under-Sekiwake in history to win four consecutive bouts against Ozeki. the only one who has done it in the past is ex-Masuraou (currentOunomatsu oyakata) 23 years ago.

Edited by Kintamayama

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Getting an early jump... He faces Hakuho on Day 7... Looking forward to see if he can keep up his impressive pace...

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He needs to figure out the Toyonoshima enigma if he is going to go for the top level. He got Kotooshu'd today.

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He needs to figure out the Toyonoshima enigma if he is going to go for the top level. He got Kotooshu'd today.

Yup. This is precisely the point at which he has to find out what he needs to take it to the next level. He is magic -- but this is sumo."You go up against the top men, and they beat you, and you go against them again, and again, and eventually you figure out how to beat them. And then you become on top."

(Anybody like to guess who I first heard this from?)

Orion, rooting for the young Georgian she first met some years ago in the days when he and Gagamaru used to meet and sit on the railings of a tiny triangular park near his stable. They were talking in Georgian but when I arrived we switched to Japanese (at a time when I knew a whole lot more than they did).

Orion

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I dunno, Kotooshu himself has gone pretty far without solving his Toyonoshima (and Kakuryu and Aminishiki and Tokitenku...) puzzles. Ditto Harumafuji with Kotoshogiku. Having a specific weakness against a couple of nominally less-skilled rikishi is hardly the end of the world.

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Having a specific weakness against a couple of nominally less-skilled rikishi is hardly the end of the world.

Agree. He is doing very well this basho against the upper end, partly because he is unknown at this level. The next two bashos are going to be his make ( no pun) or break points. The big guys will try to figure out the new guy. A major weakness will be discovered and countered. His reaction to this will prove his mettle.

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He is doing very well this basho against the upper end, partly because he is unknown at this level. The next two bashos are going to be his make ( no pun) or break points. The big guys will try to figure out the new guy.

Exactly. And here the case of Kotooshu is instructive, too: For years following his promotion to ozeki he managed to make a living out of going just 5-5 or 6-4 against lower-rankers and then making up for it with a positive performance against ozeki and yokozuna. And on the other end of the spectrum you had late-career Chiyotaikai who'd easily bust through the joi-jin and then fall to pieces against the high-rankers. There's more than one way to be successful at the top, and the only time you need to be all-around good is those three tournaments in which you earn the promotion in the first place.

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I don't know about "and yokozuna". Kotooshu's record against either yokozuna isn't good. Frankly, I have a hard time detecting that pattern at all with him. If anything, he tends to do well to start with and then has a losing streak against joi-jin and sanyaku. Or am I missing something in his record?

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I don't know about "and yokozuna". Kotooshu's record against either yokozuna isn't good. Frankly, I have a hard time detecting that pattern at all with him. If anything, he tends to do well to start with and then has a losing streak against joi-jin and sanyaku. Or am I missing something in his record?

I was talking about his early ozeki career. Take a look at his first three years or so - while "always 5-5 or 6-4" was a bit of an exaggeration, his numbers sure weren't good. He did comparatively well against ozeki (yeah, nevermind the yokozuna part, I oversimplified).

Nowadays he's posting W>2*L against lower-ranked opponents pretty regularly.

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I dunno, Kotooshu himself has gone pretty far without solving his Toyonoshima (and Kakuryu and Aminishiki and Tokitenku...) puzzles. Ditto Harumafuji with Kotoshogiku. Having a specific weakness against a couple of nominally less-skilled rikishi is hardly the end of the world.

I disagree and am not puzzled at all. I said top level. Kotooshu could be in the yusho race and perhaps his name would be whispered when future yokozuna were pondered if he could get those extra wins in a basho instead of being tossed like a rag doll on days like today or falling flat on his face for Aminishiki's henka so often. It is mostly in his head I think but he needs to get over it to move to the top level.

Harumafuji got to ozeki and got his yusho by solving his 'bad' opponents for a few bashos in a row but sadly he seems to be back on bad form again. Back to inconsistent sumo. Enough to KK his way in ozeki I'm sure but I had and still have higher hopes!

With Hakuho healthy I don't see how anyone can hope to win a yusho knowing from the outset of a basho that they will have guaranteed kuroboshi against one or two rikishi other than Hakuho.

Edited by Harry

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I disagree and am not puzzled at all. I said top level.

But you were talking about Tochinoshin?! Talk about jumping the gun big-time.

Harumafuji got to ozeki and got his yusho by solving his 'bad' opponents for a few bashos in a row but sadly he seems to be back on bad form again.

Or perhaps he never really solved them and just had a short good run to earn the promotion, as is the case for so many ozeki-quality rikishi. Of course if Tochinoshin having one good week at joi-jin makes you ponder what he needs to do to become yokozuna, I can see how you arrived at the above conclusion about Harumafuji, too...

Edit: BTW, Harumafuji's losses in his three promotion tournaments: Baruto, Goeido 2, Hakuho 2, Kakuryu, Kisenosato, Kotomitsuki, Kotoshogiku, Wakanoho. I see plenty of losses against supposedly "solved" opponents in there. He didn't start dominating against Goeido and Kisenosato until he was already ozeki, for one thing.

Edited by Asashosakari

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I'm not sure how we got from Tochinoshin doing well against the top level in this basho and, in my thoughts, being a good candidate for regular appearances in the sanyaku to "Will he be a Yokozuna before the year's end? " (In a state of confusion...) I mentioned back in November that he seemed to be coming of age, and, after an injury timeout, he is starting to show the promise that I was seeing. He is still at least a year from doing a serious Ozeki run. (Eh?)

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