Breaking news-no more Tatsunami Ichimon?

[Kintamayama 47,359]

Breaking news- Tatsunami beya, head of the Tatsunami Ichimon, is about to be ousted from the Ichimon it heads. An urgent meeting was called by the Ichimon on day 9 of Haru basho (March 22nd) and a decision was made to oust them. Since then, there was no contact between the other heyas and Tatsunami, but it is soon to be official. The famous Tatsunami beya which spawned one of the greatest rikishi ever in Futabayama, is soon to become a pariah heya without any Ichimon affiliation. All this is the result of the riji elections held last February. Tatsunami Ichimon was supposed to back Tomozuna and Ooshima , giving them a total pf 20 votes, but they only got 18, forcing Ooshima to lose his place. 2 votes went to Takanohana, giving him the spot instead. Immediately after the elections, a search was held to try to find out who the two renegade Oyakatas were. Ajigawa Oyakata admitted to being one of them the next day. A thorough investigation brought up a surprising name for the second culprit- Tatsunami Oyakata. "I voted for Ooshima Oyakata!", protested Tatsunami. The Ichimon did not believe him and excommunication moves were put into motion. The first visible sign was the Tsu jungyo on April 5th that Tatsunami was supposed to be in charge of. Suddenly during the Haru basho Kumagatani Oyakata was put in charge of it. "The promoter of the Tsu jungyo was Ooshima Oyakata's supporter and he said there was no way the 'betrayer' would head the jungyo," said a close source. This was the point where the excommunication became definite. "I've heard a rumor of the excommunication but it seems like a formal decision has not been made. If they decide to drive me out of the Ichimon, there is nothing I can do about it." With Tatsunami out, the Ichimon will most probably change its name to Isegahama Ichimon. Two months after the elections and the aftershocks keep coming.

Tatsunami-beya:

Edited April 20, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 20,289]

Whoah. To steal a running joke from another place I read: Is that even legal?

Somewhere Kiyokuni is laughing...

Blast from the past:

And here come to inevitable attempts at outing the traitors... Runaway favourite for the missing Nishonoseki vote appears to be Minatogawa-oyakata (former Daitetsu) who reportedly engaged in open criticism of the decision to throw out Takanohana's allies last month. Tatsunami-ichimon is still hunting, but whispers are that one of the votes was more of a case of defiance of Oshima due to long-standing personal issues and less an actual support vote for Taka, while the other was another "young oyakata" rebel on board with Taka's agenda. A member of the ichimon is anonymously quoted at Sports Hochi as suspecting Isegahama and Tatsunami (both former deshi of Oshima, as it happens). All the aforementioned have strenously denied their involvement, perhaps because both groups are talking about excommunication should the responsible oyakatas be found out.

Looks like the very first set of rumours turned out correct here, after all.

[Pippooshu 1]

Politic effects. Ugly effects. I'm sorry for Tatsunami-Beya b'cause is an historical heya.

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

Can anyone see a Takanohana Ichimon forming in the near future?

[Asashosakari 20,289]

Can anyone see a Takanohana Ichimon forming in the near future?

Including Tatsunami-beya, you mean? Depends on whether Tatsunami really did vote for Taka (wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if it was really Isegahama and Tatsunami's just getting scapegoated?), and whether it was a vote of conviction and not just borne of personal antipathy as the quoted comment from back in February insinuated. I'd like to see Tatsunami-beya join Tokitsukaze-ichimon, I think, for the Futabayama connection.

Irrespective of that, Takanohana-ichimon is pretty much a foregone conclusion at this point, I think...I'm guessing it's gonna happen as soon as he gets 10 oyakata together in his group and can ensure his re-election in two years. No reason to keep playing this outsider's role once you're safely part of the establishment.

I wonder how soon-to-retire Ikazuchi-oyakata fits into all this. Going to transfer to another stable in the ichimon or will he decide to leave with Tatsunami-oyakata?

[Chiyozakura 163]

Any background stories on why Oshima should have troubles with two of his most successful deshi?

[Sokkenaiyama 81]

Including Tatsunami-beya, you mean? ...

Yeah, that's what I really meant to ask. I'm pretty confused about the whole thing... Do you mean to tell me they don't know for sure if Tatsunami voted for Takanohana? And if not him, who?

[Pippooshu 1]

Now is there only one disaccorded Heya (Tatsunami apart)? Takadagawa-Beya, I think. Or not?

[ryafuji 825]

Any background stories on why Oshima should have troubles with two of his most successful deshi?

I'd be interested to hear too!

[Kintamayama 47,359]

Including Tatsunami-beya, you mean? Depends on whether Tatsunami really did vote for Taka (wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if it was really Isegahama and Tatsunami's just getting scapegoated?), and whether it was a vote of conviction and not just borne of personal antipathy as the quoted comment from back in February insinuated.

I know I'm not in the know and am guessing just like you are, but I'm 100% convinced it was Tatsunami and am pretty sure they have their proof and Tatsunami knows that. I don't think that if he were innocent, we would be hearing a laconic "What can I do about it" concerning his being kicked out, especially being the Ichimon- leading heya.

And, let us not forget that it's Tatsunami Oyakata here, he of the "I'll marry your ugly daughter for the heya, and after I get it, I'll dump her, and own it anyway" school of thought..

[Asashosakari 20,289]

I know I'm not in the know and am guessing just like you are, but I'm 100% convinced it was Tatsunami and am pretty sure they have their proof and Tatsunami knows that. I don't think that if he were innocent, we would be hearing a laconic "What can I do about it" concerning his being kicked out, especially being the Ichimon- leading heya.

Yeah, my parenthetical comment was a bit pseudo-cynical...I honestly can't imagine any personal reason that could have made Isegahama vote against Oshima, considering that he was set to "inherit" Oshima's riji seat that is now lost for the ichimon. Still and all, like everyone else I'm also curious what Tatsunami's personal reasons may have been.

One part from my February post that I didn't quote above:

Oddly enough I'd already forgotten about it again, but Sports Hochi also alludes to that briefly rumoured alliance between Tatsunami-ichimon and the Taka group. Considering that would have necessitated the ichimon to drop one of its own candidates, it's well possible that the would-be architects of that alliance went ahead and supported Takanohana anyway. (Looks like the ichimon should have made a play for the third fuku-riji spot after all...)

We never did find out what exactly the ramifications of that idea were supposed to be. Failed power play by Tatsunami (intended to be) at Oshima's expense, perhaps.

Edit: Asahifuji's decision to attempt a revival of the Isegahama name a couple of years ago looks positively brilliant right now. Just needs Harumafuji to become yokozuna now and the story will be perfect...

Edited April 20, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 47,359]

Denial? "I voted for Ooshima Oyakata so I have no intention whatsoever of leaving the Ichimon. There is no reason for me to be excommunicated!", declared Tatsunami Oyakata. "There is no intention of summoning Tatsunami Oyakata and what was reported is totally untrue!", added Tomozuna Oyakata. "I don't know the details so I cannot respond," said Takanohana Oyakata.

[ilovesumo 12]

What is a "democratic" vote for if a guy is called a "betrayer"

Sorry but, that's too high for me...

true or not, STINKS, just remember Kobo...

Edited April 20, 2010 by ilovesumo

[Kintamayama 47,359]

Breaking news- Tatsunami beya, head of the Tatsunami Ichimon, is about to be ousted from the Ichimon it heads. The first visible sign was the Tsu jungyo on April 5th that Tatsunami was supposed to be in charge of. Suddenly during the Haru basho Kumagatani Oyakata was put in charge of it. "The promoter of the Tsu jungyo was Ooshima Oyakata's supporter and he said there was no way the 'betrayer' would head the jungyo," said a close source. This was the point where the excommunication became definite.

"No, no, no. One of the jungyo promoters saw an article in a weekly accusing Tatsunami of the betrayal, and asked to change the jungyo head. But in reality, there is no truth in this whatsoever,", said Ooshima Oyakata, denying there is any intention of excommunicating Tatsunami Oyakata.

It's looking more and more like a non-story, but who knows..

Edited April 21, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,359]

Tatsunami Oyakata was conspicuously absent from the Tatsunami rengo keiko today, as was admitted renegade Ajigawa Oyakata. Moukonami from Tatsunami "filled the hole" and stepped up to the occasion with 22 bouts. "I haven't had any contact with him (Tatsunami). If he isn't Ozawa-san ( referring to Ozawa Ichiro, the politician who defected from the LDP to the DPJ) he has nothing to hide, so he should be here," said a visibly uncomfortable Tomozuna Oyakata. Ajigawa did not show up at Miyagino beya, while Tatsunami was at his heya coaching the the young ones as usual. "It's not that I absolutely had to be there. I sent Moukonami, and that should be good enough..", he explained. The Ichimon is slated to meet during the basho and discuss what to do.

[Tamaikazuchi 4]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'd very much like to get a better idea on how this would affect things. What are the benefits of being in an Ichimon and the consequences of being ousted? I realize there are power plays like we saw in the election, but how far reaching are the advantages?

[ilovesumo 12]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'd very much like to get a better idea on how this would affect things. What are the benefits of being in an Ichimon and the consequences of being ousted? I realize there are power plays like we saw in the election, but how far reaching are the advantages?

Guess they wonder too.......

all inner politics. Ichimon is like a faction of a party, discussing who has to vote for whom (democracy?), trying to get their own thoughts into the light.

There are Heya who do many things together, even from different ichimon, cause the buildings are just across the street from each other.

Once talking to an Oyakata about an other one (of an other ichimon), he said "I don't know that guy" - he did not know the other Oyakata in person, cause those 2 Ichimon never meet, never hold keiko together etc.

In the end, they are all rivals, even within an ichimon. Each Oyakata has his own politics, I learned that while on research. It had been individual Oyakata cooperating, not full ichimon, and nobody ever asked the kyoukai.

Ichimon are leftovers of the old days and might fall. IMHO

[Orion 431]

Please forgive my ignorance, but I'd very much like to get a better idea on how this would affect things. What are the benefits of being in an Ichimon and the consequences of being ousted? I realize there are power plays like we saw in the election, but how far reaching are the advantages?

Since the Night of the Long Knives 12 years ago, Takadagawa oyakata, who caused the first real election by insisting on standing, has been 'hamon' -- outside the system (aka 'pariah') and it doesn't really seem to have affected anything, sumo-wise. His gyoji, for instance, continued up the promotion trail without let or hindrance.

OTOH, for some practical purposes, the ichimon system still has some relevance. Those five judges sitting round the dohyo, for instance: each ichimon (or group) nominates four of its oyakata for judging duty, so in the early stages of the day there is a representative of each ichimon (or group) in one of those five seats. When they come back for the last three sittings, one judge in turn sits out to make room for one of the three chief judges (shimpan bucho), who also rotate on a daily basis. They are considered to be above petty politics so the ichimon connection is irrelevant.

But, as someone recently observed, there are other connections. The Dewanoumi ichimon seems to have kept up strong ties and their rengo-geiko sessions are not only important within the ichimon but they attract others. This morning, for instance, I noticed that Takamisakari was at Dewanoumi - and did I imagine it? Hakuho came out right at the end).

I didn't try to but in, as I was doing the laundry on my first day off after a punishing two or three weeks of other occupations, though afterwards I went down into the street and politely greeted (that means a deep bow, to those of you who don't live here) a couple of important Japanese journalists, accompanying Tochinonada back to his stable.

This is all I can manage for now

Orion after a very long day (which included meeting Kotonoviki and renewing goodwill)

[Maguroyama 27]

If this story is true, it's proof of one thing; the ichimon system is a dinosaur and has to go. And I'm thinking that this might also be an ulterior motive on Takanohana's part. So I'm not sure he is planning a Takanohana ichimon, but then what do I know...