Itai's book translations

[Rijicho 6]

Innocence against claims is more often than not that which must be proven - NOT (supposed) guilt of those accused.

Bullshit. No legal system works that way. It would be a practical impossibility.

[Takanobaka 0]

Innocence against claims is more often than not that which must be proven - NOT (supposed) guilt of those accused.

Bullshit. No legal system works that way. It would be a practical impossibility.

I realize you run the site and all, but yoiu seem to be overly agitated....personally, I'd appreciate it if you calmed down a little bit.

ANR actually has a good point there. While "officially" there is an adversarial legal system in Japan, and the burden of proof is on the charging party, the procedural aspects of Japanese law render it almost impossible for the person who is being charged to win. I don't know if you've ever seen the conviction rate in Japan, but it is well over 99%, in great deal because the prosecutors have much greater discretion than in other legal systems. There are things that would be illegal or considered to be extremely bad form in other nations that are perfectly fine for Japanese prosecutors to do.

In addition, while the burden of proof is on the accuser, it is not a standard of "innocent until proven guilty" (it's a preponderance of the evidence standard) and thus convictions and civil victories can be had with only very little circumstantial evidence, and in essence it ends up usually turning out that the accuser wins unless the accused can affirmatively prove that the accuser was mistaken. Finally, the amount of discovery documents that need to be turned over are minimal, and there is no requirement to turn exculpatory evidence to the other side. In essence, the Japanese system works like the British/American system but with extremely powerful prosecutorial bias. It's nothing like the more neutral continental system, and if that's the frame of reference, then the Japanese system would indeed seem strange and unfair.

The last pieces of the puzzle are that punishments tend to be much less strict, judgments are smaller, and that there is less litigiousness in Japan than in European or American countries. Lawsuits are only filed where there is a real legitimate reason to do so (also contributing to the higher conviction rate).

As a connection to the other thread (about copyrights, etc), it is thus extremely easy to defend and kind of trade secret in Japan because the person protecting the mark will be the accuser in any type of infringement case. My guess is that rather than risking having a lawsuit filed against her (and almost certainly losing), the artist would rather clear her work and not have to face the chance that she will be legally reprimanded.

There's probably other attorneys on here who have dealt with Japanese clients who can confirm/explain this better, but this is just from my own limited experience in dealing with Japanese law and scholarly international study.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

You mean if I accused someone in Japan from some sort of crime against me, he would practically be declared guilty unless he could prove an alibi for himself? 99% does sound high but then again in crime cases the percentage must be high. Otherwise prosecutors and police aren't doing their job properly. In Finland the percentage is 94-95% and it's not considered problematic in any way.

Instead of talking in generic terms, let's concentrate on this specific (hypothetical) case of Itai vs. NSK. As you wrote the burden of proof is on the accuser. Itai must prove the yaocho scheme exists, otherwise kyokai could charge him of slander, right? What would happen?

I certainly don't doubt your knowledge on the subject but aren't we basically talking about differences on the limits needed to be crossed to get a convict while the basic procedural rules are the same? Adachinoryu's claim sounded as if the accuser had no obligations whatsoever, except to start a process.

Regarding Mishya, you really mean that if I were a Japanese (or under the area of Japanese law) and I drawed an image depicting a rikishi (identifiable or not?), I would need NSK's approval to, say, scan it and display it on my web site? What about photographs? Isn't Japan a member in copyright conventions giving the photographer any kind of rights to his/her photos? Would this kind of domain (sumoforum.net) be realizable at all in Japan? Would I need Mr. Kitanoumi's permission to even dream about sumo?

Sorry about bad choices of words. I've never studied legal English and it's quite tiring to try to be meticulous about terms. (Eh?)

EDIT: Typos.

Edited March 6, 2004 by Kotoseiya Yuichi

[Fujisan 529]

I have a very simple philosophy on this legal thinking-

"If I aint done anything wrong,I dont have to do anything to prove it-Why should I?"

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

"If I aint done anything wrong,I dont have to do anything to prove it-Why should I?"

Exactly.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Innocence against claims is more often than not that which must be proven - NOT (supposed) guilt of those accused.

Bullshit. No legal system works that way. It would be a practical impossibility.

Somewhere in Japan today, this week or whenever a man will be accused of touching a young woman on a crowded train.

Whether he did it or not he will be encouraged (and some say better off if he will) - to- admit it to secure an early release and reduced punishment. Otherwise - up to 23 days detention with no charges brought & very limited rights regarding legal access is an accepted norm. WRONGFUL DETENTION APOLOGY / COMPENSATION - method of repairing social stigma - even if no charges are brought - NOOO WAAAY :-) :-) :-P (Eh?) (Eh?)

And this is a relatively minor crime (though not for a victim)

:-P

PS - Whilst I receive warnings from you Koto / Rijicho you are not averse to breaking the rule below resulting in warning on the yaocho subject.

Why so sensitive on yaocho?

4. Repeated use of foul language in your postings. -

http://www.sumoforum.net/rules.html

Incidentally - whilst ANR runs the risk of being (Censored) (Censored) (Censored) for this comment which of the rules was it I broke in those that result in a warning that gives me the familiar warning rank I now see?

Edited March 6, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Rijicho 6]

You will all get rid of me soon enough.

For months - no, years - I've harboured the thought of leaving Internet completely and finally. It has been an addictive curse for me for over a decade and spoiled my life. I've practically lost my chances of a career, marriage and parenthood during the last five years.

I might as well do some decisions sooner than later. I will cut off for good any connections I have with the woman I've loved in vain for eleven years. I will leave Internet. That decision has nothing to do with this forum and any of its members as such. I'm tired of all this shit that surrounds me all around. I'm not designed to be in contact with other people. I'm tired of everything in my life. I'm tired of being a pathetic loser in every possible area of life. I might as well shot myself.

Establishing this forum was a mistake in the first place. I should've understood I'm completely the wrong person to try and run a service like this. I should've known I can't bear responsibility. I guess I better go see those neurologists. Perhaps they'll have some stuff to feed into me.

If you're a game administrator, consider Kotoseiya & Kotomimizuku intai from now on. Should you want to contact me, my email address (administrator@sumoforum.net) will probably work until March 31st.

I will try to arrange something during March. Unfortunately there's a basho coming and people have better things to think than finding a way to somehow continue the operation of this forum if it is in someone's interest anyway. I will fill my obligations towards those few forum members who know who they are.

I just hadn't what it takes. I'm truly sorry about that.

[Kashunowaka 298]

Establishing this forum was a mistake in the first place. I should've understood I'm completely the wrong person to try and run a service like this. I should've known I can't bear responsibility.

I just hadn't what it takes. I'm truly sorry about that.

I don't know what to say really ... But you are being too hard on yourself. You are doing a great job as forum administrator. Please don't let one troll drive you away.

Adachinoryu - I suppose you are satisfied now?

Edited March 6, 2004 by Kashunowaka

[Rijicho 6]

Adachinoryu - I suppose you are satisfied now?

Didn't I say this has nothing to do with any single person? One guy is just a drop in an ocean. It has taken me years to reach this conclusion.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Establishing this forum was a mistake in the first place. I should've understood I'm completely the wrong person to try and run a service like this. I should've known I can't bear responsibility.

I just hadn't what it takes. I'm truly sorry about that.

I don't know what to say really ... But you are being too hard on yourself. You are doing a great job as forum administrator. Please don't let one troll drive you away.

Adachinoryu - I suppose you are satisfied now?

A man in his mid-thirties makes a decision. It is a sad decision but men make decisions every day. It's called life.

His reasons are perhaps the most honorable I have seen here since I tried to talk about that topic on the Waka VS Taka thread. In his resignation I see him as closer than ever to the concept of honor as I see it in Japan.

He knew the things he wanted and has / will prioritise as such. Honor means no more internet. I respect that.

Your - 'happy now' comment is that of someone who has lost a toy after fighting with his sister still trying to keep in Mummy's good books by apportioning blame to that sister.

[Rijicho 6]

Everyone can think of what they will about me.

[Fujisan 529]

Why dont you do us all a big favour Adachi and for Gods sake SHUT UP!!!!!

Koto you said its taken you years to come to this decision?

Its taken you years to get the forum to where it is now your saying during all that time you wondered if you should quit?

Doesn't make sense to me-I would like to see what this forum could have been if you had been a successful Rijicho in that case.

[Kashunowaka 298]

Adachinoryu - I suppose you are satisfied now?

Didn't I say this has nothing to do with any single person? One guy is just a drop in an ocean. It has taken me years to reach this conclusion.

OK.

Since you posted in this particular thread, apparently as a response to Adachinoryu's post, I got the impression that his recent postings was the drop which caused the glass to overflow.

It was stupid of me to address Adachinoryu directly. There is no killfile in this forum - not that killfiles help anyway, but I should have chosen to simply ignore his trolling.

[Rijicho 6]

Its taken you years to get the forum to where it is now your saying during all that time you wondered if you should quit?

Doesn't make sense to me-I would like to see what this forum could have been if you had been a successful Rijicho in that case.

Yes, I know it doesn't make sense. Probably because I have the unfortunate trait of perfectionism and felt anxiety for realizing day after day that this forum (and glossary and...) is still (at least in technical sense) light years from what it could and should be and what should have been within the reach of my (meager as such) technical expertise.

[Rijicho 6]

There is no killfile in this forum (...)

Ignore function is promised to IPB 2.0 out later this spring.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Adachinoryu - I suppose you are satisfied now?

Didn't I say this has nothing to do with any single person? One guy is just a drop in an ocean. It has taken me years to reach this conclusion.

It is quite amazing that you have managed to make this forum thrive while all the time thinking of just quitting the Internet. Please don't make a premature decision. Are you completely sure anything that you consider worthwhile will be better for you or someone else if you leave the Internet? I don't know what to say, but I can't really think that leaving the Internet (or for that matter cutting any kind of contacts, be them via the Internet or in "real life") is the answer. This Forum in itself is a great contribution of yours to us, the members, and I very much value your opinions presented here. Please don't leave just like that. I don't know what more I can say. I just hope I can somehow make you change your mind. (Eh?)

Edited March 7, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Rijicho 6]

I don't know what to say, but I can't really think that leaving the Internet (or for that matter cutting any kind of contacts, be them via the Internet or in "real life") is the answer.

I'm certainly not sure about that, either, but I've reached a point where I have no alternatives left. Either I fix my life right here, right now by going into extremes if and when necessary. Small changes have never worked for me. I know I have some kind of neurological defect. Something must be done. It's already too late in many respects.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Why dont you do us all a big favour Adachi and for Gods sake SHUT UP!!!!!

Koto you said its taken you years to come to this decision?

Its taken you years to get the forum to where it is now your saying during all that time you wondered if you should quit?

Doesn't make sense to me-I would like to see what this forum could have been if you had been a successful Rijicho in that case.

Fuji,

Hadn't expected such usage of the Lord's name from one such as you.

Hope he didn't hear.

Not unlike the comment about Darwin you use is the apparent belief that opinions differing from the norm of the day are not acceptable to yourself. Born again via the bottle you often talk about F-san? Often the strictest adherents to any cause.

Only a guess but not dissimilar to the shoeshine thing you posted on myself.

Let's not assume things hey? :-P It makes an ASS out of U and ME

Get it????? (Eh?) (Eh?) :-P :-) :-)

Edited March 7, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Rijicho 6]

Let's leave out the religious stuff, will we?

[Chinonofuji 35]

Clearly, you should do what you feel you need to do.

However, might I suggest taking a 1, 2, or 3-month sabbatical from Sumo Forum (and perahps the Internet generally) before cutting yourself off for good? Perhaps one of the top members here could act as temporary administrator while you collect your thoughts away from the spotlight.

While the load of running this site may seem too large and the standards too high to reach, it may seem different to you a few months from now. As the main architect of this very successful community site, maybe things will look different a few months from now. At that time, you may see all the good you have helped create. It's a pretty amazing site and a great community. Perhaps you'll want to come back as rijicho, perhaps not.

Anyway, just a vote for not being too hasty. If you want to, you can always come back, whether as rijicho or regular member.

Here's wishing you the best. Good for you for taking care of yourself.

C.

[Rijicho 6]

Thank you for your kind words.

[Asashosakari 18,157]

It is quite amazing that you have managed to make this forum thrive while all the time thinking of just quitting the Internet.

I'd like to second that. This forum has become a home for many of us who want to discuss sumo, and a large part of the credit for making it that way goes to you, Rijicho.

I do understand your decision to step away, though. I hope things turn out for the best for you and that you find what you are looking for. And perhaps your desire to get away from the internet and the forum permanently won't be permanent after all. But that's for you to decide; I just know what I'd prefer as the outcome.

[Fujisan 529]

Your right on one thing and wrong on everything else Adachi-

Your right I shouldn't have used the Lords name in vain,it was a slip of the cyber tongue due to me forgetting myself for a minute there.

However I would definately not call my opinions on Darwin being the norm even among believers.

And no my problems with alcohol did not drive me to God,quite the opposite my alcoholism drove me away from God and his church.

[Naganoyama 5,750]

Rijicho. I have great respect for you. I am sure that as far as this forum goes, I am in the majority view on this. I think you are hard on yourself. You have reached a crisis point in your life and you blame yourself.

My opinion (excuse me for volunteering this but I feel I owe it to you to do so) is that if you are anywhere near as good, in other aspects of your life, as you have been in the building of this forum, then you are a good person. ;-)

Please take the time to rebuild your life, away from the Internet if that's what it takes. Then please come back to your friends on this forum if you can.

[Onnagumo 4]

My opinion (excuse me for volunteering this but I feel I owe it to you to do so) is that if you are anywhere near as good, in other aspects of your life, as you have been in the building of this forum, then you are a good person. :-D

Please take the time to rebuild your life, away from the Internet if that's what it takes.  Then please come back to your friends on this forum if you can.

You are clearly much better with words than I am, Naganoyama-zeki, but I fully agree with you.

I really hate to see you go, but I understand that we can't keep you here if you think it is best for you to leave, Rijicho. But please, if you ever feel like it, don't let anything stop you from coming back. You would be very welcome.

In the meantime, I wish you lots of good luck and I hope you will find happiness.

Again,

;-)