Asashoryu INTAI - Feb 4 2010

[Pippooshu 1]

I'm gonna miss him tremendously. Together with Kitazakura's salt-throwing antics, Asashoryu was the FIRST to catch my attention the first time I watched sumo... Aki 2001, when he was Maegashira 1W, and I loved the way that "feisty little Mongolian" kept fighting against the bigger guys. As such I take credit for being a true Asashoryu fan long before everyone else jumped on the bandwagon.

When he became better and better, I was elated. He was THE major superstar of sumo for a long time. When they came to Las Vegas, all the other rikishi were moving about freely and approachable, but far from being crowded by fans, only Asashoryu had a real "air" around him, the sense there was a VIP in the house, followed by fans, photographers, and his entourage.

And I am not a purist... I felt that injecting a little spice into the mix was a good thing, and that the NSK has too many burrs up their ass, considering these guys are major superstars who really don't need to be treated like little kids sometimes... but that's another discussion altogether, and of course he did go too far in certain cases, but also got some major raw deals. ;-)

He will forever be a legend. Farewell, old friend and fighter. :'-(

I think the same! I'm totally agree with your post.

[James H 0]

The real problem with sumo has been the economic success of Japan and the increasing of the middle class. The best rikishi have often come from poor or struggling homes -- they are the ones that are hungriest to reach the top, no matter what the obstacle. The middle class, though, doesn't have that hungry drive. And what's more they're more inclined to play soccer or baseball, sports that sustain their competitive drive without the hard punishment of a fighting sport like boxing or sumo.

It's always good to hear what you have to say about sumo. I think that as well as kids being driven away by sumo's physical punishment, the increasing westernisation of Japanese culture has created a self-consciousness about bodies that didn't use to exist - especially among teenagers.

So teens - hardly renowned for their lack of self-consciousness - are more likely to shy away from a sport where they have to put it all out there. Pee-wee sumo remains quite popular in Japan - little kids love the rough and tumble of it and are don't get too worried about wearing a mawashi and messing about at the contests that are held in shrines around the country (These types of contest even take place in western Tokyo, which is about as westernized/self-consciously sophisticated as Japan gets). But once we get to adolescence, they would much rather be playing baseball or football/soccer.

I'd add that sumo will be hurt by the slow growth of rugby in Japan. It is slowly changing its image: it was an elitist university game but thanks to the Top League - a pro league based on corporate teams - and the Rugby World Cup being held in Japan in 2019, it can only grow in popularity. That will further damage sumo's recruitment hopes because there is an overlap in terms of body types - and rugby has the bigger selling point of a potential university education, the cache of playing a sport with a "good" reputation in Japan, and for the players of not having to run around half naked.

And to perfectly tie in with what Hananotaka says - rugby is the ultimate middle class sport.

Edit - fixed formatting

Edited February 5, 2010 by James H

[Manekineko 200]

Interesting debate about whether Ozumo is a sport (mostly by Nishinoshima and Kozaru) now split off into its own thread. If you notice similar interesting off-topicky things going on in this and other Asa-intai threads, please alert your neighbourhood moderator. We appreciate your help. ;-)

[Feginowaka 53]

What a sad incident for me... ;-)

Who shall i cheer against now?

No more Yokozuna that doesn't act like a Yokozuna.

No more Yokozuna that disrespects the traditions and doesn't have hinkaku.

No more Yokozuna that plays soccer while being injured, and damages his opponents rear mirror, and kicks his opponents injured leg, and gets drunk during a honbasho, and, and, and ...

If he was an ordinary rikishi, all this would be not such a big deal.

But he never understood what it means to be a Yokozuna. :'-(

I think it's not only his fault, that he spurned all the traditions.

Takasago Oyakata also failed in instructing him and should also retire! (Neener, neener...)

Btw, why should Sumo be boring now? (Shaking head...)

Those who like Sumo only as Sport and because of Asashoryu (who was one of the greatest athletes in Ozumo) might find it boring now.

But those who like Sumo as culture, as way of life with its traditions, will still be fascinated of Sumo (and now maybe even more as an impurity has been removed)

Edited February 5, 2010 by Feginowaka

[Hakuyobaku 33]

Soooo who thinks Hakuho will overtake him in number of yusho? Seems he's not prone to playing football or getting piss drunk during a basho? :)

I think so. Asashoryu at his age had 13, but had to retire a bit prematurely. + I don't see some dominant force from below vs Hakuho with possible exception of Baruto next.. two years minimum.

Maybe this belongs to the poll department.

[Kuroyama 715]

I'm going to go out on my inexpert limb and say that Hakuho, while he'll be a fine (if occasionally distracted) yokozuna, will never be the dominant force that Asashoryu was.

Just saying.

[Peterao 3]

Well they've already run the Hawaiians out of sumo, and it looks like the Mongolian purge is now underway, so the Eastern Europe era will probably be in full swing by the middle of the decade. After that, who knows...Africans?

[Fay 1,677]

Well they've already run the Hawaiians out of sumo, and it looks like the Mongolian purge is now underway, so the Eastern Europe era will probably be in full swing by the middle of the decade. After that, who knows...Africans?

Aaaaaa come off it! There are about 35 mongolian rikishi and I do know some of them. They are highly respected by their Oyakata and their stablemates so its nonsense to speak of a mongolian purge under way.

[Fujisan 530]

;-) :'-( (Neener, neener...)

Just another kick in the guts for Asashoryus biggest fan,I'm lost for words........

Absolutely gobsmacked......

[Manekineko 200]

Huh? Why?

Think that was intrinsic to the whole thread. I wrote all I did as part of the arguement why Asashoryu had to go.

Well, to me it looked like a lenghty detour from the main topic, and more general than just Asashoryu (although it's likely that "it's a sport" camp consists mostly of Asa fans). Also it was an interesting debate that (although temporarily over) could well draw other comments, so I felt it deserved a thread of its own to make the discussion more easy to follow - as it was it was interdispersed with general reaction about Asa's retirement.

Anyway, I can always merge it back into this thread if you're convinced I've erred, but let's keep this to PMs, OK? Else we'll start another sub-discusion in this thread.

[Yubinhaad 11,546]

Asashoryu.

Awesome sumo wrestler. Awful Yokozuna.

[sekihiryu 51]

another video from intai day

this one (12mins) from another channel (in Japanese) a news show called zero. Akebono pops up on a panel to put in his two cents worth. Again keep these videos on the 'down low' on the forum, so forum members can enjoy. Recording started part way through.

Edited February 5, 2010 by sekihiryu

[Peterao 3]

Well they've already run the Hawaiians out of sumo, and it looks like the Mongolian purge is now underway, so the Eastern Europe era will probably be in full swing by the middle of the decade. After that, who knows...Africans?

Aaaaaa come off it! There are about 35 mongolian rikishi and I do know some of them. They are highly respected by their Oyakata and their stablemates so its nonsense to speak of a mongolian purge under way.

Chemotherapy doesn't kill cancer cells, it keeps them from reproducing, so they die out with the current generation.

We'll see how many new Mongolians enter sumo over the next five years.

[Babaryutaikai 1]

I understand that the danpatsu shiki is scheduled for September - at least for now. ;-)

Actually, that would be the first weekend in October since the basho ends so late this September.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Babaryutaikai

[Asashosakari 18,786]

We'll see how many new Mongolians enter sumo over the next five years.

Not much of a test, what with the foreigner quota nearly maxed out anyway. Barring a rule change there'll never be another mass recruiting phase as there was from 2000-2002, whether from Mongolia or anywhere else.

[Andreas 0]

Allowing him to intai is actually the old japanese punishment strategy of allowing ritual suicide instead of hanging. Honor intact, offender dead. Of course, in the current case, doing it this way has advantages for both parties. The sumo world avoids an even bigger scandal, and Asashoryu has been washed "clean" by his "voluntary" intai, meaning there will be no further punishments. He can keep the money, and have a danpatsu shiki.

I hope he can maintain dignity and superficial amity to the kyokai until after the ceremony, I think he deserves a big farewell party as a great

[Coo-cook 0]

Just a quick word about the attitude of (many) Mongolians regarding this episode: Let them mourn however they will. Think about the recent history of the country, its current state and the contributions of its people to world wrestling. Most of us would be damn proud if Asa belonged to our country/culture, I know I could use his fighting spirit as inspiration but hey, I'm not Mongolian. So we know better because we live in Japan and/or have access to inner sumo circles, that's cool too.

I only have one thing to say to every Mongolian person visiting this forum: Asa was one of the best rikishi in recent sumo history, if not the greatest, and he picked the right time to go, unlike sooo many stars from other stars. Here's to him. ;-)

Dear Kame,

I just see maybe only 1-2 Mongolians posting on Asa matter right now. Why you say (many) Mongolians...... mourning ..etc ?

Your assumption that (many) Mongolians would be totally blind behind Asa and ignore all his off dohyo theaters is wrong. The "emotions" in Mongolia are as diverse as this forum here.Trust me.

[tarako 3]

I have loved his powerful, fluid sumo and his beautiful dohyo iri. Regardless of the fact that he's been oblivious to what's required of him in order to maintain his status, the JSA has let it go on so long that I found his intai shocking. I will miss him, but I think there are interesting times ahead.

Edited February 5, 2010 by tarako

[Coo-cook 0]

good day all,

there have been some excellent posts here. i was following asa as soon as he hit makushita and knew he would be in the sanyaku ranks 100%. i understand those who didn't like his style, and those who did. i happened to enjoy his intensity.

then from 2003-2007 i lived in mongolia and relished asa fever in the heart of asa land. and my couple of meetings with asa were wonderful moments. asa was the reason mongolians follow sumo more than the japanese.

but sadly, alcohol is also one of mongolia's biggest problems. it is always better to be a happy drunk or quiet drunk rather than a fighting drunk, and sadly, mongolia has too many fighting drunks.

had he stayed, how many yusho could he have won? i wish him the best!!!

-shimodahito

Very true. And sadly Asa is one of the fighting drunks.

I heard rumors that Asa may follow politics in Mongolia...and my concern is we might have another fighting drunk in our parlament.

Otherwise, he has a good heart and very supportive to all sorts of charity and sports in Mongolia. Wish him a good luck.

[Treblemaker 254]

What a sad incident for me... ;-)

Who shall i cheer against now?

No more Yokozuna that doesn't act like a Yokozuna.

No more Yokozuna that disrespects the traditions and doesn't have hinkaku.

No more Yokozuna that plays soccer while being injured, and damages his opponents rear mirror, and kicks his opponents injured leg, and gets drunk during a honbasho, and, and, and ...

If he was an ordinary rikishi, all this would be not such a big deal.

But he never understood what it means to be a Yokozuna. (Laughing...)

I think it's not only his fault, that he spurned all the traditions.

Takasago Oyakata also failed in instructing him and should also retire! (Neener, neener...)

Btw, why should Sumo be boring now? (Shaking head...)

Those who like Sumo only as Sport and because of Asashoryu (who was one of the greatest athletes in Ozumo) might find it boring now.

But those who like Sumo as culture, as way of life with its traditions, will still be fascinated of Sumo (and now maybe even more as an impurity has been removed)

This is, in my mind, the most rediculous post I've ever read here in this Forum. Wrong on so many levels, I have no patience to list them all, except to say that "removing" the "Impurity" will not improve sumo one iota. It will cost sumo.

BTW, the last time I heard that term used towards a person in a group, it had severe negative implications.

I'm not saying Asa didn't deserve it... he was wrong, made foolish and selfish choices, and basically paid for it. But to celebrate the removal of an "impurity" as a positive thing for sumo as a whole is ludicrous. To even call someone an impurity to an organization - after his substantial contributions - is uncalled for.

Among the remaining "purities" left on the dohyo, not one has the ability to inspire passion in the sport. Not a clinician like Hakuho, and certainly there's no one else who shows the intensity and creativity of the departing Assashryu.

So, be happy with your "purified" sumo.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/perspectives/editor...+-+All+Stories)

[Kintamayama 44,354]

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ed2...3A+All+Stories)

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Asashouryuu is in Hawaii (left at 21:00 Friday night), taking time off from his recent ordeals. He is still waiting to see if the police will be questioning him or not.

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Intai interview:

http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/201002...0na014000c.html

[Kimyouzan 2]

The best part of any basho was always seeing Hakuho and Asa face each other. They were the perfect complement to each other, in more ways than one. Hakuho's reaction to Asa's intai was the most interesting to me.

Regardless of his actions that annoyed me, he will be sorely missed by me. What happens in Sumo in the next year or so might make or break the future of the sport.