Asashoryu INTAI - Feb 4 2010

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Asa, you screwed yourself. In doing so, and acting out of pure selfishness, you screwed the whole sumo public, the Kyokai, the NHK, even Ross Mihara. Even Benny Lo!

Oh, man.. I can smile again..

[Washuyama 635]

As an old time watcher of sumo, I'm torn between the entertainment of watching the mastery of Asa on the dohyo and the traditionalist view of how a yokozuna should act.

That said, I wish he would have hung around for a little longer...

...but now Hakuho will have who, Harumafuji or Kotooshu most likely to meet on the final torikumi. I hope they rise to the challenge.

That's something I hadn't thought about until I read this. For me, the anticipation of the Hak-Asa bout on senshuraku regardless of whether the yusho had been decided or not was awesome.

[sekihiryu 51]

20 min video of Asa on the headline news in English

Keep this one on the quiet and among the forum - lest it gets quickly pulled. I put it on a video site called Vimeo (takes longer vids than youtube). Lasts nights headline news in English (dubbed).

Edited February 5, 2010 by sekihiryu

[Kintamayama 44,354]

Ms. Uchidate: He did the right thing to retire. "I decide my own actions" is part of the beauty of the sumo world. It's shameful for a Yokozuna to be removed by punishment. I was regarded as his "nemesis" but I am relieved at his decision. I hope that from now on, foreigners who are in Japan and in other countries, regardless of what their job is, will not forget to respect the ways of the countries they work in and the jobs they have.. Asashouryuu did not fully respect Japan, the sumo world and sumo itself. If he had, more of his good qualities would have emerged and he would have been valued accordingly.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

Special bonus merit, awarded by the rijikai- somewhere in the vicinity of 130,000,000 yen. ( approximately US 1,500,000)

For comparison, and at the risk of setting off the next "he wuz robbed" round:

Wakanohana 70m, Musashimaru 90m, Akebono 100m, Takanohana 130m.

Edit: Nevermind, the above Uchidate quote will surely take the heat off of me now.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Asashosakari

[kuroimori 1,634]

I am sorry should I have caused so much trouble to some of the established forum members by posting my own views and speculations without prior approval. I am going to retire (Neener, neener...)

I suspect you weren't going to stick around beyond this thread anyway. At least that's the usual pattern of most of the Johnny-come-latelies over the years who just had to join in order to rehash all the "Asashoryu wuz robbed" nonsense posted in near-identical wording by uncounted others before, and you're doing it now that it doesn't even matter anymore. So much for "own views" - you didn't need to add the shout-out to ST to know where you're coming from, it was obvious from post #1. (Just to respond to that first post now, since the really obvious answer apparently didn't occur to you: Why do you assume negative effects on recruiting must be an either/or between Asashoryu and the Tokitsukaze incident? Especially since one has been addressed by the Kyokai and the other one had not, until today?)

Anyway, keep enjoying your ignorance dressed up as secret insight into vast conspiracies, I guess. Just promise to come around again for your mea culpa once Hakuho reaches 25 yusho and nary a peep has been raised against it and him in the Japanese press, will you. (Yusho winner...) Though I won't hold my breath...

Edit: Just to be perfectly blunt about it - if you or anyone else seriously chooses to persist in the belief that Asashoryu didn't have a significant part in sealing his own fate, you're really beyond help. And so am I, because I keep forgetting not to argue with quasi-religious people about the central tenets of their faith. Actually, I consider it borderline-insulting to Asashoryu how some people implicitly treat him as a poor little child who just couldn't help himself and was a powerless victim of the evil Kyokai overlords. Give the man some damn credit for the choices he's made in his life. I do, even if I disagreed with many of them.

Keep going, keep going, let it all out if it makes you feel better... gosh!

Why so angry? Where is your 品格 when you're bloggin'?

[kuroimori 1,634]

Special bonus merit, awarded by the rijikai- somewhere in the vicinity of 130,000,000 yen. ( approximately US 1,500,000)

For comparison, and at the risk of setting off the next "he wuz robbed" round:

Wakanohana 70m, Musashimaru 90m, Akebono 100m, Takanohana 130m.

Edit: Nevermind, the above Uchidate quote will surely take the heat off of me now.

Still not over with it....

(Note to self: Uchidate quotes may help calm him down)

Let's see tomorrow, good night everybody!

[Asashosakari 18,786]

Keep going, keep going, let it all out if it makes you feel better... gosh!

Why so angry? Where is your 品格 when you're bloggin'?

It hardly rises to anger when I decide to take a few minutes in between substantive posts to needle a guy who brought a dull knife to a gunfight and patently fails to realize it even after he's been shot a few times already. Considering almost all the other dozens of participants on this thread did bring their guns (read: thoughtful comments from all over the Asashoryu fan<->non-fan spectrum, not ultra-simplistic talking points claptrap that any objective 11-year-old wouldn't buy), it just might be time for even the most fervent believer to start questioning himself. But again, I won't be holding my breath... Enjoy seething some more about the fact that I can't (and won't) take your "views" seriously, I'll retire from this uneven fight now.

Edit: I bet I was right the first time around and you were just trolling for attention anyway. Win-win in that case, you got to troll some and I got to smack down some nonsense again. Have a good night!

Edited February 5, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 44,354]

And now, the diplomatic crisis? A high official linked to the Mongolian President is openly accusing the Kyokai of using the drunken incident to get rid of Asashouryuu before he could break the ultimate 32 basho yusho record held by Taihou. " It looks like the Japanese side has used the so called 'assault incident' as a pretext to bring about the Yokozuna's intai. It seems they couldn't stand the notion that their yusho record held by a Japanese rikishi would be broken. Japan's actions are unfair. The Mongolian people are totally dissatisfied", he said. Other citizens were far more vocal and angry, the Internet brimming with angry talk. "The intai was caused by local pressure" was the underlying thought.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Washuyama 635]

I've also read rumors that Mongolian TV will no longer broadcast sumo.. Not sure of the validity, but that seems kind of harsh...

[Takanorappa 86]

I already feel the empty around sumo. It's a vacant huge place.

That sums me up pretty well... :-O Best in the future, Yokozuna! (Sad goodbyes...)

[ilovesumo 12]

Silly me.......found myself thinking about how Asa might do in Osaka......... :-O

could it be that I am not really realizing it? (Sad goodbyes...)

Some strange dream......... (Please!?...)

[Asashosakari 18,786]

As he retired before they could dismiss him, he retires with full honors, including a danpatsushiki which should be sometime after Aki.

Edit-others are saying it could be after May, and still others are saying (some Oyakatas) that this kind of intai doesn't deserve a danpatsushiki, so maybe everything isn't as straightforward as I thought.

Normal danpatsu turnaround time for ozeki and yokozuna is around one year, no? I wouldn't really expect it to occur still this year, though it's a special enough case that I probably shouldn't "expect" anything. And I suppose the point could become moot if he decides to do something rash and cut it off without ceremony himself...

Special bonus merit, awarded by the rijikai- somewhere in the vicinity of 130,000,000 yen. ( approximately US 1,500,000)

Looks like everyone's just guessing blindly right now...estimates in the press range from "could top 100 million" (Sponichi) all the way to "could reach 150 million" (Hochi). The Taka-level estimate of 130 million is probably not too far off, though my guess is no more educated than the papers'. I'd like them to go above 130, if only to prevent the inevitable reaction in case they don't. And as Hochi reminds us, he did carry ozumo as the sole yokozuna for pretty darn long.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Asashosakari

[wanderer 159]

get rid of Asashouryuu before he could break the ultimate 32 basho yusho record held by Taihou. .....................they couldn't stand the notion that their yusho record held by a Japanese rikishi would be broken.

I've seen this notion raised by several Mongolians. Seems someone forgot to tell them Taiho is half Russian.

There is a huge cultural difference here. I am not saying either side is correct, but pointing out the facts.

Playing a charity soccer for under privileged Mongolian children is a very heartwarming occasion in Mongolia, and Asashoryu duly received standing ovation for it. It makes even more moving when injured Yokozuna plays it, showing great respect for the kids and understanding of the activity. It could not be better when he brings along an international mega star.

On the island however, this is a crime punishable by suspension.

Asashoryu is not a delinquent boy going errant all the time. Rather, his free spirit was in bondage in the last 10 years, and he was pretty much like a pressure cook ready to vent anytime. Nagging him in his every step made it all too difficult for him, and he was expressing his rebellious feelings more and more frequently. Grabbing the kensho wrong way, staring to the judges after a bout, pumping his fist in the air, shoving his opponents after a win. This is as far as he can get on the dohyo.

Let's face it. Majority of Japanese nurtured great deal of dislike towards him. He was threatened, booed on, and accused on a regular basis. It was OK till he won his first few yusho, but increased exponentially with each yusho after 20. That is why he went back to Mongolia, immediately after each basho. But he did not bow to the pressure, and ended up being Asashoryu.

I take it as it is. It is universally wrong to break someone's face off dohyo. Shame on you Asa. It is also glaringly obvious that he did not like Japanese culture, and had no plan assimilating to it. Yet he managed to last this far. In some sense, he achieved more than just 25 yusho.

I don't understand JSA's intention of bringing internationals in, yet expecting them to be model Japanese. It is bound to fail, and we have seen it all. Roho, Wakonoho, Asa ... . In this sense, JSA looks more like a tiny utopian island sinking. It is a fact that Japanese youth no longer likes to go through all the hardship to save their national sport, and foreigners have proven that they can do Sumo as well as Japanese. In that sense, Asashoryu may have revealed many ugly facts of sumo, and Japanese culture at large.

Purity and beauty of sumo? Everything has a limit in this universe. How pure is it when a youngster gets beaten to death. How dignified are the rikishi when they go drinking in nightclubs on a regular basis. you really believe that these testosterone fueled guys go there only to go home keeping their virginity? How sacred is it when no woman can step on the dohyo? Are these rikishi not born of their mother?

[Babaryutaikai 1]

I've seen this notion raised by several Mongolians. Seems someone forgot to tell them Taiho is half Russian.

Key word, Nishi - "HALF". Bottom line, the kyokai's going to have to live with foreigners, though. Hakuho there now, who won't raise too many hackles since he's married to a Japanese woman (I am NOT criticizing him for that - she's a lovely woman); HarAMAfuji, Baruto. Damn, guess I have to add Kotooshu to the mix, against my better judgment, although he, too, married a Nihonjin.

Good thing Uchidate left - no one to criticize now............

Love ya, honey! (Sad goodbyes...)

Edited February 5, 2010 by Manekineko
fixed quote

[Hananotaka 8]

When I first came to Japan in 1998, K-1 was just starting to get Big in Japan. I enjoyed the bouts themselves, but one thing that always bugged me were the entourages surrounding the fighter as he came down the walkway, and jumped into the ring with the winner to get their picture taken with the champ and his trophy. In sharp contrast to this, what I really enjoyed about sumo was that the wrestler walked down the hanamichi, alone and without fanfare. He came up to the dohyo and bowed to his opponent. After the fight, the winner again bowed to his opponent, took his winnings, and then walked back down the hanamichi, alone and without celebration.

I was but a lad of 22, not into budo or traditional Japanese culture, but this appealed to me because there was something manly about it. The rikishi let their sumo speak for itself. The decorum and respect provided a frame for the violent pushes, strikes to the throats, headbutts, and throws off the dohyo. Plus, it made those rare times when a rikishi was overcome with emotion all that more poignant. (I'm looking at you, July 2001 Takanohana!)

When Asa came up, I was a fan. Who could not be? He was this small guy with incredible athleticism and instincts, the wonderful paradox of a Mongolian rikishi who did oshi-zumo. Then the pony-tail thing came up, and then the broken mirror, and other minor scandals and criticisms. When they came up, I would always say the same thing: it's no big deal, sweating the little things is what they do here in Japan, especially with Yokozuna; Asashoryu's young, he'll mature, and everything will be all right. But I was wrong. Things didn't get better, they got worse. The off-the-dohyo stuff didn't bother me all that much. Much of it was just tabloid shit-stirring. (My take: if it doesn't make the evening network news, it's not a real story.) But along with that, and perhaps what really turned me off Asashoryu, was that his manners on the dohyo got worse and worse. Fist pumps, kicking guys when they were down, unnecessary shoves for emphasis, not bowing after losses, sneering at the shimpan. Then the henka started, which was rich.

The soccer incident hit, and I figured it would blow over. He'd come back to Japan, make an apology, pay a fine, maybe serve some kind of suspension or restriction to his residence, and then things would be back to normal. How that story dragged on and on for months was embarrassing, and frustrating as a sumo fan. You'd like for sumo coverage to be about the latest developments in the basho, not endless speculation on whether he was clinically depressed, or needed to go to Mongolia, or what he was doing in Mongolia.

I haven't cared about Asashoryu since then. His sumo got sloppy and harried (though strong and quick as ever), his dohyo demeanor sucked, and every month it was a new mini-scandal. He'd made sumo less enjoyable for me. I don't claim that that's particularly fair or even rational. It's just a subjective, emotional reaction. In 2001 he made sumo very enjoyable for me. From 2006-2009, sumo as a whole seemed to get further and further away from what attracted me to it in the first place, a trend that was exemplified by Asashoryu.

I can't even really say I'm happy with the intai. Certainly I would have preferred for Asashoryu to quit as part of a changing of the guard, or to make a change in his life, not amid scandal like this. I don't even know if it's enough to rekindle my passion for sumo (the interest is always there, the passion not so much). I think it'll take a drastic reduction in Triple-H sumo for that to happen. Tachiai antics with Chiyotaikai and Kisenosato aside, at least Asashoryu never fell into the rut of henka, hataki, and hiki.

[Treblemaker 254]

And now, the diplomatic crisis? A high official linked to the Mongolian President is openly accusing the Kyokai of using the drunken incident to get rid of Asashouryuu before he could break the ultimate 32 basho yusho record held by Taihou. " It looks like the Japanese side has used the so called 'assault incident' as a pretext to bring about the Yokozuna's intai. It seems they couldn't stand the notion that their yusho record held by a Japanese rikishi would be broken. Japan's actions are unfair. The Mongolian people are totally dissatisfied", he said. Other citizens were far more vocal and angry, the Internet brimming with angry talk. "The intai was caused by local pressure" was the underlying thought.

I've also read rumors that Mongolian TV will no longer broadcast sumo.. Not sure of the validity, but that seems kind of harsh...

Notwithstanding the fact that (a) he went drinking (b) to an establishment not usually equated with the Ritz, with © people of apparently questionable backgrounds, and (d) got rediculously drunk, and (e) beat the crap out of somebody, then (f) lied to his bosses and the public, and (g) made the same mental pharrt choices in doing so in the first place, (h) in the middle of a basho!!!

To all partisan & political freaking-out-ers: Get a brain!

Simple decision. No pub-hopping in middle of basho = no problems.

Rules for survival:

Never give enemies ammunition to shoot you with.

Never believe you are immortal.

Never point the finger of blame where you are at fault.

Simple, really.

[wanderer 159]

I don't understand JSA's intention of bringing internationals in, yet expecting them to be model Japanese. It is bound to fail, and we have seen it all. Roho, Wakonoho, Asa ..

Takamiyama, Akebono, Hakuho, Kakuryu.

No it's not.

Yes it is. It is enough to have just one rebellion. Even more so when the rebel is at the top. I ask Japanese to produce their wooden rooster and bring back the divine peace to the Sumo as soon as possible. If can't, be prepared to have foreigners.

[Babaryutaikai 1]

Someone I know who is not a member of the forum took this great photo in the shitakubeya on senshuraku last month.

She has given me permission to share it.

Thank you Cさん。

I second that thanks. This is a great photo, and you can see the photographer if you look REAL hard into the cup!

[Ulaanbaatar 0]

http://mongolnews.mn/i/1152

Монгол Улсын заан Долгорсүрэн- Зодог тайлах байх гэж бодож байсан. 25 удаа башёд түрүүлж, сүмогийн түүхэнд нэрээ үлдээсэнд нь баярлаж явдаг. Нэгдүгээр сарын тэмцээнд түрүүлээд, харих яагаа ч үгүй байсан. Миний хүү эр зоригтой шийдвэр гаргасан гэж бодож байна.

Father Dolgorsuren:- I had feeling he might go intai. I am glad that he won 25 basho and left his name in the sumo history. But he could have win more, as I watch him winning January basho

I think my my son made brave decision

Дархан аварга Ж.Мөнхбат

Edited February 5, 2010 by Ulaanbaatar

[kame 0]

Just a quick word about the attitude of (many) Mongolians regarding this episode: Let them mourn however they will. Think about the recent history of the country, its current state and the contributions of its people to world wrestling. Most of us would be damn proud if Asa belonged to our country/culture, I know I could use his fighting spirit as inspiration but hey, I'm not Mongolian. So we know better because we live in Japan and/or have access to inner sumo circles, that's cool too.

I only have one thing to say to every Mongolian person visiting this forum: Asa was one of the best rikishi in recent sumo history, if not the greatest, and he picked the right time to go, unlike sooo many stars from other stars. Here's to him. (Sad goodbyes...)

[ryafuji 807]

Sumo wrestler who won more than 10 times can have right establsih own sumo school and receive support.

Looks like Kyokushuzan has some inside info no-one else knows. (Sad goodbyes...)

I guess those 10 wins need to open your own stable just seemed a road too far for Sugishita

Was he trying to refer to the fact that twenty or more yusho generally gets you ichidai-toshiyori status? Of course having Japanese citizenship is rather important too...

Edited February 5, 2010 by ryafuji

[Kozaru 0]

Someone I know who is not a member of the forum took this great photo in the shitakubeya on senshuraku last month.

She has given me permission to share it.

Thank you Cさん.

That's an awesome photo.

[Torabayama 51]

Anyone want to make a compilation video of his fights with Hakuho?

I hope some takes you up on this.... all 29 bouts (regulation and playoff). It would make a memorable collection.

[shimodahito 291]

good day all,

there have been some excellent posts here. i was following asa as soon as he hit makushita and knew he would be in the sanyaku ranks 100%. i understand those who didn't like his style, and those who did. i happened to enjoy his intensity.

then from 2003-2007 i lived in mongolia and relished asa fever in the heart of asa land. and my couple of meetings with asa were wonderful moments. asa was the reason mongolians follow sumo more than the japanese.

but sadly, alcohol is also one of mongolia's biggest problems. it is always better to be a happy drunk or quiet drunk rather than a fighting drunk, and sadly, mongolia has too many fighting drunks.

had he stayed, how many yusho could he have won? i wish him the best!!!

-shimodahito