Asashoryu INTAI - Feb 4 2010

[kuroimori 1,634]

BTW, The Great Dai-Yokozuna Chiyonofuji was also quite famous for his off the dohyo antics during hon-basho tournaments (actually much worse than Asa's) but the JSA never complained about that or even suggested penalties, they covered up any of such news, he was and still is idolized.

You must have missed the decade-long effort to blackball Chiyonofuji from advancing in the Kyokai power structure after he retired from active competition. Which is odd, considering all the apparent insider knowledge evident in your post. (Neener, neener...) (Make sure you warn Hakuho of the impending conspiracy against him!)

Well, what a harsh penalty that must've been for Chiyonofuji. (Yusho winner...)

He probably gives a rat's ass about that.

How does climbing the ranks in the JSA compare to dominating the dohyo? IMHO, JSA offers a chance to reach at least something for those rikishi who weren't that succesful during their active careers.

[Asashosakari 17,304]

He probably gives a rat's ass about that.

Yeah, because people with a competitive streak are so totally able to turn it off immediately once they're not active athletes anymore and they're perfectly okay with being pushed around in their new job. Belated welcome to the forum BTW, I'm sure you'll get the hang of this "thinking before posting" thing in due time.

(Have I been Monika'ed? Apologies to the rest of the forum, if so.)

[Yuriyama Ren 1]

Sad to see him go. Asa's fast and technical sumo was quite impressive. Hakuho is not quite as good (yet?). I wasn't fond of Asa's post-bout / off-dohyo antics though. And this isn't the end of sumo. The next few bashos will be interesting.

Will Hakuho dominate? Will the ozekis start to move their ass for a change? Will Baruto have an easy completion of his ozeki run? What will Kisenosato do?

The previous 2 basho suspension provided less opportunity for others to shine. But now the landscape has permanently changed.

[kuroimori 1,634]

He probably gives a rat's ass about that.

Yeah, because people with a competitive streak are so totally able to turn it off immediately once they're not active athletes anymore and they're perfectly okay with being pushed around in their new job. Belated welcome to the forum BTW, I'm sure you'll get the hang of this "thinking before posting" thing in due time.

(Have I been Monika'ed? Apologies to the rest of the forum, if so.)

I am sorry should I have caused so much trouble to some of the established forum members by posting my own views and speculations without prior approval. I am going to retire (Neener, neener...)

[yorikiried by fate 1,842]

I'm sure you'll get the hang of this "thinking before posting" thing in due time.

(Neener, neener...) (Yusho winner...)

[kuroimori 1,634]

I'm sure you'll get the hang of this "thinking before posting" thing in due time.

(Neener, neener...) (Yucky...)

Watch out, he seems to have some issues dealing with people who dare to disagree (In love...)

P.S: Danke f

[Torabayama 51]

I was still hoping for an Asashoryu Oyakata. But that's probably crazy thinking. Funny to think that Taiho (32), Chiyo (31), Kita (24), and Taka (22) were all offered the one generation share for their achievements but Asa will go without. I know its his own doing for not pursuing Japanese citizenship but I felt he deserved the honor none the less. I hope he remains active in the sumo world somehow (and doesn't take the K-1 route a la Akebono), even if it is helping train and prepare Mongolian kids for a future in the sport.

[Kuroyama 715]

I was still hoping for an Asashoryu Oyakata. But that's probably crazy thinking. Funny to think that Taiho (32), Chiyo (31), Kita (24), and Taka (22) were all offered the one generation share for their achievements but Asa will go without. I know its his own doing for not pursuing Japanese citizenship but I felt he deserved the honor none the less. I hope he remains active in the sumo world somehow (and doesn't take the K-1 route a la Akebono), even if it is helping train and prepare Mongolian kids for a future in the sport.

I doubt Asa would enter any competition where he didn't feel he had a reasonable chance of doing very well, and with the precarious state of his elbow I don't know that K-1 is that.

He'd make a magnificent puroresu heel though, wouldn't he?

[ilovesumo 12]

I think this forced retirement doesn't leave a spot open for him as a part of the Sumo world - and why would he want that?

Kiss my....good bye kakkai, I do believe he is out and gone.

[Washuyama 600]

Maybe the Mongolian Amasumo team gets some help... That might spark some more interest in amateur sumo!

Edited February 4, 2010 by Washuyama

[sekihiryu 51]

The flip side of that is that Asashoryu's continuous bad behaviour and scandals turns many people off. He did nothing to make parents think they would want their kid to join that world. As someone who is involved in kids sumo in Japan I'd say one of the things parents like most is the teaching of respect, manners and discipline in sumo.

Hakuho is a great fighter, but his sumo is boring and he's boring.

Not to me and not to a lot of people. Anyone can be a thug and a bully. That's boring. Watching someone show complete self control and embody the ideal of a yokozuna both on and off the dohyo is a helluva lot more interesting.

actually the more I contemplate the more I think boring is the wrong word, it is hard to call his surgically precise sumo boring as such, No, I think what puts many off Hakuho is his seeming lack of "charisma". While loaded with hinkaku and talent he has a Gerald Ford-ness about him.

Edited February 4, 2010 by sekihiryu

[Torabayama 51]

Maybe the Mongolian Amasumo team gets some help... That might spark some more interest in amateur sumo!

Continuing on that note, I really like the work he's been doing for children's sumo, as seen in "Unknown Asashoryu".

[sekitori 492]

Although there was strong pressure on him to retire, Asashoryu went out on basically his own terms. He made the announcement first, before the NSK could penalize him further. What's more, he retired when he was still on top. He won the Hatsu basho very impressively. His loss to Hakuho was meaningless (except maybe to Hakuho) since he had already won the tournament. How many professional athletes retire while they're still at their peak? There have been very, very few. I can think of maybe Rocky Marciano in boxing and Sandy Koufax in baseball. It's close to impossible to step away from a sport while you're at the the top of your game.

It appears that if he remained active, Asashoryu may have had to serve some sort of suspension. He did that once but he came back and proved that he still could compete as well as ever. There was no point for him to do that again. He had nothing more to prove. The only thing he couldn't accomplish was overtaking Taiho's 32 yusho record and considering his injuries, it would be extremely doubtful if he could come up with anything even close to eight more yushos. Stlll, he ended up winning 25 tournaments, the third best record of all time. He won 15 of 18 yushos from 2004 to 2006 with a perfect 6-0 record in 2005.

Asashoryu is an individualist in a field where individualism is frowned on. There is no room for nonconformists in sumo. Takamisakari may be considered one, but he's more of a quirky showman that an individualist. Yet despite his difficulty accepting authority in a field where that acceptance is demanded, Asashoryu managed to survive and he did it extremely well. While he may have some sadness leaving at this point in his career, I'm sure he has a bigger sense of relief knowing that now he can live the way he wants to without being criticized every time he says or does anything that may be considered questionable. I'm also sure now that he's retired, he will want nothing more to do with sumo.

He retirement reminds of Frank Sinatra's famous song, "My Way" which ends:

The record shows I took the blows and did it my way.

Yes, it was my way.

Asashoryu did things "his way". I liked him but whether you liked him or not, he will be remembered and will be sorely missed.

[paolo 0]

For years I have been waking up in the morning and rushing to this forum to see "what has happened yesterday and what is happening today", even when there was no basho going on. And 90% of the interesting things were "Asashoryu did this" or "Asashoryu said that". How much of this will survive ?

Interesting? That was the most tiresome part of the last few years for me. There are dozens of aspects of Ozumo that I can easily work up more of an interest for, and if anything perhaps Asashoryu's departure will finally wean a few more people off the cheap thrills.

....

Anyway, as long as Ozumo continues to hold that national icon status, any true renaissance of the sport will require a yokozuna with strong hinkaku (well, probably more than one) who can capture the attention of the wider public, and so all the "but Hakuho is sooo boring!" cries are completely missing the point. It's no coincidence that, for all the on-dohyo excitement Asashoryu brought, it never really resulted in strong business for the Kyokai, even after Hakuho arrived to provide a good guy counterpart - all the while plenty of people here and elsewhere always acted as though Asashoryu should have been capable of drawing in the masses by his sheer charisma alone. That's just not how it works.

Once more I may think that life is beautiful because people and opinions are so different...

[Asashosakari 17,304]

I am sorry should I have caused so much trouble to some of the established forum members by posting my own views and speculations without prior approval. I am going to retire (Neener, neener...)

I suspect you weren't going to stick around beyond this thread anyway. At least that's the usual pattern of most of the Johnny-come-latelies over the years who just had to join in order to rehash all the "Asashoryu wuz robbed" nonsense posted in near-identical wording by uncounted others before, and you're doing it now that it doesn't even matter anymore. So much for "own views" - you didn't need to add the shout-out to ST to know where you're coming from, it was obvious from post #1. (Just to respond to that first post now, since the really obvious answer apparently didn't occur to you: Why do you assume negative effects on recruiting must be an either/or between Asashoryu and the Tokitsukaze incident? Especially since one has been addressed by the Kyokai and the other one had not, until today?)

Anyway, keep enjoying your ignorance dressed up as secret insight into vast conspiracies, I guess. Just promise to come around again for your mea culpa once Hakuho reaches 25 yusho and nary a peep has been raised against it and him in the Japanese press, will you. (Yusho winner...) Though I won't hold my breath...

Edit: Just to be perfectly blunt about it - if you or anyone else seriously chooses to persist in the belief that Asashoryu didn't have a significant part in sealing his own fate, you're really beyond help. And so am I, because I keep forgetting not to argue with quasi-religious people about the central tenets of their faith. Actually, I consider it borderline-insulting to Asashoryu how some people implicitly treat him as a poor little child who just couldn't help himself and was a powerless victim of the evil Kyokai overlords. Give the man some damn credit for the choices he's made in his life. I do, even if I disagreed with many of them.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 42,305]

After a few hours it's sinking in, and it has pretty much devastated me. Big word, devastated-I'm out of my own element right now (overseas) so it really didn't strike home at first, but as night fell I am really sad. I won't repeat how I got to know him since it has already bored everyone to death, but with all due respect to Zenjimoto, I saw his total dominance when he was in Makushita when I saw him train for three consecutive hours, until Ichinoya had to shout at him from the kitchen to leave the poor guys alone.. No doubt about it, he had IT, and I had no doubt that he was the next Yokozuna. I also predicted a few years ago (tiresomely many times) that he would go out with a bang. What a derailment of a magnificent train.

Damn, damn, damn.

Hakuhou= Yokozzzuna? We shall see..

[Tamaikazuchi 4]

Wow. I snuck in just in time to see his last yusho.

Being a brand new fan to the sport I am filled with regret and also relief. When I first started my research, one of my greatest disappointments was finding out that Asa was a perennial bad boy. Watching what he could do on the dohyo was mesmerizing, but his attitude and actions really let all his work down. I am saddened that I wont have the opportunity to watch any more of his sumo as it happens. However I am relieved as it seems to me that sumo has gotten a monkey off of it's back. Even if it is a hit to ticket sales, I think they have gained quite a bit of stability.

Also, inexperience noted, I am very excited to see how things move along from here. It is a general rule in many things that voids tend to be filled, a previous post mentioning big shifts every decade or so touches upon this. This is a big change, and I am extremely interested to see how the pieces fit. If I wasn't brand new and already pretty excited by just about everything, I think this may have had a revitalizing effect on me.

Overall I believe this was a good move for both parties.

[Asashosakari 17,304]

He'd make a magnificent puroresu heel though, wouldn't he?

Considering the press has openly used the "heel" word in reference to Asashoryu for years now, almost certainly. And he could even play the Muhammad Hassan card and adopt the "poor oppressed Mongolian up against nationwide xenophobia" character that many of his fans already seem to assume he is... No, just kidding. Actually I assume he'd be hugely over as a gutsy, take-no-prisoners babyface, because for all his faults outside the dohyo his charisma always really seemed to play well to the fans, rather than against them. Few people seemed to be inspired to actively root against him in the arenas, most non-fans were probably more in the "ignore him and it'll be over sometime" camp, simply because there was no denying his on-dohyo greatness even for his biggest detractors. And he's effectively gone through his heel phase in ozumo already now, anyway...might be time to try something different if he decides to go that way.

Besides, considering all the glimpses into Asashoryu's psyche that we've got over the last few years, I think he'd quite enjoy playing a universally-loved character.

Edited February 4, 2010 by Asashosakari

[Harry 67]

I am sad and happy at the same time. I know he wanted to go onto other things, he told me so himself last July when I was so fortunate to meet him, so I am happy that he will now be able to do those other things. I think he was feeling a bit trapped by the obligations of sumo. I am sad because unless his jokes about coming to Canada to learn English were more than just jokes I know that I will never meet him again. He was too free a spirit to be constrained by the rules of sumo I think. His end was his own, both today and the cause of it earlier, his fault, his choice.

I merely hope that the sanyaku can step up to the challenge of Hakuho to make sure that the yusho are decided on the last day. Even if Hakuho wins them all for now, I at least hope it is on senshuraku with some sort of suspense about the outcome, a kettei sen may be too much to ask for but at least let it be decided by the musubi no ichiban once in a while. Asashouryu himself was not much of a challenge for Hakuho during the regular basho but now Hakuho will have who, Harumafuji or Kotooshu most likely to meet on the final torikumi. I hope they rise to the challenge.

[Kuroyama 715]

He'd make a magnificent puroresu heel though, wouldn't he?

Considering the press has openly used the "heel" word in reference to Asashoryu for years now, almost certainly. And he could even play the Muhammad Hassan card and adopt the "poor oppressed Mongolian up against nationwide xenophobia" character that many of his fans already seem to assume he is... No, just kidding. Actually I assume he'd be hugely over as a gutsy, take-no-prisoners babyface, because for all his faults outside the dohyo his charisma always really seemed to play well to the fans, rather than against them. (Few people seemed to be inspired to actively root against him in the arenas, most non-fans were probably more in the "ignore him and it'll be over sometime" camp.) And he's effectively gone through his heel phase in ozumo already now, anyway...

Besides, considering all the glimpses into Asashoryu's psyche that we've got over the last few years, I think he'd quite enjoy playing a universally-loved character.

When you put it like that, I could see him going either way. I entirely agree with you about fan reactions.

Maybe he could even pull off that most difficult of gimmicks: the universally loved heel, a la The Rock.

[Kintamayama 42,305]

Sad to see him go. Can't wait to see how Asashoryu's dampatsu-shiki will be handled.

As he retired before they could dismiss him, he retires with full honors, including a danpatsushiki which should be sometime after Aki.

Edit-others are saying it could be after May, and still others are saying (some Oyakatas) that this kind of intai doesn't deserve a danpatsushiki, so maybe everything isn't as straightforward as I thought.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Kintamayama

[Zuikaku 0]

It is sad to see him go, although I guess the ending of his career could had been worse so maybe it is even good that it went like that, with 25th Yusho standing as result of final basho.

On other hand, ironically his retirement did come right after Uchidate's.

[Treblemaker 254]

Bad day all round... Asa's stupidity cost him. Period.

I often tell my students that the only person standing in their way to success is themselves. This case is a perfect example.

I feel sorry not to be able to see any more bouts between him and Hakuho. I feel bad for sumo in general.

Asa, you screwed yourself. In doing so, and acting out of pure selfishness, you screwed the whole sumo public, the Kyokai, the NHK, even Ross Mihara. Even Benny Lo!

Frankly, I feel robbed. Shortchanged. Swindled.

The banzuke I'm currently left with inspires me not. Yes, there are some excellent athletes left. Hakuho will go well beyond Asa's records, and become his own legend.

Even so, I feel let down. Not that I didn't see this coming, sooner or later...

[kawika 123]

My wife told me on the phone, when I called back home from a business trip, telling me it was on the news and how it was a big drama, and just like Kintamayama, I am away when the biggest sumo news story hits the stands, ugh. I'll miss Asashoryu, wasn't a big fan but always enjoyed his ability and especially that we had two yokozuna to face off each basho. Now I don't know when another yokozuna will break through, maybe not for another 3-4 years.

[Kintamayama 42,305]

Money:

Retirement money: Around 35,000,000 yen. (US 392,244)

Special bonus merit, awarded by the rijikai- somewhere in the vicinity of 130,000,000 yen. ( approximately US 1,500,000)