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Kintamayama

Retirements-Hatsu 2010

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Makuuchi:

Chiyotaikai

Makushita:

Daimanazuru (ex-sekitori)

Tamarikidou (ex-Sekitori)

Aoba- losing his eyesight

Sandanme:

Ryuuyou (one of the notorious Ryuuyou-Ryuuhou-Ryuuou go fetch your glasses- gang)

Satsukiumi

Satsumanishiki

Arashiumi

Jonidan:

Tochihibiki

Chiyofubuki

Raihou

Watagawa

Shishiou

Tsubasaumi

Jonokuchi:

Kawasaki

Katou

Akitomo

Higashi

Kotonishizuka - just got here

Toubaru - just got here

Banzuke guys:

Nanbu

Shougou

Edited by Kintamayama

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why banzuke guys are retiring?
I may not have understood whether you understood Kintamayama's creative use of words, but just in case: the "banzuke guys" that Kintamayama has referred to are rikishi who are officially listed as "banzuke-gai" or off-banzuke. Rikishi fall off the banzuke because of injuries or suspensions, so in fact they are the most likely to retire since they often haven't been taking part in hon-basho for long stretches of time.

BTW, does anyone know what the longest recorded banzuke-gai stint was?

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BTW, does anyone know what the longest recorded banzuke-gai stint was?

Pretty sure I've seen some in the DB that were well over two years, but that may just have been a case of nobody bothering to hand in the retirement notice. (Or the dreaded pre-1989 not-quite-100%-reliable data.) Longest stint by somebody who actually came back - this guy probably isn't the record holder, but he's one I remembered immediately.

.

.

.

Ah, and scouring my own ancient banzuke-gai posts (anyone remember those?), here's a 2-year non-returnee, and this guy also lingered for a while. And Amaamami might be close to the record for somebody who did return.

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According to my sources, Kitazakura and Kaishoryu are going to retire too.

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According to my sources, Kitazakura and Kaishoryu are going to retire too.

Kitazakura may be pulling a who was it can't remember right now -Wakanojoe? and waiting for the kabu to babu.

Edited by Kintamayama

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According to my sources, Kitazakura and Kaishoryu are going to retire too.

Kitazakura may be pulling a who was it can't remember right now -Wakanojoe? and waiting for the kabu to babu.

Wakatoba

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According to my sources, Kitazakura and Kaishoryu are going to retire too.

Will be on Haru banzuke obviously since this was the complete list. After Haru... well everyone will retire eventually. :-P

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According to my sources, Kitazakura and Kaishoryu are going to retire too.

Kitazakura may be pulling a who was it can't remember right now -Wakanojoe? and waiting for the kabu to babu.

The talk has always been that when Kitazakura retired, he would borrow his shisho's Onogawa kabu. However, currently that is on loan to Yotsukasa, and since there isn't any vacant myoseki, Kita retiring right now would mean sayonara to Yotsukasa.

On March 8, Sendagawa Oyakata will reach age 65. It is believed fellow pariah Takadagawa, who switched stock with Sendagawa, is earmarked to join Dewanoumi Ichimon after Sendagawa leaves the Kyokai. It would make sense that they are waiting until March to announce Kitazakura's intai to facilitate the necessary move(s) to accommodate both him and Yotsukasa.

The timing of retirement is all important. A lot of guys would retire today if they already had kabu or if their intai would not result in another guy losing his job as oyakata.

A keen observer noticed that in Kitazakura's blog, he did not include his traditional "I will gambarize again next basho" in his post-Hatsu Basho statement . . .

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Well let's say both Kitazakura and Kaishoryu had their last bouts at Hatsu Basho ...

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The timing of retirement is all important. A lot of guys would retire today if they already had kabu or if their intai would not result in another guy losing his job as oyakata.

And we'll probably get more and more of it. The Great Oyakata Retirement Festival of 2013 is slowly approaching...

(I've been meaning to update that post for about half a year now, but I guess I might as well wait for Sendagawa and related developments now. Argh, and I've been sitting on stuff to discuss for the kabu part of the DB, too...)

Well let's say both Kitazakura and Kaishoryu had their last bouts at Hatsu Basho ...

So you just mean they won't be around for Hatsu 2011? :-P

Edited by Asashosakari

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Just to give you an idea of how things work, here is the case of the aforementioned Yotsukasa, who in a relatively undistinguished career reached the height of maegashira 11. Since his retirement from active sumo in Nov. 2005, a little over four years ago, he has had five oyakata names, including jun-toshiyori. The guy has lived a charmed life, bouncing from one borrowed kabu to another, propitiously made available to him and not someone else. Either he is a very nice guy loved by all, a protege of someone with a lot of clout, or he knows where some skeletons are buried.

For a while, he had the use of Wakafuji, which belonged to his heya-mate Otsukasa, but by mid-2008, it became clear that Otsupotsu would need his kabu soon. So, arrangements were made for Yotsukasa to change to Sekinoto in September. Sekinoto (Kinkaiyama) changed to Inagawa to allow for that. Then, in March of the following year, Otsukasa retired and took over his own myoseki.

Meantime, Onogawa became vacant when former Shikishima changed to Tanigawa. That allowed Ushiomaru to park there temporarily when he retired in May 2009 until Azumazeki Oyakata retired in June for him to take over the heya. Onogawa became vacant at this point.

But, one month later, Yotsukasa changed to Onogawa. Why? To let Buyuzan, who had Onaruto on loan, take over Sekinoto. Are you still following? That was because the owner of Onaruto, former ozeki Dejima, was ready to retire and needed the myoseki for himself.

Now, Kitazakura is ready to retire and needs an oyakata slot. The only vacant kabu after Taikai's intai was Kise/Naruto's Araiso. That was why it was such an irony that Kitazakura's last bout was against Tamarikido. Under normal circumstances, Kitanoumi and Naruto might have been able to arrange for Yotsukasa to borrow Araiso for the time being. However, with the Kyokai election, each ichimon was careful about who had each and every vote. Tamarikido belongs to Kataonami Beya in the same Nisho Ichimon as Naruto Oyakata. Yotsukasa has to wait for the next opening. Kitazakura, apparently, is willing to cooperate.

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For a while, he had the use of Wakafuji, which belonged to his heya-mate Otsukasa, but by mid-2008, it became clear that Otsupotsu would need his kabu soon. So, arrangements were made for Yotsukasa to change to Sekinoto in September. Sekinoto (Kinkaiyama) changed to Inagawa to allow for that.

It may also be worth mentioning here that Yotsukasa didn't simply transition into Inagawa himself because that share is held by Futeno, a stablemate of Kinkaiyama. So the latter got to "upgrade" from a cross-beya loan (Sekinoto's owned by Iwakiyama) to a more stable one inside his own heya, and Yotsukasa got to pick up the scraps.

Meantime, Onogawa became vacant when former Shikishima changed to Tanigawa. That allowed Ushiomaru to park there temporarily when he retired in May 2009 until Azumazeki Oyakata retired in June for him to take over the heya. Onogawa became vacant at this point.

I apologize for hijacking the thread further, but...can I just mention my rapidly-aging post about Hokutoriki acquiring the Tanigawa share again? I haven't seen it acknowledged in the "serious" places on the Japanese side of the aisle and consequently it's also not on the SDB, but the (on these matters usually very well-informed) folks at 2ch have been treating this as a completely done deal ever since, listing Hokutoriki as a kabu owner in the regular updates posted there. Does anyone have further corroboration for that, or even contradicting info? (I'll take anything at this point.)

Edited by Asashosakari

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For a while, he had the use of Wakafuji, which belonged to his heya-mate Otsukasa, but by mid-2008, it became clear that Otsupotsu would need his kabu soon. So, arrangements were made for Yotsukasa to change to Sekinoto in September. Sekinoto (Kinkaiyama) changed to Inagawa to allow for that.

It may also be worth mentioning here that Yotsukasa didn't simply transition into Inagawa himself because that share is held by Futeno, a stablemate of Kinkaiyama. So the latter got to "upgrade" from a cross-beya loan (Sekinoto's owned by Iwakiyama) to a more stable one inside his own heya, and Yotsukasa got to pick up the scraps.

That is what I meant by Yotsukasa having lived a charmed life. He has been able to "pick up scraps" to survive for this long on borrowed kabu. That is the reason why it is quite likely that he will also find another kabu to borrow this time. A guy with less wherewithal would have had to relinquish the Onogawa myoseki on demand to the new borrower, Kitazakura.

I should have phrased the above, "Kinkaiyama's change to Inagawa allowed for Yotsukasa to borrow Sekinoto." A lot of politics are involved in these dealings. Sweetheart deals, quid pro quo, obligations, coercion, you name it.

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Jonokuchi:

Kotonishizuka - just got here

This is an embarrassment and potentially a sad story. The kid is from Obanazawa in Yamagata Prefecture, the same hometown as Sadogatake Oyakata. As such, much ado was made when he decided to join the heya a few months ago. "The second coming of Kotonowaka" ran the local headlines.

That isn't all. When the boy graduated from junior high last spring, he got hired by a local agricultural company to work as a farmhand. He showed inordinate strength which impressed his coworkers to the extent that they informed the owner of the company, who happened to be the head of the Sadogatake Koenkai.

Though the kid was lukewarm about sumo and spurned the initial overtures, one thing led to another and he was coaxed into joining ozumo. In October, a large crowd of Obanazawans gathered to give the kid a big send-off. His boss made an impassioned speech about what a great future the kid had and local dignitaries all showed up to tell him how proud they were. Caught up in the emotions of the moment, the new sumosan blurted out to the cheering throng that his goal was to become a yokozuna. (See picture below)

Nishizuka-kun took his shin-deshi test in November and made his debut in mae-zumo in Kyushu Basho, where he was an unimpressive 1-2. Sumo is not that easy even for a kid with his super strength. Heya life must have been unbearable too since he was a no show for the very next basho. "Jeez, they didn't tell me it was going to be like this."

There is no way he can go home now. It would be a loss of face for everyone involved. The rumor is that he found a job in Tokyo and will try to make a go of it. A middle school high grad in the big city during an economic slump. Good luck, kid.

img_2009102800385.jpg

Edited by madorosumaru

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BTW, does anyone know what the longest recorded banzuke-gai stint was?

Kyokuoyama is record holder with 22 consecutive Banzuke-gai 1988.03 - 1991.09 while Shinzan is record holder for returnee with 14 consecutive Banzuke-gai 1957.09 - 1959.11 followed by 9 more years in ozumo reaching Juryo rank.

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Shinzan is record holder for returnee with 14 consecutive Banzuke-gai 1957.09 - 1959.11 followed by 9 more years in ozumo reaching Juryo rank.

You know, Shinzan's case is looking more like a few others in that he rather left the Kyokai to re-enter Ozumo at a later date (not possible anymore I think). I don't have confirmation here though but probably will change the records (changing Banzuke-gai to Out of Kyokai).

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Just a post to quell the Kitazakura intai debate!

He will be in Osaka and he will be competing and ganbarizing... this comes straight from the horse's mouth!!!

He is fine, he's genki & he is very unhappy with losing but right now there is no reason to retire, after Osaka then we'll see!

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Both were born in 1978, have won a Makushita and a Sandanme Yusho each, and at Msw1, which happened to be their highest rank so far, they marked a 3-4 record, with at least one shot at a winning-record. One is Shishio and the other one is still active, who is he ? (without searching, if you don't mind)

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Got it in two. First guess was made without even looking at the banzuke and I ended up picking a guy who retired in Aki, oops. (And topped out at Ms2 and had no yusho. And is two years older. Could've been worse, I suppose.)

There's somebody on the forum who should be able to get it right immediately. Nice catch, BTW. (Detective...)

Edited by Asashosakari

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Add Asashoryu to that list. Biggest retirement in a long time.

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Who'd have thought that Chiyotaikai and Asashoryu would retire almost simultaneously, and that Kaio (!!) would have lasted longer than Asashoryu. and Chiyotaikai for that matter too.

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Technically, Asashoryu's intai basho will be in March, since he will still be listed on the banzuke. Is that right?

You know I was just wondering that. I don't have the answer, sorry. Isn't February 4 too early to have drawn up the new banzuke though?

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