Why does Hakuho "suck" in playoffs?

[Kintamayama 45,484]

As to myself, I am not easily offended by sumo. Particularly not by who will get the Makuuchi yusho.

Ok, I understand. I just don't believe someone like Asashouryuu would give up a zensho yusho and any chance to go for any record to make him even more Dai-Yokozuna, just to make things interesting for the fans. No way.

[Kozaru 0]

What's the point of staying on forever despite all the pain and redicule told that you were no better than 8-7 ozeki time and time again? Both Kaio and Chiyotaikai have been at it long enough and their tenure as Kyokai member has been assured long ago. Why keep spending more money so they can barely hang on? What is the reason? They could have retired several years ago and their status wouldn't have changed that much if they are now working as oyakata now.

What are they waiting for? A miracle, another yusho by yaocho? If they can get all the yaocho bout, why not splurge and go for it all the way and buy the yusho and get it over with? So many whys and no explanations.

Why are some people criminals and some aren't? Why do some people cheat on their spouses and some don't? Why do some guys throw bouts and others don't? Are you really waiting for a "theory of everything"?

And (hopefully) for the last time, I am not saying that any money is changing hands at all. We've been over this before. If you go over to the other thread, you'll see that. I even pointed it out again today. With all of your questions, you're just confirming my suspicions that you aren't actually paying attention to my argument. That's why you didn't know that they don't all occur on Day 15.

As for the reason they might want to continue..... they like sumo? They want records? Again, if I could explain these things, I'd be a criminal psychologist. And if anybody could explain them perfectly, we might not have such a thing as criminals anymore. (Please don't say I'm accusing the Ozeki of being criminals. The connection should be obvious, though.) Your demands for universal explanations of the behaviour of people are not within reason. You choose to continue to deny, which you can do forever.

The way the goalposts keep moving, I'm going to admit that this is a lost cause, and you're not going to accept it. Anyway, if you do choose to continue the discussion, let's do it over in the Ozeki thread. I'd really like to hear your impression of yesterday's ultra-dramatic match-up between Kaio and Kotomitsuki, and how you were wondering who would win. But deep down, I think you knew.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Kozaru

[Kozaru 0]

Why are some people criminals and some aren't?

They get caught

Why do some people cheat on their spouses and some don't?

Some don't?

Gotta love the Irish. :)

[ilovesumo 12]

I dont know anything but...

Shoryu needed a Yusho badly desu ne...

I like Makushita best, who needs sekitori anyway.

[_the_mind_ 0]

if hakuho and Asa do actually have the mutual distain that gets talked about, the question has to be asked: why would hakuho throw a bout for someone he doesnt like? im doubting "gentlemen’s agreements" hold up between people who dont like each other.

therein is the main problem with all the talk about yaoucho, the people involved have to WANT to lose to the other. in this case, i find it less then likely that hakuho would take a dive for Asa, and i find it down right impossible that Asa would do the same for him if the roles were reversed.

especially since that 84-6 record is still on the table by "letting" hakuho win. Asa is willing to lose one of his personal records so that hakuho can win on day 15? uh, no. (as the concept here is that Asa lost to him on purpose in the regular bout, and hakuho lost on purpose in the playoff)

both of these guys want the yusho way more then what they get for throwing a match.

Edited September 28, 2009 by _the_mind_

[Kozaru 0]

if hakuho and Asa do actually have the mutual distain that gets talked about, the question has to be asked: why would hakuho throw a bought for someone he doesnt like? im doubting "gentlemens agreements" hold up between people who dont like eachother.

therein is the main problem with all the talk about yaoucho, the people involved have to WANT to lose to the other. in this case, i find it less then likely that hakuho would take a dive for Asa, and i find it down right impossible that Asa would do the same for him if the roles were reversed.

especially since that 86-5 record is still on the table by "letting" hakuho win. Asa is willing to lose one of his personal records so that hakuho can win on day 15? uh, no. (as the concept here is that Asa lost to him on purpose in the regular bought, and hakuho lost on purpose in the playoff)

both of these guys want the yusho way more then what they get for throwing a match.

I agree with your opinion, but not with your math.

[wanderer 159]

My take on the yusho:

Both came to the senshakiryu battled and bruised, but hungry for the yusho.

Hakuho is displaying awesome sumo this year but got only 2 yusho.

Asashoryu is getting sidelined as an underdog, which has never been the case in his lifetime.

Hon basho bout: Asashoryu hasn't tested Hakuho's wrath quite a while, so gets taken by his awesome power in suprise, wakes up.

Ketteisen: Asashoryu, as a genius, uses his tactical brilliance and neutralizes Hakuho's offense. Watch their bout until their landing on the dohyo. I've never seen so much struggle during a throw. They both land a good meter and half away from their take off position.

So, none of them wanted to loose, and fought to the last moment. I don't think there was any kind of yacho or like that.

PS: This is a typical display in mongolian wrestling. Take it easy.

[_the_mind_ 0]

if hakuho and Asa do actually have the mutual distain that gets talked about, the question has to be asked: why would hakuho throw a bought for someone he doesnt like? im doubting "gentlemens agreements" hold up between people who dont like eachother.

therein is the main problem with all the talk about yaoucho, the people involved have to WANT to lose to the other. in this case, i find it less then likely that hakuho would take a dive for Asa, and i find it down right impossible that Asa would do the same for him if the roles were reversed.

especially since that 86-5 record is still on the table by "letting" hakuho win. Asa is willing to lose one of his personal records so that hakuho can win on day 15? uh, no. (as the concept here is that Asa lost to him on purpose in the regular bought, and hakuho lost on purpose in the playoff)

both of these guys want the yusho way more then what they get for throwing a match.

I agree with your opinion, but not with your math.

84-6, my apologies, i was in mid post and couldnt look up what the number was

my spelling isnt so hot either

Edited September 28, 2009 by _the_mind_

[Kimyouzan 2]

I think one of the reasons the Yoks win so much is cause they summon all their strength to win their bouts. Since Asa was thrown down very fast and didn't have a chance since the tachiai, he didn't get as much of a workout as Hakuho in the hon wari, so he was more jazzed for the kettei-sen.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Kimyouzan

[Asashosakari 19,593]

Hon basho bout: Asashoryu hasn't tested Hakuho's wrath quite a while, so gets taken by his awesome power in suprise, wakes up.

Ketteisen: Asashoryu, as a genius, uses his tactical brilliance and neutralizes Hakuho's offense. Watch their bout until their landing on the dohyo. I've never seen so much struggle during a throw. They both land a good meter and half away from their take off position.

So, none of them wanted to loose, and fought to the last moment. I don't think there was any kind of yacho or like that.

The neat thing about the two bouts was that each guy won with the exact type of offensive plan that had served the other guy during the first 14 days.