Day 15 results, yusho and sansho

[Guest Hamanoyama]

My sanyaku guess (without investigations) is:

Tosanoumi...S...Tamanoshima

Toki........K...Tochinonada

............K...Wakanosato

Actually I don't agree with Feginowaka.

It seems to be a realistic constellation, but I like this one (same as predicted by jiri press):

Tosanoumi.....s...Tamanoshima

Toki................k...Tochinonada

Wakanosato..M1

[Asashosakari 17,280]

Tosanoumi...S...Tamanoshima

Toki........K...Tochinonada

............K...Wakanosato

I totally agree with Feginowaka.

History has learned that Tochinonada is going to be promoted over Wakanosato.

I disagree, as they did the exact opposite earlier this year:

2003.05: Sw Dejima 7-8, M01e Tochinonada 8-7

--> 2003.07: Ke Dejima, Kw Tochinonada

Wakanosato is ranked even higher than Dejima was, so in a 3-komusubi situation, it stands to reason that he should end up ahead of Tochinonada. This doesn't rule out the possibility of Sato dropping all the way to M01e, naturally.

Edited November 25, 2003 by Asashosakari

[Doitsuyama 1,157]

[pre]

K2

[Kashunowaka 281]

No, no... you are all wrong.

7/84 Asahifuji M2W 8-7, Daijuyama M4E 9-6 (1

[Asashosakari 17,280]

Now I understand that those haridashi rikishi should be balanced.

Yes, that has been my understanding as well, which makes those inconsistencies all the more puzzling. Thanks for trying to shed a bit of light on the whole mess. (Second prize...)

To echo Yubi-zeki, this could be a very interesting GTB indeed...

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

No. There are only three banzuke rules.

1) Kachikoshi ensures you won't be demoted. It doesn't guarantee promotion.

2) Makekoshi ensures you won't be promoted. It doesn't guarantee demotion.

3) Rikishi with equal records will keep their mutual order.

Thank you for the subtle but important clarification, Kotoseiya-zeki.

Welcome to the forum, Vincentoryu-zeki. If you could please quote when replying to others rathey than just pasting their text, that would be great (First prize...)

I will not venture a banzuke guess, too much of a magic cloud for me (Second prize...)

[Asashosakari 17,280]

I will not venture a banzuke guess, too much of a magic cloud for me (Second prize...)

You mean this thread hasn't convinced you yet that it's just as much of a magic cloud for the rest of us this time around, too? (First prize...)

[Manekineko 200]

Actually, the state of this thread so far has encouraged me to try GTB once again... with so many possibilities, my pick can't possibly be too awful (like it was last time). Also, I feel it is my duty as Sumoforum-ichimon member to show my support to ichimon-games, and GTB is the one I've been avoiding for far too long! Look out the bottom of GTB Banzuke, here I come! (Second prize...)

Now I just have to wait for Zenji-zeki to start wheedling me again to play ST... (First prize...)

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

The two highest debutants:

Miyabiyama 1/99 J1W 14-1Y -> 3/99 M7E 9-6

Tosanoumi 5/95 J1E 14-1Y -> 7/95 M7W 7-8

But an even higher promotion was:

Kotomitsuki 9/00 J4E 14-1Y -> 11/00 M9W 13-2J

That was not Mickey's juryo debut, but a re-promotion.

So normally I would guess that Kokkai should end up somewhere between M7 and M10. But with the expansion, I don't know ...  (Second prize...)

There is also:

Daiju 3/70 J1w 14-1Y -> 5/70 M6E 9-6G (first)

Wakamiyama 7/68 J1W 14-1Y -> 9/68 M6W 3-12 (return)

Yoshinohana 5/68 J2E 13-2Y -> 7/68 M7E 8-7 (return)

I think it's most likely Kokkai will end up at M07 or possibly M08 (even with the expansion), but it's quite difficult to say... (First prize...)

Edited November 25, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama

[Kashunowaka 281]

There is also:

Daiju 3/70 J1w 14-1Y -> 5/70 M6E 9-6G (first)

Wakamiyama 7/68 J1W 14-1Y  -> 9/68 M6W 3-12 (return)

Yoshinohana 5/68 J2E 13-2Y  -> 7/68 M7E 8-7 (return)

Thank you for the correction. (Second prize...)

[Kaikitsune Makoto 202]

This thread is a treasure now as I am working on GTB entry. I went through all options and tilted my head few times in wise stance trying to figure out what would be fair and what would be evil. Then I came to this thread guided by some memory synapses hollaring: "Stat gurus discussed this into detail and speculation was overwhelming, go there!" and was more than ever convinced that GTB is cool and people should be fond of GTB!

Now if I would smoke cigars, I would lit one, take some delicious pre-Christmas food on a plate, make a smack smack sound with lips and if I would wear glasses, I would take them off and wipe then clean with soft cloth and possibly blow some ar onto them. Then I would take a look through the window into nightly Finnish mini-blizzard and inhale deeply followed by dipping a feather pen into ink. Then rustling the print-out Kyushu banzuke + results paper and would start writing! Asashoryu, - , Azuma. Taikai, KaioU, Musoyama and so on...

Well food is true and atmosphere calm. Window is transparent as they usually are and even more so after Englishman's work has left its mark on the windows. It is kind of neat to have a trademark of spotlessness and balanced anti-fumy surface along the whole window! Anyways, GTB is cool and without knowing the moods, general benigness, sense of justice and especially emphasis of basho content playing any kind or role in the minds of Men in Black, it is hard to make GTB. Still despite most evidence possibly rebuking the assumption, I dare to claim Nada's basho was stronger than Toki's and that also some reward unconsciencly must be given for two kinboshi and some heavy sumo ie. basho content matter in this insanely option-rich GTB. So in my papers Nada will be higher than Toki. So be it. Tosanoumi and Tamanoshima as sekiwake, Nada and Wakanosato as komusubi and saddened Toki at M1 left hungry for more but if 3 komusubi, then Toki there too of course. Wakanosato could get demoted to M1 if he has caused much frustration with his failure in Aki. It would be megalomanic injustice to the sumo spirit to keep Waka as sekiwake when he was "supposed" to fight for ozeki promotion. Law is literal, banzuke law not. This MUST have some effect. You don't go 7-8 without a good reason if you are a candidate of ozeki promotion. Stick or carrot? Stick in this case. Wakanosato can eat delicious carrots later. They contain betacarotene and are good for the eyes. A-vitamine is important.

We shall see! With the help of A-vitamine also in the dark and in 2 days. Christmas and banzuke release are around the corner!

Good luck people!

[Zenjimoto 39]

Now I just have to wait for Zenji-zeki to start wheedling me again to play ST... (Applauding...)

(Showing respect...) OK, here I go:

:-D

Cheers

Z.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Now if I would smoke cigars, I would lit one (...)

(...)

I dare to claim Nada's basho was stronger than Toki's (...) So in my papers Nada will be higher than Toki. So be it.

(...)

It would be megalomanic injustice to the sumo spirit to keep Waka as sekiwake when he was "supposed" to fight for ozeki promotion.

(...)

Law is literal, banzuke law not. This MUST have some effect.

No woulds to if sentences!

Toki 9-6 @ M2E, Nada 8-7 @ M1E. Nada lower! And I'm the Grand Vizier of the Nada Appreciation Society!

Supposed? Said who? Even if he did, he failed and will get duly demoted to SW. It makes the most sense (or the least of nonsense).

Law is not literal. Law is interpretation. Law is concoction. Law is indoctrination. Law is Black Magic! Three banzuke rules are literal or can someone point out an exception?

[Mark Buckton 1]

No woulds to if sentences!

As boring as being a linguist / writer is at times - the above is not exactly true but I'll leave that to you all to figure out.

ANR :-D

[Kashunowaka 281]

No woulds to if sentences!

It took me a while to figure out that sentence. (Clapping wildly...)

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

(...) the above is not exactly true but I'll leave that to you all to figure out.

Well, it's a good enough rule of thumb for a non-native like me who was always taught that ifs and woulds do not mix. They might've told the exceptions as well but I guess I was too dumb to learn them. (Clapping wildly...)

[Mark Buckton 1]

(...) the above is not exactly true but I'll leave that to you all to figure out.

Well, it's a good enough rule of thumb for a non-native like me who was always taught that ifs and woulds do not mix. They might've told the exceptions as well but I guess I was too dumb to learn them. (Clapping wildly...)

Koto-san,

your post brought it back to me that you aren't native in English - a fact very easy to forget with people from (esp) Scandinavia, Holland and Scotland (joke). Having worked briefly in all of the main Scandinavian nations (Fin / Nor / Swe / Icel and Dan) I was continually shamed to at that time know no other language as they knew mine. People in Liverpool (UK) don't speak as well as Scandinavians!!

'Rules' - in English are often quoted by teachers around the world to avoid difficult questions to which they either don't know the answer or know enough to know non-native users would rarely, if ever use them. (usually the first).

Generally speaking, Usually, Mostly, More often than not etc etc etc would be better terms used by those 'senseis' to avoid such future difficulties for their charges.

Still, your teacher was undoubtedly a decent person having read your many posts.

ANR

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

About 1737th time I correct people about this. Finland doesn't belong to Scandinavia. Yes, nitpicking and digressing... (Clapping wildly...) This was originally about something related to sumo. Sorry...

[Kaikitsune Makoto 202]

Tosanoumi and Tamanoshima as sekiwake

Tochinonada and Wakanosato as komusubi.

No comment on Toki at all....my speculation would have been 100% correct and I was dumb enought to promote Toki after all!!!! So very annoying! So very annoying!!!!!

It is not sure yet though that Toki isn't komusubi too but Yomiuri suggests so..