2nd komusubi slot

[Andreas 0]

Kakuryu and Kisenosato will most likely get the sekiwake slots. Komusubi east would be Kyokutenho, some banzuke luck for an 8-7 maegashira 2.

But who will get the Komusubi west? No more Kachikoshi in the Joi, and both sekiwakes were clearly makekoshi.

candidates:

Goeido: SW 6-9

Aran: M4 8-7

Kotoshogiku: M6 10-5

I wouldnt like to see Aran as Komusubi, he had no Sanyaku opponents and only barely made kachikoshi.

[Peterao 3]

Doesn't feel right to keep a sekiwake in sanyaku with six wins. Kotoshogiku's 10-5 seems more impressive than Aran's 8-7, but I think that there's a compelling argument to be made for either of them.

My gut feeling is that Kotoshogiku gets the nod, while Aran is M1E and Goeido is M1W.

[Asashosakari 16,996]

I suppose everything's possible after the Tochiozan/Homasho decision last time, but if it's anybody other than Kotoshogiku (by rights even as the K1e) I'll probably give up trying to understand the banzuke makers altogether.

[Takamizawa 0]

It's gotta be the Giku :-P

[Sokkenaiyama 64]

Kotoshogiku no doubt. Aran's 8-7 just isn't enough this time, but without Kotoshogiku they'd have had to give it to him.

[Asashosakari 16,996]

On a vaguely related subject - should we congratulate the banzuke committee for that ridiculously deep Kisenosato demotion from last time, after all? Seems to have worked out pretty well somehow, whether by firing him up mentally or by simply moving him out of the joi-jin shooting range...

[Tikozan 4]

I think Kotoshogiku.

[Kozaru 0]

I was so hoping it would go to Iwakiyama. Damn Aran and Kyokutenho for pulling out those KKs!

[Chisaiyama 11]

According to Doitsuyama's fabulous DB the last time a M6E with a 10-5 record made it to Sanyaku was Kyushu '87. As wrong as it feels I'm thinking the Komosubis this time will be Kyokutenho & Aran in that order.

[Randomitsuki 2,548]

According to Doitsuyama's fabulous DB the last time a M6E with a 10-5 record made it to Sanyaku was Kyushu '87. As wrong as it feels I'm thinking the Komosubis this time will be Kyokutenho & Aran in that order.

Sure, but if you search for M7E instead of M6E, you'll find a komusubi example from the year 2000. What I am trying to say here is that historical precedents are pretty much useless in the way you are looking at them. It always depends on the banzuke problematics. If there is a huge jam, or if there is business as usual, a 10-5 from M6e won't get you into sanyaku. However, if there is a huge hole in the banzuke, rikishi can be easily promoted to komusubi from M6.

There is relatively clear historical evidence that Kotoshogiku should get the Komusubi spot, but since I am a competitive guy and know way too few banzuke making secrets to share them, I won't tell you how I found out. (Holiday feeling...)

Edited May 25, 2009 by Randomitsuki

[Doitsuyama 1,156]

According to Doitsuyama's fabulous DB the last time a M6E with a 10-5 record made it to Sanyaku was Kyushu '87. As wrong as it feels I'm thinking the Komosubis this time will be Kyokutenho & Aran in that order.

Now that is an excellent example of doing a way, way too limited search and soundly announcing conclusions in a pseudo-scientific manner.

Don't you think that the least you could have done is including all ranks LOWER than M6e as well? And also including 8 and 9 wins instead of limiting the search to 10 wins? Then you get no less than 13 more examples since your stated one.

[Asashosakari 16,996]

Don't you think that the least you could have done is including all ranks LOWER than M6e as well? And also including 8 and 9 wins instead of limiting the search to 10 wins? Then you get no less than 13 more examples since your stated one.

And the most recent case involved ex-ozeki Takanonami, so it is now clear and obvious that the komusubi spot will in fact be going to Miyabiyama.

Edited May 25, 2009 by Asashosakari

[skycruiser 0]

Kotoshogiku no doubt. Aran's 8-7 just isn't enough this time, but without Kotoshogiku they'd have had to give it to him.

I'll go with Kotoshogiku as well.

As for Aran, not this time, not next time! He is going to get his butt kicked next basho, fighting upper rankers.

His sumo sucks!

[Peterao 3]

According to Doitsuyama's fabulous DB the last time a M6E with a 10-5 record made it to Sanyaku was Kyushu '87. As wrong as it feels I'm thinking the Komosubis this time will be Kyokutenho & Aran in that order.

The question is moot. Painstaking research shows that Aran always makes kachikoshi when ranked higher than M5, so he's bound to make sekiwake eventually.

[Takamizawa 0]

I'll go with Kotoshogiku as well.

As for Aran, not this time, not next time! He is going to get his butt kicked next basho, fighting upper rankers.

His sumo sucks!

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but I do see a lot of potential with Aran as well. He's got a good build and a lot of strength, but his tactics and technique leave a lot to be desire certainly. Give him a year or two to get smarter (Sign of disapproval...) . His sumo already looks significantly better from his makuuchi debut basho. The next basho should be a good experience for him, despite the guaranteed asskicking he will receive heh.

[skycruiser 0]

I'll go with Kotoshogiku as well.

As for Aran, not this time, not next time! He is going to get his butt kicked next basho, fighting upper rankers.

His sumo sucks!

I'm not disagreeing with you at all, but I do see a lot of potential with Aran as well. He's got a good build and a lot of strength, but his tactics and technique leave a lot to be desire certainly. Give him a year or two to get smarter (Sign of disapproval...) . His sumo already looks significantly better from his makuuchi debut basho. The next basho should be a good experience for him, despite the guaranteed asskicking he will receive heh.

Regarding Aran's experience, he started Maezumo just a couple years ago (Jan 07). So I should cut him some slack.

The jury is still out!

[kaiguma 0]

My memory tells me it is not uncommon for a 6-9 from Sekiwake to result in demotion to Komusubi, if and only if there is not an obvious "as-of-right" promotion candidate...

I believe Kotoshogiku once was gifted with exactly such a soft demotion.

[Gusoyama 64]

My memory tells me it is not uncommon for a 6-9 from Sekiwake to result in demotion to Komusubi, if and only if there is not an obvious "as-of-right" promotion candidate...

I believe Kotoshogiku once was gifted with exactly such a soft demotion.

I thought I remembered something like that as well, but I was wrong, too.

[Chisaiyama 11]

I thought I remembered something like that as well, but I was wrong, too.

[/td] 1 2 >

Rikishi Date Rank Record Date Rank Record

Genjiyama 1819.03 S1e 6-2-1-1a 1819.11 K1e 5-2-1-2o

Washigahama 1862.03 S1w 6-2-2 1862.11 K1w 5-2-3

Washigahama 1865.02 S1w 6-0-2-1d-1a 1865.11 K1w 5-1-3

Omatoi 1872.11 S1e 6-2-1-1d 1873.04 K1e 5-3-2

Onaruto 1885.01 S1e 6-2-1-1d 1885.05 K1e 5-2-1-2d

Umenotani 1899.05 S1w 6-2-1-1d 1900.01 K1w 5-2-1-2d

Dewagatake 1926.01 S1w 6-5 1926.05 K2eHD 3-3-5

Dewagatake 1928.01 S1e 6-5 1928.03 K1w 6-5

Mitsuneyama 1952.09 S1e 6-9 1953.01 K2wHD 10-5

In those 1800's examples you cite the basho was obviously 10 day, in the 1920's that you cited the bashos were apparently 11 days so in each of those examples the rikishi all had 6 wins (per your search requirements) so in that case that should have been Kachi-Koshi so do you or anybody in the forum know why they would have been demoted?

Note to more proficient users of BBS code than my humble self: Is there a way of creating a table without getting all the extra blank lines above it?

Edited June 2, 2009 by Chisaiyama

[kaiguma 0]

My memory tells me it is not uncommon for a 6-9 from Sekiwake to result in demotion to Komusubi, if and only if there is not an obvious "as-of-right" promotion candidate...

I believe Kotoshogiku once was gifted with exactly such a soft demotion.

I thought I remembered something like that as well, but I was wrong, too.

thanks for taking the time to query it.

looks like it hasn't occurred post-WWII so highly unlikely to happen now...

[Bealzbob 0]

I thought I remembered something like that as well, but I was wrong, too.

[/td]	1		2	>
Rikishi	Date	Rank	Record	Date	Rank	Record
Genjiyama	1819.03	S1e	6-2-1-1a	1819.11	K1e	5-2-1-2o
Washigahama	1862.03	S1w	6-2-2	1862.11	K1w	5-2-3
Washigahama	1865.02	S1w	6-0-2-1d-1a	1865.11	K1w	5-1-3
Omatoi	1872.11	S1e	6-2-1-1d	1873.04	K1e	5-3-2
Onaruto	1885.01	S1e	6-2-1-1d	1885.05	K1e	5-2-1-2d
Umenotani	1899.05	S1w	6-2-1-1d	1900.01	K1w	5-2-1-2d
Dewagatake	1926.01	S1w	6-5	1926.05	K2eHD	3-3-5
Dewagatake	1928.01	S1e	6-5	1928.03	K1w	6-5
Mitsuneyama	1952.09	S1e	6-9	1953.01	K2wHD	10-5

Note to more proficient users of BBS code than my humble self: Is there a way of creating a table without getting all the extra blank lines above it?

As above. Simply remove the carriage returns that separate each of your table's lines because they get 'discarded' above it and push it downwards. Soz for going off topic but you did ask :)

[Chisaiyama 11]

As above. Simply remove the carriage returns that separate each of your table's lines because they get 'discarded' above it and push it downwards. Soz for going off topic but you did ask :)

Thanks, that's about the only thing I didn't try. I shall file that for future reference. Another forum I belong to uses a different BBS engine and I don't have that problem using tables there.

[Asojima 2,839]

As above. Simply remove the carriage returns that separate each of your table's lines because they get 'discarded' above it and push it downwards. Soz for going off topic but you did ask :)

If you are using Notepad to build your table, you can insert 4 or 5 tabs between the /tr and the tr to force a line wrap for readability. The tabs are ignored by SF. They cannot be added after you paste to the SF editor.

Edited June 4, 2009 by Asojima

[Asashosakari 16,996]

And option 3, change the posting format from "HTML Off" to "Raw Linebreak Mode" which simply ignores all linebreaks as though it was HTML code. Downside: You'll have to format the text parts of that post with <p> and <br> tags to get paragraphs breaks in there. Definitely faster than removing a couple hundred linebreaks for large tables though. (Or if you expect to edit those tables later, e.g. here, and you don't want to turn them into unworkable gibberish by removing the breaks.)