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Jejima

Ozeki Back-Scratchers' Club

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Did I just read Kintamayama complaining about a henka? Must be seeing things...

No, complaining about the "set-up". Not even Kotomitsuki would REALLY fall for that blatant a henka. Lousy production value.

But if it is premeditated, why resort to a lousy henka then? Mitsuki could just make for a good target, getting pummeled and pushed out / pulled down, following the usual Taikai procedure.

Because Taikai can hardly stand, and might even lose by mistake like he did yesterday to Osh*.. This is the safest arrangement, after yesterday's debacle.

*If you watch yesterday's bout, you can see the totally amazed face of Osh after Taikai goes down.

Edited by Kintamayama

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Did I just read Kintamayama complaining about a henka? Must be seeing things...

No, complaining about the "set-up". Not even Kotomitsuki would REALLY fall for that blatant a henka. Lousy production value.

But if it is premeditated, why resort to a lousy henka then? Mitsuki could just make for a good target, getting pummeled and pushed out / pulled down, following the usual Taikai procedure.

Because Taikai can hardly stand, and might even lose by mistake like he did yesterday to Osh*.. This is the safest arrangement, after yesterday's debacle.

*If you watch yesterday's bout, you can see the totally amazed face of Osh after Taikai goes down.

Ok, must be a good conspiracy theory then, because you seemingly can integrate any result after it happened.

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Did I just read Kintamayama complaining about a henka? Must be seeing things...

No, complaining about the "set-up". Not even Kotomitsuki would REALLY fall for that blatant a henka. Lousy production value.

But if it is premeditated, why resort to a lousy henka then? Mitsuki could just make for a good target, getting pummeled and pushed out / pulled down, following the usual Taikai procedure.

Because Taikai can hardly stand, and might even lose by mistake like he did yesterday to Osh*.. This is the safest arrangement, after yesterday's debacle.

*If you watch yesterday's bout, you can see the totally amazed face of Osh after Taikai goes down.

Ok, must be a good conspiracy theory then, because you seemingly can integrate any result after it happened.

That's the whole point, sir. Chiyotaikai will get his KK easily. We and the rest of the world know he's not capable of doing that physically. But he will, as U will not beat him. The only way he may not do it is if he has Baruto on Senshuraku. But he'll get Kisenosato.

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The only way he may not do it is if he has Baruto on Senshuraku. But he'll get Kisenosato.

Be welcome to place a bet. :-)

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Ah, this thread remains fresh. I haven't made up my mind about the OBSC but I tend to believe it's real, if explainable by human nature rather than hushed conspiracies. People have been blaming Taikai and Kaiou but let's face it, it's the whole ozeki demotion system (coupled by the fact that the rank is not easily attainable and the brutal 6 tournament year at the toughest level in the game leads to very real injuries).

The NSK needs to come up with a new system because it *is* a club -unless you're on your way to yokozuna. The rikishi that peak at the ozeki rank will want to remain there as long as possible, their salaries are pretty close anyway, minus the responsibilities.

I'm not saying it's a club with established rules as this thread, playfully, began; but while sekiwake and komusubi always wanna do outdo eachother, ozeki are almost brothers in arms. How many people voted Chiyotaikai high up on their Sumo Game's picks today? And tomorrow vs Kaiou? Yah, and it's obvious the guy can hardly stand.

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Ah, this thread remains fresh. I haven't made up my mind about the OBSC but I tend to believe it's real, if explainable by human nature rather than hushed conspiracies. People have been blaming Taikai and Kaiou but let's face it, it's the whole ozeki demotion system (coupled by the fact that the rank is not easily attainable and the brutal 6 tournament year at the toughest level in the game leads to very real injuries).

The NSK needs to come up with a new system because it *is* a club -unless you're on your way to yokozuna. The rikishi that peak at the ozeki rank will want to remain there as long as possible, their salaries are pretty close anyway, minus the responsibilities.

I'm not saying it's a club with established rules as this thread, playfully, began; but while sekiwake and komusubi always wanna do outdo eachother, ozeki are almost brothers in arms. How many people voted Chiyotaikai high up on their Sumo Game's picks today? And tomorrow vs Kaiou? Yah, and it's obvious the guy can hardly stand.

Can we pin this somewhere? Perfect analysis.

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The only way he may not do it is if he has Baruto on Senshuraku. But he'll get Kisenosato.

Be welcome to place a bet. :-)

Well, seeing as it seems no one thinks Kise will meet Taikai, I guess I'm totally wrong then.

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Well, seeing as it seems no one thinks Kise will meet Taikai, I guess I'm totally wrong then.

I guess that's because there's no obvious reason why they should skip the Baruto matchup.

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Taikai should beat Baruto at 4-9 this basho and with a good overall record against him. Baruto is in very bad shape himself so it won't look much like a conspiracy. It would look much more suspect for Taikai to beat Kisenosato this basho. Kaiou appears in bad form as well so not that much of a stretch for him to lose. Kaiou has been cruising the last few matches himself, trying to avoid injury I'm sure...

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Taikai should beat Baruto at 4-9 this basho and with a good overall record against him. Baruto is in very bad shape himself so it won't look much like a conspiracy.

Taikai in his present state couldn't move Baruto if his life depended on it. Baruto just has to walk him out, his own shape notwithstanding. Baruto is not a member of the Ozeki clique (yet?). He's our last hope for the "truth".

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Kaiou appears in bad form as well

Wait, what?

You have been watching the complete lack of opposition Kaio has provided this week, right?

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You have been watching the complete lack of opposition Kaio has provided this week, right?

Kachikoshi cruise control != bad form. Kaio had looked better than he has in at least a year and a half on the way to 8-2, what he's doing now is hardly an indication of good or bad form.

And I'm saying that as somebody who just a few weeks ago argued quite loudly that it's time for Kaio to recognize the signs and hang 'em up. Crow time! As I've said before (in regards to Chiyotaikai back then), I'm perfectly okay with an ozeki who smashes the lower-ranked opposition and then falls apart when facing the other top-rankers, all I'd prefer is if Kaio wasn't quite so blatant about the latter part.

Edited by Asashosakari

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You have been watching the complete lack of opposition Kaio has provided this week, right?

Kachikoshi cruise control != bad form. Kaio had looked better than he has in at least a year and a half on the way to 8-2, what he's doing now is hardly an indication of good or bad form.

And I'm saying that as somebody who just a few weeks ago argued quite loudly that it's time for Kaio to recognize the signs and hang 'em up. Crow time! As I've said before (in regards to Chiyotaikai back then), I'm perfectly okay with an ozeki who smashes the lower-ranked opposition and then falls apart when facing the other top-rankers, all I'd prefer is if Kaio wasn't quite so blatant about the latter part.

This is what I mean. What I'm referring to as his 'bad form' is the fact that other than the "beep beep beep" sound you hear when a truck is backing up, it is completely obvious what gear he is driving in after he gets his KK: reverse, nice and easy. At least Taikai looks like he's trying.

Sadly, Harumafuji (since getting over the curse of the silver mawashi) is the only ozeki worth the rank of "great barrier" at the moment, IMO.

Will be interesting to see how people predict, in the games, a Taikai/Baruto senshuraku torikumi.

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Sadly, Harumafuji (since getting over the curse of the silver mawashi) is the only ozeki worth the rank of "great barrier" at the moment, IMO.

And that's where I disagree. 7-1 against the lower ranks (plus 1-1 against ozeki when it still mattered) is perfectly acceptable "great barrier" sumo, even accounting for the fact that it's exactly what allows Kaio to cruise now in the first place. The only viable alternative, of course, is that he goes something like 5-3 (5-5 with early accounting for the yokozuna bouts) and then has to call in favours, and we all know how much people get up in arms when that happens. I'd rather not put Kaio et al. into a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" trap.

On the German forum somebody was already complaining that the sekiwake to M3 guys are doing so badly this basho, which is the type of thing that makes me wonder if some people don't realize that you can't have both the ozekis and the joi guys doing well at the same time, at least not nowadays where almost everybody in the top 16 is from different stables.

Edited by Asashosakari

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You have been watching the complete lack of opposition Kaio has provided this week, right?

Kachikoshi cruise control != bad form. Kaio had looked better than he has in at least a year and a half on the way to 8-2, what he's doing now is hardly an indication of good or bad form.

It's seems that Kaio have a problem with his right leg (knee ?) since his fight against Tochiozan

mrt0905171934002-p2.jpg

This is why he is not in good form since a few days

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This is why he is not in good form since a few days

very entertaining when some users are still trying to make serious comments about this whole ozeki-scheme.... (I am not worthy...) (I am not worthy...) (Clapping wildly...)

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It would be hard to argue that backs weren't scratched in today's Kaio Taikai bout. Taikai's recently ineffective tsuppari so dominant? Kaio could have tried to make his loss a little more convincing. Ho hum.

Hadn't even bothered to check yet - so he's up against reeling Baruto this time who won't get much more hurt from one more loss (okay he's NOT an ozeki, but..). Taikai's demotion avoidance is already set in stone. Booooring. Would love to be proved wrong tomorrow. Not that I dislike Taikai or anything.

Edited by Asanomeshi

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If Harumafuji wins tomorrow, how about a new conspiracy theory - the Yokozuna back-scratchers' club?

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If Harumafuji wins tomorrow, how about a new conspiracy theory - the Yokozuna back-scratchers' club?
We all know how strategically important it can be to play a round of golf with your business partners once in a while.

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Well, we get the Chiyotaikai vs Baruto matchup that everybody but one person expected.

For Baruto, there's probably not a great deal of difference between 5-10 and 4-11, as either will drop him out of sanyaku, yet will afford him a decent shot at returning after a kachikoshi next basho. For Chiyotaikai, of course, there's a great deal of difference between 7-8 and 8-7. So I think Taikai will ultimately "want it more" tomorrow.

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And personally, I would like to ask everyone, what is the problem with the "Ozeki Back Scratchers" club anyway? It's certainly not unique to sumo...look to cycling and how the pelaton decides things, and how top ranking people help each other out.

It takes quite a lot of effort to become an ozeki, so I have no problem with the "club members" doing their best to assist each other.

Edited by Peterao

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And personally, I would like to ask everyone, what is the problem with the "Ozeki Back Scratchers" club anyway? It's certainly not unique to sumo...look to cycling and how the pelaton decides things, and how top ranking people help each other out.

It takes quite a lot of effort to become an ozeki, so I have no problem with the "club members" doing their best to assist each other.

Er... well, because it is cheating? Because it is pretending? Because is a sham sold as real competition? I mean, if match fixing is alright, why limit one's acceptance of it to ozeki? Everyone in makuuchi worked bloody hard to get there too, so I guess they can all swap kachi koshi and we'll end up with a division of septugenarians.

Edited by James H

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