Ama vs. Hakuho

[Jejima 1,313]

Both Kotomitsuki and Miyabiyama said rather pointedly during this basho they were taking this basho very personally to do well, not just only for themselves but also for their wife.

They share the same wife?

At home with Mickey and the Miyabiflobmonster....

:-P

Edited November 21, 2008 by Jejima

[01010101 0]

Fueling the fire: Kotomitsuki sandbagged to Chiyotaikai bigtime.

what's new! Kotooshu got a green light.

[Kintamayama 44,345]

Some people are actually taking what I say at face value. It doesn't matter much to anyone, but it did help some of them in sumo gaming, and it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

Yup-in the end, sumo gaming is the important thing-much more important than facts or life itself.. And fuzzy inside is excellent. I haven't felt fuzzy inside for a long time.

[paolo 0]

Some people are actually taking what I say at face value. It doesn't matter much to anyone, but it did help some of them in sumo gaming, and it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling inside.

Sorry about that, Sokkenaiyama. But if you reread your post you will notice it was not exactly easy for me to understand the underground humour ...

[Sokkenaiyama 76]

Mr. D, I can't stop any of the yaocho in sumo, but I can win more at the sumo games using my paranoid yaocho forecasts. And when did I say sumo gaming was more important than real life?

P.S. Paolo, I have no idea what you couldn't understand from my post. Can you point it out?

[Naganoyama 5,841]

Is it possible to split this thread into 2 ?

- general discussion of Ama's ozeki run

- speculation over yaocho

[Asashosakari 18,783]

Is it possible to split this thread into 2 ?

- general discussion of Ama's ozeki run

- speculation over yaocho

Perhaps the yaocho parts could be spliced into this thread.

[Kintamayama 44,345]

And when did I say sumo gaming was more important than real life?

But I did.

[Randomitsuki 2,768]

Is it possible to split this thread into 2 ?

- general discussion of Ama's ozeki run

- speculation over yaocho

Perhaps the yaocho parts could be spliced into this thread.

I split the original thread, but decided to create a new one.

[HenryK 38]

Fueling the fire: Kotomitsuki sandbagged to Chiyotaikai bigtime.

No he didn't. He wouldn't give up on a yusho opportunity, and Chiyotaikai still has two more days to get his win, so he wouldn't be the one causing Chiyotaikai's kadoban.

Why am I seriously answering these?? Because there is an off chance that someone may actually be "buying" your goods at face value, sir, and we wouldn't want that..

But Chiyotaikai mustn' beat Hakuho to keep the yusho race interesting, and he mustn' beat Kotooshu as the latter needs two wins for KK.

I agree that this one looks more suspicious than one would like. Wouldn't be the first time that the Ozeki-KK needs all added up on the final days.

Edited November 21, 2008 by HenryK

[Gusoyama 95]

Fueling the fire: Kotomitsuki sandbagged to Chiyotaikai bigtime.

(Sign of disapproval...)

I'd say go peddle your wares at sumotalk, but then you'd just be one voice among many tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists. Seriously, what are you trying to achieve with all this? You must know that yaocho is a dead horse, for the most part.

[Peterao 3]

I think Hakuho threw this one. Ama doesn't have to pay any penny, so it not yaocho. :-S It's only a big favor towards his ozeki promotion from his very good friend. They may even not discussed about doing it.

And about this bout looking real or fake, what's the point. If you are about to throw a bout you just don't try your best. It's easy. Well, its only my view i want to share after reading discussion.

So you think he will give up a yusho for his friend? Really?

I don't wanna get dragged into the yaocho or not discussion (personally, I couldn't care less whether or not it exists. sumo is still sumo regardless), but I fail to see how Hakuho losing, perhaps intentionally, to Ama is "giving up a yusho".

Hakuho is still tied for the yusho lead with Ama, so he still controls his own fate. If they both win three more times, and Ama is already assured his promotion, then we'll see just how willing Hakuho is give up a yusho for his friend.

Thanks guys. So now we have seen that Hakuho is not willing to give up a yusho for his friend. Really.

[Kotoku 0]

Flowers for Hakuho...

[Kozaru 0]

I want to defend Sokkenaiyama here a bit.... I'm not into the technique of sumo, and I won't argue that a guy should have gone for a certain grip when he didn't. All I'll say is that things worked out exactly the way they were 'supposed to' for both the Mongols and the Ozeki, and that I've never seen Hakuho look so eager to get his hand down.

It's that pattern of things always working out for the Ozeki that got me to examine it a little more closely. I made a new thread looking at co-operation between the current Ozeki. I think the results are pretty compelling. Check it out here:

http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16752

[Sashohitowa 6]

Let me be the stupid guy in this situation and go back and ask the simple question to all of you who saw chusha here:

What for was needed for Ama to get this win? With all the complications after that, like that he has to "give back" the ketti-sen, etc.

He would have been promoted also without this win, no?

[Blue_Wolf 24]

But they clashed on day 12 when things weren't this sure. Defeating yokozuna is very much appreciated upon any promotion, i'd say.

[Asashosakari 18,783]

I was going to refrain from saying anything, but I can be just as childish as anybody else, and the thread is titled Ama vs. Hakuho after all: I sure hope those perfectly executed multiple simultaneous grip changes in the kettei-sen made lots of alarm bells ring in the heads of the yaocho-finder squad, though since (for some reason still unfathomable to me) some people seem to believe those miraculously good-looking moves are easier to execute when your opponent is an actual antagonist than when he's cooperating with you, I'm not holding my breath.

For the record, I'm ready and willing to believe that neither bout was fixed (stuff happens; sometimes honest effort looks great, sometimes it doesn't), but I find the relative silence about the second bout compared to the first one to be quite enlightening. More fuel to the fire that people aren't actually trying to recognize yaocho wherever it might exist, they're just trying to complain about bad sumo, and calling bad sumo "yaocho" is the quickest way of doing that these days.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Sashohitowa 6]

But they clashed on day 12 when things weren't this sure. Defeating yokozuna is very much appreciated upon any promotion, i'd say.

Ama would have been promoted to Ozeki also with only 11 wins this basho. Means, even if he has lost against Hakuho, he would need only 2 out of 3 against Kotomitsuki, Miyabiyama and Baruto.

So I just wonder - if you have to make 2 out of the next 4 matches, why would you go "yaoching" against the only one from those four, who has something to lose?

If I was such a cheating dirty rikishi on an ozeki run, I would "go all out" versus the Yokozuna, then win against Miyabiyama, and will try to rig something against Kotomitsuki and Baruto - if needed. It would have been easier and cheaper.

P.S.: I know it sounds stupid - but the idea of buying a match from an Yokozuna that competes for the Yusho seems even more stupid to me.

[Blue_Wolf 24]

I doubt 11 wins was enough. But it's all over now. People all have their own opinions. I don't judge.

[Peeter 15]

Happy ending, as someone mentioned after day 12 possibilityes. For anybody, except Kaio & Asashoryu! Next Basho will be great - 2 yokozunas & 5 ozekis! (Detective...)