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madorosumaru

Wakanoho's yaocho allegations

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this whole deal is ridiculous ... i wonder were do you find the patience to keep on discussing about it.

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...since it's obvious it's what his lawyer wanted him to say as belated damage control...

What damage is there still to be controlled? He turned from victim into liar, brilliant move! That should squish the last doubt about his deportation.

Well, maybe if he now totally swears there is no yaocho, thereby helping the Kyokai win their yaocho case, he might fall into the Kyokai's favor.

Or so he and Bengoshi naively think.

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this whole deal is ridiculous ... i wonder were do you find the patience to keep on discussing about it.

I can only speak for myself, but I have no life, so this is my moment of excitement, and I hope we have many more like these!!

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@ Chiyozakura & Kame

What makes you two believe this time, because you heard what you wanted to believe? This could be another twist in his tale or his last straw.

you dont have to believe it either way, but when someone says it both ways, they have taken themselves off the table is credible. you cant say "i saw something" and "no i didnt see that same thing" then expect either version to be believed.

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Not just the way that the NSK handled Wakanoho, but this current stuff. If he's telling the truth now, it would mean that somebody, possibly inside the sumo world, is trying to get him to make false claims, and he also has a 'news' organisation pushing him, for their own purposes.

And that reflects badly on the Kyokai why exactly?

The answer is that I didn't say it does. I'm annoyed at the NSK for taking marijuana so seriously while the rikishi binge drink in public, but I do understand the laws in Japan work that way. I didn't link the manipulation to the NSK, just to one individual possibly within sumo and to a news organisation, as my above quote says. But that's all assuming Wakanoho is telling the truth now, which I make absolutely no claim about.

Edited by Kozaru

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The Shukan Gendai is reporting that they contacted Wakanoho directly and he was denying he sent the statement to the court.

Wakanoho is maintaining he has never agreed to or given his permission to send such statement. The Gendai is insisting that it was all done by his lawyer Miyata without Wakanoho's consent or knowledge. I guess if this is true then the lawyer will not be representing Wakanoho for long.

Edited by Jonosuke

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But in general, I'm what they call a 'free-thinker'. I know many people on this site really value tradition, but traditions have very little value to me, especially if they suck.

In that case, why do you like sumo? Tradition is what it's about, in good part.

Alcohol is very dangerous (marijuana not so much), and if we could put that genie back in the bottle, we probably would (even though that might mean some of us wouldn't exist ;-) ).

Beer has been made as far back as we can trace civilization. There is no getting the genie back in the bottle. The bottle broke a long time ago. It's a ridiculous idea anyway. People destroy themselves with alcohol, but they destroy themselves any number of other ways too. Getting rid of one method won't help, even if it does satisfy your moralistic, prohibitionary urges. (We tried it in the US. All it did was give more power to the Mafia.)

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In that case, why do you like sumo? Tradition is what it's about, in good part.

I know this discussion doesn't belong in this thread.... but oh well.

People can watch sumo for all kinds of reasons. My reasons are not the traditions. If yours are, that's fine.

As for the alcohol, it isn't a simple moral urge. It's watching a good portion of my family destroy themselves on alcohol, watching the fist-fights, the financial problems, and all kinds of other crap, some of which has just hit the fan in the last few days. Alcohol has an extremely detrimental effect on society, which I think outweighs its main benefit of people liking it. I don't mean to prohibit alcohol now, that's not possible. But if we could have never invented/discovered the stuff in the first place, we'd probably be better off. And I have arguments with Japanese people all the time about this, but fact is, marijuana is less physically harmful and less addictive than alcohol. I knew this from experience and intuition, but the study in The Lancet helped me to quantify and confirm it. I think if society were to make a straight trade, marijuana to replace alcohol, we'd see a net benefit.

Here's the study I'm talking about summarised in the news:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/

So yeah, Wakanoho got booted because of the laws on these substances, but the law doesn't make any sense at all from a scientific point of view. It only makes sense from the standpoint of public policy and practicality. It's an unfortunate mix-up that goes back too far to correct now.

Edited by Kozaru

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The Shukan Gendai is reporting that they contacted Wakanoho directly and he was denying he sent the statement to the court.

Wakanoho is maintaining he has never agreed to or given his permission to send such statement. The Gendai is insisting that it was all done by his lawyer Miyata without Wakanoho's consent or knowledge. I guess if this is true then the lawyer will not be representing Wakanoho for long.

One small problem with that-the lawyer maintains that he attached a DVD showing Wakanohou signing his statement.

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The Shukan Gendai is reporting that they contacted Wakanoho directly and he was denying he sent the statement to the court.

Wakanoho is maintaining he has never agreed to or given his permission to send such statement. The Gendai is insisting that it was all done by his lawyer Miyata without Wakanoho's consent or knowledge. I guess if this is true then the lawyer will not be representing Wakanoho for long.

One small problem with that-the lawyer maintains that he attached a DVD showing Wakanohou signing his statement.

So the lawyer is taking extra precautions to cover his own ass whenever his client is involved. Nice. I'm getting confused, though. If this goes any further, I'm gonna need a diagram!

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@ Chiyozakura & Kame

What makes you two believe this time, because you heard what you wanted to believe? This could be another twist in his tale or his last straw.

I have already discussed this in another thread, not sure which one it was. I found the accusations very hard to believe as they were in my eyes illogical. Kotooshu was supposed to have spent tons of yen to secure his yusho, which earned him way less. Kasuganishiki, a guy who is constantly moving between Makuuchi and Juryo should have more or less blackmailed Wakanoho way before he knew whether the bout would be of importance to delay his next demotion for one month. I don't remember the other accusations now, but they all only included guys that Wakanoho had reason to take revenge on like Tomozuna and Kokonoe Oyakata. If you continue to think his idea of terrifying young rikishi to keep them from advancing the ranks to the end, I cannot see how guys like Hakuho, who is a foreigner from a small heya without huge financial background, should have made it to the top.

I do believe that there are matches lost as a favor, and the current Ozeki do make me feel this way, but Wakanoho's accusations seemed way over the top. As he now denies them they have no ground whatsoever in my eyes, although one of course can not prove that they were wrong.

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Now Wakanoho says his yaocho allegations were all lies. Huh?

Russian sumo wrestler lied about match rigging

That article has the ring of truth. Wakanoho is a fool and a scoundrel, plain and simple. If he wanted to stay in sumo, he should have told the truth, and maybe included a plausible excuse, a sincere apology and a statement about how much he loves sumo and wants another chance.

Marijuana confers no benefit whatsoever to a rikishi except perhaps inspiring the occasional surprising or imaginative technique. Perhaps a rikishi who does nothing else wrong but smoke a joint once in awhile should be given a 2nd chance, put on probation and fined, like they used to do with baseball players in the USA who abused drugs. Heck, Toki got a 2nd chance after his reckless driving resulted in the death of a civilian. Certainly smoking marijuana is not as bad as what Toki did!

Smoking marijuana is hardly an evil act, but accusing innocent rikishi of throwing matches is deplorable and inexcusable. It's defamatory and could hurt the reputations of Kotooshu and Kasuganishiki. For example, what sponsors would choose to employ a rikishi who has been accused of fixing matches? Now that Wakanoho is a self-admitted liar, I'm done with him. Too bad, since his sumo could be inspired and energetic sometimes.

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Heck, Toki got a 2nd chance after his reckless driving resulted in the death of a civilian. Certainly smoking marijuana is not as bad as what Toki did!

Aren't you making things up? There never was the accusation of "reckless driving". The old lady crossed a red light directly ahead of his car, that can happen without reckless driving and he wasn't penalized for that (either by law or kyokai). His problem was driving at all which is not allowed for rikishi. I'd wager to say that this is way more silly than Japanese marijuana laws, and Toki took his penalty (one basho absence) in stride.

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Wakanohou held a press conference today, crying and apologizing to the Kyokai for his lies. "There is no truth in my yaocho allegations. I still love sumo. I'd like to apologize to the Kyokai and the rikishi I accused", he lamented. "I got a phone call from a man saying if I said there was yaocho I'd be back in sumo within a week..I believed him. After the interview I received 2,500,000 yen from a man", he added. Asked who the man was, he answered that he did not want to endanger his or his family's well-being, and refused to name him.

Wakanohou today at the press club:

20081129k0000m050098000p_size5.jpg

Edited by Kintamayama

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Anybody got his phone number? We might be able to conduct the next episode of the sitcom. ;-)

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I do hope he gets work with some MMA group, or even pro-wrasslin'. Maybe Akebono could show him the ropes.

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Asked who the man was, he answered that he did not want to endanger his or his family's well-being, and refused to name him.

The man must be Takeda, the writer of all those Yaocho articles.

Perhaps Wakanoho finally learned what happened to the old Onaruto and his bud and that could happen to him as well.

The first smart move he made in a long time.

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And this is where the double conspiracy might come in handy. Maybe Wakanoho told the truth the first time, or at least some kernel of truth, and now he was paid by influential people to revoke his allegations. That would make Wakanoho a clever guy because he earned twice (once from the Shukan Gendai, once from influential people).

A few years back. Itai allegations. Two Oyakata back him up. A few days later-the two Oyakata die within hours of each other in a hospital.

Eerie violin music. Curtains.

Huh? Ok, I must have totally missed THAT episode... What happened a few years ago?

Also, sadly, I don't think we've heard the last of Wakanoho. I think there's more to come out of all this. I suspect that when he finally does go home, there will be a lot of rubles waiting for him to REALLY spill the beans, fried, re-fried, cooked or baked. I also hear the word "ghost-writer" being used at some point.

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And this is where the double conspiracy might come in handy. Maybe Wakanoho told the truth the first time, or at least some kernel of truth, and now he was paid by influential people to revoke his allegations. That would make Wakanoho a clever guy because he earned twice (once from the Shukan Gendai, once from influential people).

A few years back. Itai allegations. Two Oyakata back him up. A few days later-the two Oyakata die within hours of each other in a hospital.

Eerie violin music. Curtains.

Huh? Ok, I must have totally missed THAT episode... What happened a few years ago?

Also, sadly, I don't think we've heard the last of Wakanoho. I think there's more to come out of all this. I suspect that when he finally does go home, there will be a lot of rubles waiting for him to REALLY spill the beans, fried, re-fried, cooked or baked. I also hear the word "ghost-writer" being used at some point.

he will get a book deal out of all this

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"We are under the impression that Wakanohou and his lawyer's press conference and its content are illogical to say the least. A man phoned him and told him to lie to the Gendai?? Not plausible. Only yesterday he was saying everything he told the Gendai regarding yaocho was true, and we have a recording of that..

He wants to get back to Sumo so he reveals yaocho, and now he is denying this? It's difficult to comprehend. The content of his interview is baffling. What caused him to urgently have to do this? We are greatly concerned.. We will address this issue and Wakanohou's words from yesterday in our upcoming issue".

End of the Shukan Gendai's response.

The plot thickens, or a cynical attempt to cash in on THIS as well?

We shall see..

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And this is where the double conspiracy might come in handy. Maybe Wakanoho told the truth the first time, or at least some kernel of truth, and now he was paid by influential people to revoke his allegations. That would make Wakanoho a clever guy because he earned twice (once from the Shukan Gendai, once from influential people).

A few years back. Itai allegations. Two Oyakata back him up. A few days later-the two Oyakata die within hours of each other in a hospital.

Eerie violin music. Curtains.

Oy! you know better than that! One oyakata, Onaruto, and the former head of his supporters' club (not another oyakata) made allegations, oyakata told all in a series of articles (Shukan Post that time), articles were gathered into a book all ready to go one sale, when both men died on same day in same hospital, of some kind of virus it was said. Odd thing, that, and should have been more thoroughly investigated; but if it was foul play tp stop them talking -- what was left to talk about?

Some years later similar yaocho accusations were made by Itai -- not an independ case since Itai was Onaruto oyakata's star pupil with an even worse reputation for yaocho than his boss. And Itai is still very much alive, and appearing on behalf of the defendants in the Kyokai's libel case.

Orion

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What caused him to urgently have to do this? We are greatly concerned.. We will address this issue and Wakanohou's words from yesterday in our upcoming issue".

End of the Shukan Gendai's response.

Well the Gendai is in full swing of damage control. They have been under intense pressure all this year due to their declining circulation. They lost something like a quarter of their readers from only a year ago. They are now firmly entrenched behind their nemeis Weekly Shukan Post . In their genre the Gendai is in fourth place, way behind the leaders Weekly Shukan Bunshu and Shukan Shincho and no hope of even getting close to the Post.

Ozumo now appear to have had their troubles behind, Gendai is not able to come up with new material to go after and their yaocho court case is in deep trouble. They can't keep mired in Ozumo chitchats when their bulk of readers are more worried about their job, mortgage and cost of living. They will need to find another story altogether soon or Kodansha, their publisher may force the editors drastic changes as they must be killing themselves seeing their rival Post ahead of them in circulation every week.

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