The fact of the matta

[Asojima 2,848]

Musashigawa Rijicho assembled all of the Oyakata who belong to the judging division after the dohyo matsuri today. "If you see anyone not doing a 'real' tachi-ai, with both hands on the ground, stop him, whoever he may be!!", he said unto them. Since Aki of 1984, it is obligatory to do the touchy-ai with both hands down, but lately Yokozuna Asashouryuu and Sekiwake Ama are conspicuous in their not putting down their hands, and there were many fans complaining to the Kyokai about this. "Lately, we're seeing a lot of sloppy tachi-eyes, some of them without putting the hands down at all. If the hands are not down, it's a do-over", he ordered. He will be informing the two tate-gyoji about this as well. A memo regarding this will be posted in both shitakubeya. The new kid in town also promised that bad dohyo- mannered rikishi will be summoned for a scolding, showing his intention of tightening up the slack given these last few years.

Does anyone else think Hokutouriki is going to have a nightmare basho?

So far, the four-on-the-floor tachiai is not being enforced in Sandanme and Makushita on day 1.

[Kintamayama 42,781]

So far, the four-on-the-floor tachiai is not being enforced in Sandanme and Makushita on day 1.

I just read a more detailed article. What Musashigawa actually said was: "We need to watch the tachiai. It's Ok if one hand is down and the other brushes the ground. In case of no hands down at all, you must stop the bout!".

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

The last makushita bout before the juryo dohyo iri, with Ryuho, was stopped several times for not syncing up on the tachiai and putting both hands down. The judges were also quite strict about bowing correctly before exiting down the hanamichi after the bout.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Matta city today. Just annoying. (Sign of disapproval...)

(Sign of disapproval...) (Neener, neener...) (Neener, neener...)

not that many matta at all - just the gyoji and shimpan getting a grip on the henka types and those looking for an advantage at the tachiai.

VERY happy to be honest. Just one 'henka' that I recall - and that ended up being redone IIRC

New Rijicho behind this I hope - good speech he gave too

[vpl 0]

It would be better if they were more consistent with calling matta. At the moment it seems that the first matta is called quite easily but they are reluctant to call it twice even when the tachi-ai the second time is the same as the first try.

[Jonosuke 28]

It would be better if they were more consistent with calling matta. At the moment it seems that the first matta is called quite easily but they are reluctant to call it twice even when the tachi-ai the second time is the same as the first try.

???

Any specific example in Makuuchi?

I will take a look at the video again.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I noticed a few times where on the second start after a matta was called, it looked as though again one rikishi didn't touch down with both hands...but on replay, it was clear that both rikishi had in fact done a "proper" tachiai. The gyoji-shimpan team seem to be right on top of things.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Otokonoyama

[Jakusotsu 5,294]

It would be better if they were more consistent with calling matta. At the moment it seems that the first matta is called quite easily but they are reluctant to call it twice even when the tachi-ai the second time is the same as the first try.

???

Any specific example in Makuuchi?

I will take a look at the video again.

I'm pretty sure the Hokutorious One didn't have his hands down, but I only watched it on the fuzzy wuzzy. Perhaps they realized they would never finish if they were to enforce the rule with him.

And yeah, I agree wirth Nishinoshima, quite annoying when the gyoji called off several perfectly sound tachiai. Hope this gets old soon.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Jakusotsu

[Kintamayama 42,781]

Matta city today. Just annoying. (Sign of disapproval...)

:-) (In a state of confusion...) (In a state of confusion...)

not that many matta at all - just the gyoji and shimpan getting a grip on the henka types and those looking for an advantage at the tachiai.

Papers are all over the place saying there were "many mattas", most of them using the number "6". Also saying many rikishi were quite flabbergasted, annoyed and bewildered by it all.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Mark Buckton 1]

Matta city today. Just annoying. (Sign of disapproval...)

:-O :-D (In a state of confusion...)

not that many matta at all - just the gyoji and shimpan getting a grip on the henka types and those looking for an advantage at the tachiai.

Papers are all over the place saying there were "many mattas", most of them using the number "6". Also saying many rikishi were quite flabbergasted, annoyed and bewildered by it all.

Musashigawa called for a strict observance of the 2 hands down from Saturday. Apparently the shimpan and gyoji 'let things go' if they were close enough under the reign of Kitanoumi but now things are different.

The 'matta' as they ahve been called were simply the gyoji and shimpan looking for full observation of the new 'way' Sitting directly in line with the head judge it was very obvious just how fast these transgressions were noticed.

Kudos to both gyoji and shimpan today / yesterday. (Showing respect...)

[Asashosakari 17,637]

Well, Ushiomaru-Ichihara just had a matta called on what I'd consider a perfectly decent not-quite-four-hands-down tachiai (on the heels of a YMY-Wakatenro matta on an even less objectionable tachiai). With their timing pretty well ruined they proceeded to have two more, now totally blatant, matta. And on the fourth attempt Ichihara semi-henka'ed Ushiomaru anyway. I'm not a fan so far, that's for sure.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama 42,781]

A bad case of overdoing. For me, the basho so far is screwed. Juryo today is so "slow" it's a total turnoff. And what's with the shinpan hollering at Ichihara after he stood next to him after he won? Never saw that before..

[Asojima 2,848]

The timing of the enforcement announcement sucked. It would have been better to start it in Kyushu to allow the rikishi time to adjust their tachiai style and the gyoji to be more consistent in their matta calls. Agree with Kinta that the tachiais have be uniformly lousy.

[Manekineko 200]

If I remember correctly, when they had these "proper tachi-ai" enforcements before (and they did, not so long ago, only I cannot be bothered to look them up) they blew over quite soon. It's a way of showing the public that the Kyokai is Doing Something (khm). Pretty transparent and useless, but I'l bet you a steak or two it blows over by the end of the year (barring new scandals).

I'm not sure why Ichihara was talked to. Not bowing properly?

[madorosumaru 7]

Kakizoe was warned at dohyo-side by Fujishima Oyakata, who was a shimpan, immediately after his bout. Kakizoe had made four false starts against Kasugao without any apparent effort to coordinate with his opponent.

Kakizoe was properly contrite. "I jumped the gun," he told the reporters. "That's not good. I'll reflect upon [the errors of my ways]."

Fujishima Oyakata, former ozeki Musoyama, is Kakizoe's senior at Musashigawa Beya. "I've told that guy about [his tachiai] many times at the keiko-ba," he said angrily. "It seems he cares only about himself and [his tachiai] is so bad it's offensive. If he continues to fail to synch [the tachiai], we will just have to declare it a loss for him."

Edited September 15, 2008 by madorosumaru

[Kintamayama 42,781]

And what's with the shinpan hollering at Ichihara after he stood next to him after he won? Never saw that before..

Here's the story. During his bout with Ushiomaru, first time, Ichihara's right hand didn't go down, matta. Then, breathing not synchronized with his opponent, and finally succeeded on the fourth try. He did win by Hickey-otoshi, but like Kitazakura, was not putting his hands down correctly for the second straight day. Hanaregoma shinpan gave him a stern, vocal warning. "Ichihara himself understands this, but if this continues, he may be summoned to the judging department!", warned Hanaregoma. "The tachiai is really tricky, but I'll do my best so that on day three it will be magnificent", said Ichihara, who will lose tomorrow because he will be too busy thinking, planning and cowering.

On the day a bulletin stressing the importance of a correct tachi-ai was posted in both shitakubeya, there were 5 mattas in Juryo and 1 in Makuuchi.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Kintamayama

[Asashosakari 17,637]

On the day a bulletin stressing the importance of a correct tachi-ai was posted in both shitakubeya, there were 5 mattas in Juryo and 1 in Makuuchi.

Although that drastically understates it; it may have been 5+1 bouts with a matta, but the actual matta total was somewhere close to 15...

[昭和五十八太郎 0]

Am I the only one who remembers back when you barely needed to brush the dohyo to start the match, and you even had the odd jikan-mae. That's long gone. . .

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Am I the only one who remembers back when you barely needed to brush the dohyo to start the match, and you even had the odd jikan-mae. That's long gone. . .

Nope, I recall several of our more experienced members describing much the same thing, as well as discussions about what sort of taichiai are seen on videos of the classic bouts.

[Doitsuyama 1,161]

"The tachiai is really tricky, but I'll do my best so that on day three it will be magnificent", said Ichihara, who will lose tomorrow because he will be too busy thinking, planning and cowering.

Ichihara was right, and he didn't lose, cowering notwithstanding.

[Kintamayama 42,781]

"The tachiai is really tricky, but I'll do my best so that on day three it will be magnificent", said Ichihara, who will lose tomorrow because he will be too busy thinking, planning and cowering.

Ichihara was right, and he didn't lose, cowering notwithstanding.

I knew that, of course. As I know he is an avid reader of our forum, it was my way of motivating him.

Yatta!

[Kintamayama 42,781]

Does anyone else think Hokutouriki is going to have a nightmare basho?

I'm good. I suggest gamers read my posts and do exactly the opposite of what I say. Yusho for sure.

[Asashosakari 17,637]

More fun by the day, now we've shown up the tate-gyoji.

[昭和五十八太郎 0]

Am I the only one who remembers back when you barely needed to brush the dohyo to start the match, and you even had the odd jikan-mae. That's long gone. . .

Nope, I recall several of our more experienced members describing much the same thing, as well as discussions about what sort of taichiai are seen on videos of the classic bouts.

Glad it isn't just me. I know when I was a kid, so talking probably late 80s, early 90s, you still had to have some near contact and the like, not as bad as the old day swhere swinging your arms past your knees counted as a start, but still, it wasn't rigid. It lead to such lovely bouts as that legendary bout between Asanowaka and Kyokudouzan, where Kyokudouzan literally cartwheeled over the flailing Asanowaka for an easy Okuridashi win. Took a heck of a leap no doubt. :) Those were the days.

[Shomishuu 0]

The Tachiai Emphasis Patrols are definitely favoring the joi-jin. Aminishiki got his second free pass today, clearly not touching down. Kotomitsuki was overlooked as well. I'm guessing if Shogun's miss today hadn't happened against the yokozuna, they would have let that one go too. So far I'm underwhelmed.