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Kintamayama

The Brothers- the aftermath

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...Anyway, no disagreement from me, the way the Kyokai went about it was severely sub-standard. (They did try to patch it up by having those re-tests at an accredited lab, but of course GIGO applies.) But that's pretty academic at this point - again, with Japan's drug laws not being overly sympathetic of even users, I have to wonder if the court's opinion will even get anywhere near insisting on internationally-sanctioned procedures, so it might come down to how regular Japanese employers and employees are treated by the law when such issues arise. (Anyone know?) I don't think the judge will require anything stricter by the Kyokai even if they're a "sport" and a higher-profile defendant than your average company; not with how sympathetically they usually appear to be treated in courts of law.

Very generally, I think it would be handled on a case-by-case basis by companies. If the employee were a traditional lifetime sort, and was liked by his peers and bosses, I think any offenses would be swept under the carpet whenever possible, both to save face for the company, and to support their employee. I've seen this happen with drunk driving offenses. If, however, publicity was unavoidable, then the guilty party might well be dismissed from the company.

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Very generally, I think it would be handled on a case-by-case basis by companies. ...

My question was more about how courts of law would handle equivalent cases (employees litigating against a drug-based dismissal, or similar) when "ordinary" companies are involved.

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Very generally, I think it would be handled on a case-by-case basis by companies. ...

My question was more about how courts of law would handle equivalent cases (employees litigating against a drug-based dismissal, or similar) when "ordinary" companies are involved.

I suspect that would be rare. It would be interesting to know how many such cases have been before the Japanese courts before.

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One point I don't recall being discussed (apologies if it has) is that the Taima Torishimari-yaku, or Cannabis Control Law, is only for possession of cannabis. One cannot be charged with a crime for a positive test without the police actually finding you in possession of the controlled substance. Unlike the cases of Wakanoho and Wakakirin, the Hakuroho boys were not found holding. Therefore they could not be charged with a crime under Japanese law. So their dismissal cannot be based on them committing a crime in Japan, as their positive tests don't meet the criteria here...

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Edit: Final verdict-February 15th.

The brothers' lawyer Ben Goshi is ill- verdict postponed till March 1st.

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The trial is over- Verdict-April 19th. Rohou was in court, mage and kimono intact. "I'm keeping in shape. nothing's changed", he said.

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Just for the sake of curiosity, does anyone believe they have the slightest chance of being reinstated?

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Just for the sake of curiosity, does anyone believe they have the slightest chance of being reinstated?

I would like to go on the record and say no way. Not a chance in purgatory. Nada. Nyet. They may be awarded some sort of money , but I highly doubt it.

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The Brothers' suit has been rejected today at the Tokyo District court. They will be appealing the verdict. The Brothers wanted to be re-instated in sumo as they contend they were wrongfully dismissed, but the court thought otherwise. They claimed that the drug checking process was questionable and that a dismissal was way too severe compared to other sports. "The inspection was reasonable and there was no problem with the procedure. Looking at how the Kyokai deals with drug abuse and the general way it is treated in society, I cannot say that the dismissal was an overly severe punishment. You can't compare the national sport to other sports,", said the judge. "I will not agree to be treated like a common criminal for something I did not do!", declared Rohou after the decision.

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Edited by Kintamayama

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"I have nothing to say. No comment", said Rohou's shisho Ootake. "After the tests came back positive, the judgment was that there was no choice but to dismiss them, and the fact that their demands were rejected is natural,", said the Kyokai. They are still training to this day, in the hope that they may one day return to the Sumo world.

Edited by Kintamayama

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It's just too bad.. At some point, one has to decide to "cut bait" and take the losses.. How much money have they lost in the time they've been waiting for some kind of miraculous turn-around? How much money could they have gained by looking elsewhere using their experience as employment in other avenues?

The mere fact that, as they wait, they're getting older and less marketable by any related form of martial arts, real or "imagined".

I give them credit for one thing - digging in their heels and staying with the program. In another age, they would have made great musicians on a large cruise ship....

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They will be appealing the verdict.

I thought this was the appeal, against the original March 2009 verdict. How many more appeals can they have? Are they going to a higher court?

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They will be appealing the verdict.

I thought this was the appeal, against the original March 2009 verdict. How many more appeals can they have? Are they going to a higher court?

Yes they are, just like ex-Tokitsukaze and his never-ending appeals.

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Ootake Oyakata took the stand today as a witness. "After Rohou was tested positive after the first test , Isenoumi Oyakata asked me to convince him to take the more serious test, promising me that the Kyokai will not dismiss him. When the Kyokai called in the police anyway, I thought- 'that's not what we agreed upon - I was definitely screwed!!'. I feel really bad about Rohou and Hakurozan", he said. "Yes, I said that to Ootake, but only after Rohou and Hakurozan insisted on taking the second test, which led me to believe they were innocent..", answered Isenoumi Oyakata. "We discussed this with the police before the inspections began and agreed that if anyone tested positive, we would notify the police..", added Tomozuna Oyakata.

Are we seeing first signs of a crack in the Kyokai wall in this matter?

Payback time for not towing the line perhaps??

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Ootake Oyakata took the stand today as a witness. "After Rohou was tested positive after the first test , Isenoumi Oyakata asked me to convince him to take the more serious test, promising me that the Kyokai will not dismiss him. When the Kyokai called in the police anyway, I thought- 'that's not what we agreed upon - I was definitely screwed!!'. I feel really bad about Rohou and Hakurozan", he said. "Yes, I said that to Ootake, but only after Rohou and Hakurozan insisted on taking the second test, which led me to believe they were innocent..", answered Isenoumi Oyakata. "We discussed this with the police before the inspections began and agreed that if anyone tested positive, we would notify the police..", added Tomozuna Oyakata.

Are we seeing first signs of a crack in the Kyokai wall in this matter?

Payback time for not towing the line perhaps??

He certainly didn't make himself any friends there, did he. Maybe toeing the line just isn't in his character.

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I always thought "these two losers" had a point.

Yes, and actually if you talk to anyone in Kitanoumi beya they share the same "point..."

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The brothers' demands for financial restitution for wrongly being dismissed from sumo has been rejected today at the Tokyo District Court. "There is no doubt that the urine samples were theirs. There is no reason to believe that the drug inspections were not done properly. The fact the Kyokai called in the police proves they wanted to do the right thing," said the judge. Still pending is an appeal regarding their demand to be returned to sumo.

Edited by Kintamayama

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