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Kintamayama

Kitanoumi resigns, the brothers are out

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This a sad day for Sumo.... (Shaking head...) The Sumo world sure is getting some bad unwanted publicity!! (Eek...) I was never a fan of Roho and Hakurozan, but I really liked Wakanoho. I thought he may do well for the future. It's hard to believe that they would think that smoking weed is something that no one will find out about. You know the Heya must have reeked with all that smell. (I am not worthy...) All three will probably write a book now about the Sumo World and make money. (Band playing...)

Good bye to Wakanoho, Roho and Hakurozan.... (Happy goodbyes...) (Happy goodbyes...) (Happy goodbyes...)

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Good bye to Wakanoho, Roho and Hakurozan.... (I am not worthy...) (Happy goodbyes...) (Happy goodbyes...)

Lets hope the other European rikishi watch their backs because they are going to be targeted now.

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Lets hope the other European rikishi watch their backs because they are going to be targeted now.

Actually just not Europeans but every rikishi and oyakata.

The Kyokai is under enormous pressure from media, public and politicians. They are on a very very short leash.

When they decided to expel Roho and Hakurozan as well as forcing Kitanoumi to resign, one of the main things they said at the Directors meeting was no one individual was beyond Ozumo.

It must be more than its players. Ozumo must endure and to that end, they must do everything possible in their power. If the top men realized this and properly responded in the last several years, they would never have in this mess now.

But in the deep end they are in now. They will not wait around for others to make a decision for them. They decided to kick Wakanoho out in three days after the arrest. Once the two Russians had their positive results, they didn't waver or give them a probation, they just removed them. They just showed all rikishi and oyakata they would no longer fool around. The next rikishi to slip will either have to prepare to take the responsibility or they will do it for him.

Musashigawa has been known for his toughness - he even used to shout at Yokozuna Musashimaru when Maru was looking like slacking off. He may no longer have a bamboo stick in the training room or slap his recruit anymore but he still has a heart of steel. Kitanoumi often looked he was indecisive even though he was tough. I doubt Musashigawa will be like Kitanoumi as he knows he can't afford to be.

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The Kyokai is under enormous pressure from media, public and politicians. They are on a very very short leash.

Is there discussion, then, much like in england concerning the relevance and necessity of the royal family? Whether ozumo as a cultural icon is worth all the money and effort in an increasingly non-traditional Japan?

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Is there discussion, then, much like in england concerning the relevance and necessity of the royal family? Whether ozumo as a cultural icon is worth all the money and effort in an increasingly non-traditional Japan?

What is there to discuss? I don't see any connection. Professional sumo exists by selling tickets for its performances. The royal family doesn't.

Orion

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Hakurozan has left the heya physically as well. The apprentices in the heya helped him move all his belongings to his home yesterday. Rohou has left Ootake beya physically as well. "Come visit us whenever you want!", said Ootake Oyakata unto him. His name was removed from the wooden heya name list.

All Ootake rikishi are prohibited from leaving the heya for now after some sort of problem during yesterday's keiko.

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Wonder when the bros. go from the NSK website...Wakanoho went on banzuke day.

If you mean the date they'll be marked as retired, I would guess after Day 1 as there's a lot of database maintenance that always goes on at that time. On the other hand, Nikkan Sports has decided to be proactive...I was just grabbing the updated kensho data, and 'lo and behold, they've already purged Roho from their makuuchi banzuke. (Luckily for me, the current Google cache version still had him listed...)

There are already removed from the official Nihon Sumo Kyokai site : http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/index.html

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The brothers have decided to sue the Prevention Committee for libel, infringement of privacy and unjust dismissal. "I can't understand why we had to quit over this! I will definitely sue them for this, while consulting Rohou ", said Hakurozan. "We will not be suing the Kyokai, only the Prevention committee", said Rohou. "Suing the PC is just like suing the Kyokai", countered Isenoumi.

Hakurozan left the heya, with Kitanoumi wishing him luck in his "second life". Rohou left the heya, but Ootake was not there. "He has been dismissed so he belongs neither to the Kyokai or the heya anymore-therefore I cannot say anything", said Ootake, when asked.

Edited by Kintamayama

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Wonder when the bros. go from the NSK website...Wakanoho went on banzuke day.

If you mean the date they'll be marked as retired, I would guess after Day 1 as there's a lot of database maintenance that always goes on at that time. On the other hand, Nikkan Sports has decided to be proactive...I was just grabbing the updated kensho data, and 'lo and behold, they've already purged Roho from their makuuchi banzuke. (Luckily for me, the current Google cache version still had him listed...)

Since both have him erased now.. did you happen to save a copy? I would like to see it as it was!

Thanks,

Viki

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There are already removed from the official Nihon Sumo Kyokai site : http://sumo.goo.ne.jp/eng/index.html

Marked retired in their profiles, too, now. I'm sure not used to such quick handling by the Kyokai's crack web team...

Since both have him erased now.. did you happen to save a copy? I would like to see it as it was!

Here you go. Wakanoho isn't on there, of course, since he was already gone by the banzuke release.

http://rapidshare.com/files/144124600/Nikk...9_with-Roho.htm

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Now here comes my habitually ignorant view.

All this seems rather puzzling to me, and a sad example of double standards and, frankly, hypocrisy. Kitanoumi HAD NOT to resign when a young rikishi died from brutal physical assault. He HAS to resign when a couple of folks may have smoked a bit of weed. I know, Hakurozan was in Kitanoumi's stable, but so what. He is a grown-up, and Kitanoumi is not supposed to control every of his steps. I thought Kitanoumi performed quite dignified through this entire affair and I am a tad sad to see him go.

As for the "scandal" itself, my goodness what is the fuss about. Two rikishi may have smoked a bit of weed -- as I, and I assume most of us did in our wild young days. It's not even clear whether they did anything illegal -- if the smoked Wakanoho's weed they did not. As for doping charges, yes sure. Ozumo is bound to be infested with steroids, but it's not steroids the rikishi got tested for -- and over which hell broke lose -- it's for smoking a joint.

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Good bye to Wakanoho, Roho and Hakurozan.... :-P (Happy goodbyes...) (Happy goodbyes...)

This may be a really silly question...........................Does anyone know if they will recieve any kind of severence/retirement compensation?

Edited by Exil
Fixed quote tag.

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Good bye to Wakanoho, Roho and Hakurozan.... (Happy goodbyes...) (Happy goodbyes...) (Happy goodbyes...)

This may be a really silly question...........................Does anyone know if they will recieve any kind of severence/retirement compensation?

:-P

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Good bye to Wakanoho, Roho and Hakurozan....
This may be a really silly question...........................Does anyone know if they will recieve any kind of severence/retirement compensation?

Welcome to the forum. :-P

No, I don't think (but I could be wrong) that they will receive a severance - and a pension must surely be out of the question?!?

Edited by Jejima

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Now here comes my habitually ignorant view.

All this seems rather puzzling to me, and a sad example of double standards and, frankly, hypocrisy. Kitanoumi HAD NOT to resign when a young rikishi died from brutal physical assault. He HAS to resign when a couple of folks may have smoked a bit of weed. I know, Hakurozan was in Kitanoumi's stable, but so what. He is a grown-up, and Kitanoumi is not supposed to control every of his steps. I thought Kitanoumi performed quite dignified through this entire affair and I am a tad sad to see him go.

I think it was "the last straw". So many "bad" things happened in sumo under his leadership that this scandal ( involving his own deshi , as you pointed out) was too much. There was no hypocrisy, since he resigned and was not kicked out. He explained that he felt betrayed because he had been on Hakurozan's side all through the ordeal, but when presented with proof, understood that he was backing the wrong horse. If he really didn't want to resign, he would have withstood this somehow like he withstood all the prior cases. But after chiding and fining other Oyakata for "bad leadership", he couldn't overlook his own shortcoming.

Edited by Kintamayama

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This may be a really silly question...........................Does anyone know if they will recieve any kind of severence/retirement compensation?

:-P

Actually the question isn't that silly or funny. All former sekitori are entitled to a severence payment based on their service time, and I wouldn't be so quick to assume that the brothers are ineligible for that even with their having been dismissed rather than retired of their own volition. In any case, these things aren't publicized (anymore), so I don't expect to see it addressed one way or the other in the press.

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"I'm gonna cut off my mage!!", shouted Hakurozan after the decision. "Don't be rash!!", countered Kitanoumi. He cooled down. The other rikishi and Kitanoumi threw a farewell chanko dinner in his honor, with Kitanoumi recognizing his achievements. He will still be going in and out of the heya as he still has stuff to move out from there. A stark contrast to Rohou who was immediately removed from his heya without a parting anything.

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I think (but I'm not positive at all) that the respective merit payments would total 13,180,000 yen for Roho and 10,030,000 yen for Hakurozan, in case they're eligible.

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Rohou went to apologize to the man who brought him into the heya, ex-Taihou. "I'm sorry that I caused you this bother", he said, head hanging. "It's really too bad. You never took the world of Sumo seriously enough. But don't curse the Kyokai-that's no good. When you go back to Russia, you should take this experience with you and learn from it. You are always welcome to come and visit! ", he said. Other heya people tried to persuade him not to take any actions against the Kyokai, but he wasn't listening.

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I initially thought Taiho wanted to bring Roho into his heya hoping him to be the next "Russian" yokozuna after him. But this was likely just an urban folklore.

Hakuroho brothers came not knowing anything about Ozumo structures hoping to catch on with anyone in Ozumo. Their connection was Orora and Orora did the only thing he could do - that is to talk to Kitanoumi and to give his country men a chance of joining Ozumo.

Right after Roho came to Japan, Orora got him to meet personally with Kitanoumi. Kitanoumi's first impression of Roho was not good as he was put off by Roho's gruff attitude. Kitanoumi basically told him he could not help him.

Then the story gets murkier. Roho and Hakurozan had a Japanese sponsor, associate publisher of a rather seedy magazine, who had a certain connection with Kitanoumi. According to a rumor (this is strictly rumor), this man helped Kitanoumi when he got in a trouble with a sexual harassment incident involving a bar hostess (I am sure some of us remember this). Kitanoumi reportedly paid the debt by letting the brothers stay at his heya for six months while he leaned on other oyakata to take them in.

Kitanoumi finally got his old heya buddy Hokutenyu (former ozeki and late Hatachiyama oyakata) to take in Hakurozan and got Roho to go over to Taiho Beya, a walking distance away from his heya.

So now it appears that it wasn't really Taiho's insistence but more of Kitanoumi's persistence Oshi that did the trick.

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According to a rumor (this is strictly rumor), this man helped Kitanoumi when he got in a trouble with a sexual harassment incident involving a bar hostess (I am sure some of us remember this). Kitanoumi reportedly paid the debt by letting the brothers stay at his heya for six months while he leaned on other oyakata to take them in.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. The incident with the bar hostess happened in October 2004 when Roho was already in Makuuchi.

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According to a rumor (this is strictly rumor), this man helped Kitanoumi when he got in a trouble with a sexual harassment incident involving a bar hostess (I am sure some of us remember this). Kitanoumi reportedly paid the debt by letting the brothers stay at his heya for six months while he leaned on other oyakata to take them in.

Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. The incident with the bar hostess happened in October 2004 when Roho was already in Makuuchi.

Jonosuke must have been referring to another, unspecified debt.

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Sorry, but that doesn't make sense. The incident with the bar hostess happened in October 2004 when Roho was already in Makuuchi.

I "misquoted" the rumor. I guess my memory is starting to fade in my old age. Sorry about that, it was my error - but I went back to the source.

The go-between, Mr. M, is actually the owner of adult oriented publication who sponsored all three Russians.

In January 2002 when the brothers came to Japan, their Japanese sponsor was this Mr. M. Using his connection, now deceased TV talent and comedian, Mr. M introduced the brothers to Kitanoumi. Kitanoumi got them to stay in his heya ostensibly for them to learn the sumo culture. He went to ask Taiho oyakata to take Roho in as well as pressured his old heya mate, Hatachiyama to take one of the Russians.

It was Wakanoho whom Mr. M managed to arrange a meeting personally with Kitanoumi about one month after his arrival in Japan. And Kitanoumi was not impressed at all with Wakanoho's demeanor and he did not care to see him again. Then the incident with the woman happened. While Mr. M was taking care of it for Kitanoumi by dealing with the club in Kinshi-cho (near Ryogoku), coincidentally enough Wakanoho managed to join Ozumo.

Back to Hakuroho brothers, a source close to them revealed:

"They have a good personality but their daily conduct was atrocious. Basically they hated doing training sessions. They would lie this and that so they could skip them. They often missed training sessions claiming they had painful injuries but they had no trouble going out at nights. When they got cautioned, they would get real petulant so they were more or less left on their own and allowed to do whatever they pleased since they first joined. Roho was driving around a Benz and Hammer with Hakurozan sitting next to him going to Roppongi all the time (it's against a Kyokai bylaw for an active sekitori to drive their car). Roho used to say 'Dance, dance' and wanted to go to a club all the time. He was a real womanizer and was chasing a woman working for a nearby convenience store one time. Kitanoumi should have known about his conduct since the time they were staying at the heya."

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