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Drugs, crime, and the law

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It is obvious Europeans believe that smoking grass is like eating a banana.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I do see what you are getting at and, ignoring the exaggeration, there is an ounce of truth in it (or a gramme, what do they weigh this stuff in :-P).

I would say that the 'west' (there's that word again) has a more liberal or, dare I say, 'developed' attitude towards that particular substance and they don't lump it into an all-encompassing law on 'drugs'. Let's face it, in a sport that is only recently deciding to enforce any kind of steroid testing, firing someone for using something which is safer than the steroids that he could have taken with no consequences or risk to his rank is ridiculous to me.

If sumo is this ancient sport with it's ancient beliefs then the taking of steroids should be every bit the no-no that marijuana is, yet for some hypocritical reason it doesn't seem to be.

If they are merely firing him because he broke a law of the land (the whole 'being arrested' thing) then fine, it's Japan and in fact Asia in general, that needs to look at the draconian punishment for what is, regardless of how they spin it, a nothing offence.

I still think Wakanoho has been very very hard done by here if there is no route back into ozumo for him. I find it ridiculous and disgusting frankly. Do they also not believe in 2nd chances over there ?

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I still think Wakanoho has been very very hard done by here if there is no route back into ozumo for him. I find it ridiculous and disgusting frankly. Do they also not believe in 2nd chances over there ?

What for? Even if he avoids jail time, he's all but certain to be barred from entering Japan in the future.

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he's all but certain to be barred from entering Japan in the future.

If that's true then it's ridiculous.

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he's all but certain to be barred from entering Japan in the future.

If that's true then it's ridiculous.

Maradona thought the same ...

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he's all but certain to be barred from entering Japan in the future.

If that's true then it's ridiculous.

Maradona thought the same ...

Quick quiz

Maradona was a notorious abuser of

a) marijuana

b) cocaine

c) coca cola

But you have unintentionally demonstrated perfectly the notion that all drugs are lumped in together over there when they should not be.

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Looks like we are getting some more candidates for a shift to the Off-Topic / Drugs, Crime and the Law thread.

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I guess I have to put a note here once more that the Wakanoho thread isn't about drugs and if you really want to insist on bringing your one drug is better than the other argument, I offer for once and all for you to digest and come up with the following list of Controlled Substances and encourage to put your thought on appropriate penalties, sentences and fines that should be applied by the Kyokai and Japanese laws on each of the following but remember to save the Wakanoho thread to its subject matter and put your drugs on this off-topic thread instead:

* gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid (GHB)

* 12-Methoxyibogamine (Ibogaine)

* Cannabis (includes cannabinoids found in marijuana, hashish, and hashish oil).

* Dimethyltryptamine (DMT)

* Heroin (Diacetylmorphine) nicomorphine (Vilan), dextromoramide (Palfium), ketobemidone (Ketalgin), dihydromorphine (Paramorfan), piritramide (Dipidolor), diacetyldihydromorphine (Paralaudin), dipipanone (Wellconal), phenadoxone (Heptalgin)

* benzylmorphine (Peronine), nicocodeine (Tusscodin), thebacon, tilidine (Valoron), meptazinol (Meptid), propiram (Algeril), acetyldihydrocodeine

* Pholcodine

* MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine, Ecstasy)

* Psilocybin

* 5-MeO-DIPT (Foxy / Foxy Methoxy / 5-methoxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine)

* Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD / Acid)

* Peyote

* Mescaline

* Methaqualone (Quaalude, Sopor, Mandrax)

* 2,5-dimethoxy-4-methylamphetamine (STP / DOM)

* Tetrahydrogestrinone (THG / "The Clear")

* 2C-T-7 (Blue Mystic / T7)

* 2C-B (Nexus / Bees / Venus / Bromo Mescaline)

* Cathinone (β-ketoamphetamine)

* AMT (alpha-methyltryptamine)

* Bufotenin (5-OH-DMT)

* Benzylpiperazine (BZP)

* DXO, active metabolite of Dextromethorphan, NMDA antagonist. [12]

* Cocaine (used as a topical anesthetic);

* Methylphenidate (Ritalin) & Dexmethylphenidate (Focalin)

* Opium and opium tincture (laudanum)

* Oxycodone (semi-synthetic opioid; active ingredient in Percocet, OxyContin, and Percodan)

* Fentanyl

* Morphine

* Amphetamine (racemic)

* Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine)

* Methamphetamine (Desoxyn)

* Hydromorphone (Dilaudid)

* Secobarbital (Seconal)

* Pethidine (USAN: Meperidine; Demerol)

* Phencyclidine (PCP);

* pentobarbital Nembutal

* Amphetamines

* Nabilone (Cesamet)

* Prohormones

* Talbutal or butalbital

* Buprenorphine;

* Dihydrocodeine

* Ketamine

* Xyrem,

* Hydrocodone / codeine

* Marinol

* Paregoric

* LSA

* Benzodiazepines

* Dextropropoxyphene (Doloxene) and propoxyphene

* Phenobarbital;

* Pentazocine (Talwin);

* Difenoxin

* Phentermine, sibutramine and mazindol;

* Pseudostimulant modafinil.

* Chloral hydrate

* Meprobamate (Miltown)

Edited to fit in this thread from the previous thread.

Edited by Jonosuke

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The WADA guidelines say that it's doping if the concentration exceeds 15 nanograms of THC/cannabis metabolites per cubic centimetre (or millilitre, whichever you prefer) in the urine sample.

I still don't understand why THC is considered doping by the WADA. Illegal by criminal law, sure, but performance-enhancing?

Let's check the link (provided by Asashosakari):

There are several reasons for the prohibition on marijuana. Marijuana is illegal in the U.S. and involvement with illegal substances may be determined to go against the spirit of sport.

"May be determined"?? C'mon... :-S

In addition, the use of a substance, including marijuana or alcohol, that may impair a competitor's reaction time or judgment may create a safety hazard for that ahtlete and other competitors. Impaired judgment is a risk in any sport.

However, according to that document, alcohol is only prohibited for an absurdly small number of specific sports. Hypocrisy much?

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There are several reasons for the prohibition on marijuana. Marijuana is illegal in the U.S. and involvement with illegal substances may be determined to go against the spirit of sport.

"May be determined"?? C'mon... :-S

Do note that that's a U.S. document. Potential lobbying effects aside, the world body doesn't necessary have the same reasons for banning it. What I found more interesting is that internationally, narcotics and cannabinoids are only prohibited in-competition, but not outside of it (which is technically the time when the brothers were caught), and in fact aren't even regularly tested for outside of competition.

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Roho's Lawyer Shionoya

----------------------

(On the Kyokai's decision)

"Roho is asking to see the Prevention Committee members and have them explained to him about his result."

"We cannot accept it at all. Roho himself has not been convinced the right decision was reached. We will consider all possible

avenues including legal processes."

"I read their findings but they lack the evidence to reach such a decision. "

"We also feel during the LA Jungyo he may have come across the secondary smoke at a bar. Regardless I intend to speak to experts in this area and respond to the charge."

(This is rather a strange argument for them to make since Roho already stated he has never seen, touched or come across marijuana at all, how did he know? Like he inhaled it without knowing what it is...)

Wakanoho's Lawyer Miyata

-------------------------

"I have been checking all the penalties handed down by the Kyokai since 1960s and I have not come across one as extreme as this one. Obviously it is up to Wakanoho to make an objection to the Kyokai but if he decides to do so, I will certainly help him to bring them to the court. But at this point it's what he wants to do the most."

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Roho's Lawyer Shionoya

----------------------

"We also feel during the LA Jungyo he may have come across the secondary smoke at a bar. Regardless I intend to speak to experts in this area and respond to the charge."

It remains in the system for four months???

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Roho's Lawyer Shionoya

----------------------

"We also feel during the LA Jungyo he may have come across the secondary smoke at a bar. Regardless I intend to speak to experts in this area and respond to the charge."

It remains in the system for four months???

Probably not.

your best defense against urine testing is to be clean. Unfortunately, this may be difficult since urine tests may detect marijuana 1-5 days after an occasional use, 1-3 weeks in regular users, and 4-6 weeks in multiple daily users

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4934

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Roho's Lawyer Shionoya

----------------------

"We also feel during the LA Jungyo he may have come across the secondary smoke at a bar. Regardless I intend to speak to experts in this area and respond to the charge."

It remains in the system for four months???

A Sponichi is reporting an "undisclosed fact" that after their initial testing turned positive, in the testing room, one of the brothers admitted to an oyakata, "Actually we received mariujuna from a black singer during the LA Jungyo and we smoked it."

However since then, they have denied making such a statement.

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Quick quiz

Maradona was a notorious abuser of

a) marijuana

b) cocaine

c) coca cola

But you have unintentionally demonstrated perfectly the notion that all drugs are lumped in together over there when they should not be.

All things considered, as long as tobacco is legal, there's a better argument that cocaine should be legal as opposed to marijuana. Other than the method of ingestion, there are a lot more similarities between nicotine and cocaine than there are between nicotine and THC.

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Two rikishi may have smoked a bit of weed -- as I, and I assume most of us did in our wild young days.

I realize some parts of the world are infested with drugs, but don't think this is the case everywhere. I know personally one pothead, at most.

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Two rikishi may have smoked a bit of weed -- as I, and I assume most of us did in our wild young days.

I realize some parts of the world are infested with drugs, but don't think this is the case everywhere. I know personally one pothead, at most.

I guess it depends what you consider a pothead. I know no seroius drug addicts, but also few people who would never have touched weed. As for myself, I tried this a couple of times many years ago but didn't like it (I prefer to have a clear head).

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My best mate admits to being a pothead and I have at least one more in my my close circle of friends.

Strangely neither has toched the stuff recently but thats mainly due to a supply problem in Grimsby.

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My point is, you may know of only one but their is a good chance others are also using. Some of the others that are using would probably shock the hell out of you. Sorry for being... (You are going off-topic...)

I realize there are probably few more who've tried it among the people I know but I'd be very surprised to learn someone is a regular user. Of course, I'm an old fart by now and the situation is probably somewhat different among those half my age. Still...

Well, back to topic.

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Two rikishi may have smoked a bit of weed -- as I, and I assume most of us did in our wild young days.

I realize some parts of the world are infested with drugs, but don't think this is the case everywhere. I know personally one pothead, at most.

It is possible to have tried something once, like in Henry's example of 'wild young days' without being a 'pothead', which heavily implies regular use.

If I have a pint of beer am I all of a sudden Oliver Reed's long lost brother?

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I might add the pothead in question is, I believe, deceased now (he disappeared and his parents returned the CDs I had lent him when I was away from my apartment but the note they wrote implied a sad end to their son; suicide?), so for the time being I can't say for certain I know someone who's even tried the stuff, let alone consumes it regularly. All I'm saying is that there are parts of the world where the stuff is used by a very small percentage of people. It's nothing like something most people have tried once or twice.

Alcohol is legal in most places. I'm a drunkard myself.

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I wasn't sure where I should post this story but since there is no really right one, I am putting it here:

Former Roho's lawyer Yasuo Shionoya said he would resubmit their inquiry to the Kyokai after finding their initial responses totally unsatisfactory.

"They are saying Roho had 10 or whatever times more than the standard number but they have not explained the meaning of the number. But I can tell you by itself it does not prove at all that Roho smoked marijuana directly," he said. "I'd like to make it clear to all of you that there is no evidence whatsoever that Roho actually smoked marijuana in L.A. In the testing room, he was surrounded by a number of oyakata and he was forced to 'confess' he smoked marijuana during the LA Jungyo."

The saga continues....

Edited by Jonosuke

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Shutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutupshutup.

"They are saying Roho had 10 or whatever times more than the standard number but they have not explained the meaning of the number. But I can tell you by itself it does not prove at all that Roho smoked marijuana directly," he said.

And go read Ozumo Discussions, Mr. Bigshot Lawyer, where somebody can tell you exactly what those numbers mean.

(Sorry, I get really cranky when lawyers act like it's a good defense to basically go, "sorry guys, you must be in the wrong because you haven't sufficiently babied my client and explained to us all this stuff that any random monkey can figure out in two minutes with a Google search." I wholeheartedly support vicious contempt of court penalties for any lawyer who actually tries to pull that nonsense inside of a court room. Okay, rant over.)

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