Sign in to follow this  
JAB

Drugs, crime, and the law

Recommended Posts

perhaps the violence didn't spill over from Moss side (and Rusholme / Hulme) into the university area but the scams did, the robbed cars etc - the drugs. Many of the studes were in a 'big' city (for the UK) with the nightlife they's never before experienced.

Horrible place Moss Side and at one point I had to drive through every day - and as luck would have it a car broke down on me in Moss Side - left it, hailed a cab and escaped.

At one point they were actually using grenades in Moss Side. Severl folk killed in one drive by when a grenade was tossed into a pub - again about 87-9?

Got out of control - really rough.

There was a silver lining to the city though - football and music - I recall seeing Madonna (once) doing surprise visits to various clubs before she hit it really big and The Beastie Boys also once in the old Hacienda. No idea if that place is still going. Complete pit in the day would be better off closed down.

Footy - of course Old Trafford. 1.20 to get in (no pound sign on J-keyboard) and used to stand in the Stretford End or United Road - never thought you couldn't get in. Great time. Home and away - never won a thing bar the 83/85 Cup Finals at the time but still massive support. Of course the scousers murdering the Italian and Belgian fans in Heysel and each other in Hillsborough put pay to standing in stadiums.

Now it is all the glory hunting fans from the continent and Ireland visiting for the day as well as prawn eaters from outside the area supporting MUFC. Local lads struggle to get tickets and prices are stupid.

In getting tickets for the Oct 1st 1997 win over Juventus (great game) in the Champions League, my own ticks had to come through a Japanese person!! but one with a contact to the ticket office. Two shrimp eaters were told of the 'double booking' I understand.

Edited by Mark Buckton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You do understand the difference between what Sir Paul did, and the former Mr. Olympia did...? (Gyoji...)

Hilarious:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CrCgEwCHpQM&...feature=related

I went to a couple of clubs, while I was student in Manchester.Not really my scene. Scams?Yes.I can very well believe that.

also once in the old Hacienda. No idea if that place is still going. Complete pit in the day would be better off closed down.

Are you serious? :-O

The Hacienda was famously shut down by the police and the building demolished years ago in the nineties.

Edited by hidenohana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

left Manchester in 1990, based in the UK (Hereford and Stamford) for the next 6 years but spent long periods working in Scandinavia / Turkey / US & Canada / EU / in tents all over the place so missed a great deal. Only learnt about that shooting in Scotland (Dunbalane?) a fornight after it happened. Saw a 'Top 100' English we love to hate and didn't know many of the names near the top of the list.

Missing a hole like the Hacienda torn down - ........

Left UK for good in mid-96 and have been back only 3 times since, mid-97 / late-98 / mid-2000. Not since. Maybe one day - go and have a look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good, good Hide. Just so long as you know Sir Paul brought over half a pound of grass into Japan with him in 1970. That, after having fought just to be allowed into Japan due to prior convictions elsewhere. I don't recall the Guv ever smuggling...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good, good Hide. Just so long as you know Sir Paul brought over half a pound of grass into Japan with him in 1970. That, after having fought just to be allowed into Japan due to prior convictions elsewhere. I don't recall the Guv ever smuggling...

<pedant>1980</pedant>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya got me, Ryu. There I was, harping on the difference between smoking and smuggling... (Gyoji...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
just to add to the very sensible comments from Orion (above) - and Hashira (is that 'hash' coincidental BTW?) - the victions of drug related crime have opinions and experience too.

I have been a victim of drug related crime.

You have be a victim of the illegality of drugs. There would be no drugs related crime if all drugs would be legal. Look at the past: Up until about the fifties there wasn't punishment for the use of drugs, and it was comon practice for doctors to prescriibe the drugs one was addicted to. Morphinism was an illness heavenly related to practicising doctors and war casualtities.The laws changed because the police in the USA had to get an new enemy when prohibition was abolished. The effect of these laws is only to create massive amounts of money for those who are selling the illegal drugs. In Germany we had roughly1% of the population addicted to drugs at the beginning of the twentieth century and there are actually 1% of the population addicted to drugs - only now in much worse conditions because of the illegality.

Nobody would have to rob to gain the money for their drugs - especially opiates are in fact very cheap. They cost a lot of money because of their illegality.

This high prices give lot of incentives to sell drugs - something which would vanish if the addicted would get their drug over official channels.

And in fact there are few drugs which such a bad record as alcohol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You have be a victim of the illegality of drugs. There would be no drugs related crime if all drugs would be legal. Look at the past: Up until about the fifties there wasn't punishment for the use of drugs, and it was comon practice for doctors to prescriibe the drugs one was addicted to. Morphinism was an illness heavenly related to practicising doctors and war casualtities.The laws changed because the police in the USA had to get an new enemy when prohibition was abolished. The effect of these laws is only to create massive amounts of money for those who are selling the illegal drugs. In Germany we had roughly1% of the population addicted to drugs at the beginning of the twentieth century and there are actually 1% of the population addicted to drugs - only now in much worse conditions because of the illegality.

Nobody would have to rob to gain the money for their drugs - especially opiates are in fact very cheap. They cost a lot of money because of their illegality.

This high prices give lot of incentives to sell drugs - something which would vanish if the addicted would get their drug over official channels.

And in fact there are few drugs which such a bad record as alcohol.

Thats because more people use alcohol than drugs Tomayama.

I refer you to my previous post,lets make everything legal and there wont be any crime at all.

Same mentality mate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The laws changed because the police in the USA had to get an new enemy when prohibition was abolished. The effect of these laws is only to create massive amounts of money for those who are selling the illegal drugs. In Germany we had roughly1% of the population addicted to drugs at the beginning of the twentieth century and there are actually 1% of the population addicted to drugs - only now in much worse conditions because of the illegality.

There are some great books on this, but the timeline is a bit off. It was the Nixon administration that really stepped up the penalties for drug use, and who strongarmed other nations into adopting zero-tolerance policies. Way back when, I wrote my thesis on the criminalization of club drugs, but I don't remember too many of the details anymore (and no, it's not because I did too many of them, it's not my thing personally). The scheduling policies of the FDA have been a travesty, however, and were set up in a way to intentionally prevent the conversation from being opened up again.

I do think it's going a bit far to say that there wouldn't be any drug-related crime if drugs were legal (after all, just to use a rudimentary example, the most stolen item in the United States is Preparation H, simply because people are embarrased to buy it), but you'd probably see less violent crime overall.

On the other hand, Japan doesn't seem to be having too many problems with their zero tolerance policy. Without actually doing something foolish like looking up statistics, I'd guess that they have a much lower rate of violent drug-related crime than countries with less stringent policies (leaving aside whether that's because of their drug policy) and that there are fewer people there addicted to illegal drugs. That also ignores that the youth need to find other things to do with their time instead, like enter into suicide pacts and become holed up in their parents' basement apartments....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats because more people use alcohol than drugs Tomayama.

I refer you to my previous post,lets make everything legal and there wont be any crime at all.

Same mentality mate.

unbecuffinglievable idea Fuji.

Imagine all drugs were legal, and that using were not a crime. OK. Crime rate cut there.

But, do you really imagine that the users, walking around as high as kites in some cases, would themselves refrain from other 'incidents' that equate to crimes - assault, damage of property, obstruction of business, I don't know - never used - but whatever they want to do or whatever adverse reactions force them to do when up there with the fairies?

Edited by Mark Buckton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thats because more people use alcohol than drugs Tomayama.

I refer you to my previous post,lets make everything legal and there wont be any crime at all.

Same mentality mate.

unbecuffinglievable idea Fuji.

Imagine all drugs were legal, and that using were not a crime. OK. Crime rate cut there.

But, do you really imagine that the users, walking around as high as kites in some cases, would themselves refrain from other 'incidents' that equate to crimes - assault, damage of property, obstruction of business, I don't know - never used - but whatever they want to do or whatever adverse reactions force them to do when up there with the fairies?

I would assume that legally you would still be responsible for your actions.

For instance if you beat up your girlfriend or ran over a pedestrian,the law generally doesn't accept mitigation if you're drunk or, for that matter on other intoxicating substances.

'Medical issues' are maybe a slightly different matter; diabetics sometimes become aggressive and violent with low blood sugar levels . This has been used as a defence in court,to explain criminal behaviour, on part of the defendant.

Edited by hidenohana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all correct - thus my making bold that ridiculous claim that making drugs legal will remove crime or result in none at all. Especially if it is related to those using (legal) drugs.

Edited by Mark Buckton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Wikipedia .

THis is what legal or essentially legal means.

Drug policy of the Netherlands

Drug law enforcement

.....

Large-scale dealing, production, import and export (of cannabis) are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, even if this does not supply end users or coffeeshops with more than the allowed amounts. Exactly how coffeeshops get their supplies is rarely investigated, however. What is certain is that coffeeshops do sell cannabis that comes from countries where it is illegal.[citation needed] The average concentration of THC in the cannabis sold in coffeeshops has increased from 9% 1998 to 18% 2005.[5] One of the reasons is plant breeding and use of greenhouse technology for illegal growing of marijuana in Netherlands......

Non-enforcement

Cannabis remains a controlled substance in the Netherlands and both possession and production for personal use are still misdemeanors, punishable by fine. Coffee shops are also technically illegal according to the statutes but, as has been said, are flourishing nonetheless.

However, a policy of non-enforcement has led to a situation where reliance upon non-enforcement has become common, and because of this the courts have ruled against the government when individual cases were prosecuted.

This is because the Dutch Ministry of Justice applies a gedoogbeleid (policy of tolerance or allowance policy) with regard to soft drugs: an official set of guidelines telling public prosecutors under which circumstances offenders should not be prosecuted. This is a more official version of the common practice in other countries, in which law enforcement sets priorities as to which offenses are important enough to spend limited resources on.

..........

In the Dutch courts, however, it has long been determined that the institutionalized non-enforcement of statutes with well defined limits constitutes de facto decriminalization. The statutes are kept on the books mainly due to international pressure and in adherence with international treaties.

Drug law enforcement

Importing and exporting of any classified drug is a serious offence. The penalty can run up to 12 to 16 years if it is hard drug trade, maximum 4 years for import or export of large quantities of cannabis.[7]

Edited by hidenohana

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Imagine all drugs were legal, and that using were not a crime. OK. Crime rate cut there.

unbecuffinglievable

But, do you really imagine that the users, walking around as high as kites in some cases, would themselves refrain from other 'incidents' that equate to crimes - assault, damage of property, obstruction of business, I don't know - never used - but whatever they want to do or whatever adverse reactions force them to do when up there with the fairies?

No,no Mark you misunderstand me...

When I said make everything legal,I meant EVERYTHING including "assault, damage of property and obstruction of business. "

Then there would be no crime because everything would be legal.

Jeez dont you recognise sarchasm Mark (In a state of confusion...)

Edited by Fujisan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Intai over a Mary Jane? Wow that's harsh. Such a budding career too (Showing respect...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just logged and read this topic. Lol shocked is the least I can say. Wakanoho was a promising rikishi. Imo he is a child yet tho.

Btw, many of the young people in Eastern Europe use grass :/ I have some friends in Russia and all of them smoke it :D Many of my friends in Bulgaria smoke too. It is obvious Europeans believe that smoking grass is like eating a banana.

We will see fewer henkas now at least :D Lol. On the other hand we won't have an Ossetian Yokozuna :(

Amen, Wakanoho. Your stay was short but memorable. You won't read it but I wish you very good luck with what you do from now and I hope you will make use of the lesson life just gave you.

Edited by Skotkotaikai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is obvious Europeans believe that smoking grass is like eating a banana.

Speak for yourself.

Edited by Kotoseiya Yuichi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to live a stone's throw away from a store called Stoner's Paradise. Not hard to imagine what kind of paraphenalia they sold. Lots of shops in Japan carry the same sort of equipment. Also, magic mushrooms were legal until a few years back, and were sold fairly openly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, magic mushrooms were legal until a few years back, and were sold fairly openly.

I think they were made illegal immediately prior to the Japan-Korea football World Cup in 2002. Somebody pointed out to the powers-that-be that an influx of foreigners with access to legal hallucinogens might make things interesting.....

From my experience of Japan prior to then, they were never that prominent. I never saw (or heard of) magic mushrooms in my years spent in Hiroshima Prefecture. The only time I saw them in Japan, was when they were being sold by street hawkers in Roppongi (Tokyo).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is obvious Europeans believe that smoking grass is like eating a banana.

Speak for yourself.

Guess you are an exception. :D But c'mon. Everyone knows that grass is considered an innocent substance in Europe.

I didn't mean that everyone smokes I meant most believe it is as harmless as eating a banana. And wtf do u make me explain my posts...

In fact I don't believe it is harmless. It clouds the mind, dulls our awareness.

Nvm I don't want to post in this sad topic anymore. Wakanoho is gone and that's it. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I must agree that Turkey & Israel is Europe, but I never agree with You, perkele Skot(pig)kot(cat)aikai!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Everyone knows that grass is considered an innocent substance in Europe.

This is largely true in some countries especially among young people but this is certainly not the case in Finland (where Kotoseiya-zeki is from) and many other parts of Europe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I must agree that Turkey & Israel is Europe, but I never agree with You, perkele Skot(pig)kot(cat)aikai!

:D lol how did you guess my name :(

Everyone knows that grass is considered an innocent substance in Europe.

This is largely true in some countries especially among young people but this is certainly not the case in Finland (where Kotoseiya-zeki is from) and many other parts of Europe.

I am glad there are countries where people don't like grass. Seems I was mistaken. Forgive my ignorance :)

Too bad Wakanoho was one of those who like smoking :( I wonder if they have tested Aran too? Hope at least he stays in Sumo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I must agree that Turkey & Israel is Europe, but I never agree with You, perkele Skot(pig)kot(cat)aikai!

:D lol how did you guess my name :(

I like animals, but never use them! :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this