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Drugs, crime, and the law

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Well Mark if you want to be a wise ass about it..... I was busy doing your mom, so I could not have stolen anything from you (Blowing up furiously...)

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These kind of remarks are completely out of line. Please do not make me repeat myself.

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hide - half of me says that you should be cut some slack for growing up near / in Grimsby (the 'Grim part of a song some years ago) but seriously beofre Fuji jumps on me for picking on his buddy, if you asked about how I know the guy was on pot when he cut me - the police told me. Was in the station long enough - both peole - only I was in the 'lounge' while the pothead was in the ....cell I guess, never saw him again.

Please Mark, don't cut me any slack on account of me being from Grimsby or for that matter being a friend of Paul's .I appreciate your sensitivity and concern ,though.

Going back to this particular incident, I'd love to know what exactly was the chain of cause and effect between the smoking of a joint and his pulling a knife on you?

I'm interested,since I've had a knife pulled on me recently and if ,at least, indifference to the consequences of extreme violence is one of the features of cannabis smoking,then it's something I have to take into consideration -if I'm ever passing a group of Rastafarians or have the urge to smoke a spliff in an Amsterdam cafe.

Finally,since we are talking about personal experience ,Mark,may I ask , with your attitude, how many times you've had the crap beaten out of you ,by someone who was drunk?

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Although that might be true in the majority of cases, coming in with a blanket statement such as "no link whatsoever" is amusing to me. Before you condemn me for not knowing what I'm taking about let me just point out that the first drug I tried was heroin. That was my gateway substance and there are few others I haven't experienced at this stage.

As with any psychoactive substance the effects vary from person to person. I have personal experience of both violence and crime commited by people on cannabis.

This link, from the BBC,quoting a study from New Zealand seems to justify both positions:

Cannabis linked to violence in young men

Apparently the violence associated with cannabis users is not attributable to the drug's psychoactive properties of the drug,but rather due to its illegality.

Not a particularly intuitive conclusion,I have to say.

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As with any psychoactive substance the effects vary from person to person. I have personal experience of both violence and crime commited by people on cannabis.

As for cannabis, I belong to that unlucky group of people. After running like mad for tens of kms all night and with almost no hair left on my head and drinking one grocery's all milk, I've said to myself I'd rather like to be shot than to be near that stuff again. The first time, I had been told that I had had the bad stuff. But no, just as I've suspected because I did it with others the first time, the second time was again pure horror. Cannabis doesn't bode me well, the others too I suspect.

Japan is not the only country in Asia that's strict on drugs. I can name a few.

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As with any psychoactive substance the effects vary from person to person. I have personal experience of both violence and crime commited by people on cannabis.

As for cannabis, I belong to that unlucky group of people. After running like mad for tens of kms all night and with almost no hair left on my head and drinking one grocery's all milk, I've said to myself I'd rather like to be shot than to be near that stuff again. The first time, I had been told that I had had the bad stuff. But no, just as I've suspected because I did it with others the first time, the second time was again pure horror. Cannabis doesn't bode me well, the others too I suspect.

Japan is not the only country in Asia that's strict on drugs. I can name a few.

I don't get it.Too much THC??! (Sign of approval...)

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I've heard that dealers often lace mary jane with other drugs. As MJ is claimed to not be physically addictive, this presents a problem to the dealer. He wants you back buying soon, and often. So, they lace it with something that is addictive, so you come scurrying back for more soon and more often than you would have otherwise.

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have no idea

What is the availability of drugs like in Mongolia and are the laws very strict like Japan?(I don't think so,but there's no harm asking! (Sign of approval...) )

I know that cannabis is not legal anywhere in the world.In Amsterdam famous for its drug culture,cannabis is only tolerated.Is there a similar situation in Mongolia?

Edited by hidenohana

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have no idea

What is the availability of drugs like in Mongolia and are the laws very strict like Japan?(I don't think so,but there's no harm asking! (Sign of approval...) )

I know that cannabis is not legal anywhere in the world.In Amsterdam famous for its drug culture,cannabis is only tolerated.Is there a similar situation in Mongolia?

I'd say Mongolia is quite strict. But I've to mention, Mongolia is not one of the world's most popular markets for drugs. With all the Western popular culture influences nowadays, just some local pop culture persona are getting busted and receiving lengthy sentences lately. Several varieties of those grasses grow wild here

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hide - half of me says that you should be cut some slack for growing up near / in Grimsby (the 'Grim part of a song some years ago) but seriously beofre Fuji jumps on me for picking on his buddy, if you asked about how I know the guy was on pot when he cut me - the police told me. Was in the station long enough - both peole - only I was in the 'lounge' while the pothead was in the ....cell I guess, never saw him again.

is illegal.

I'm not gonna jump on you Mark...Hidenohana can take care of himself....

Personally I find potheads are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

I once watched my friend who was a regular smoker nearly drowning in his own sick while suffering a 'Whitey' and he was lucky we where there to save him with a strategically placed plastic bag which I hung from his ears.....No really,,,it was quite a sight.

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I'm not gonna jump on you Mark...Hidenohana can take care of himself....

Sorry,I was rude.I guess a bit childish on my part.

Personally I find potheads are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.

I once watched my friend who was a regular smoker nearly drowning in his own sick while suffering a 'Whitey' and he was lucky we where there to save him with a strategically placed plastic bag which I hung from his ears.....No really,,,it was quite a sight.

Amazing.I didn't know this.I know that smokers may have psychological problems,such as schizophrenia, from long term use,but I guess this is something I have to do some 'research' on.

BTW what's a 'whitey' Paul?

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Amazing.I didn't know this.I know that smokers may have psychological problems,such as schizophrenia, from long term use,but I guess this is something I have to do some 'research' on.

BTW what's a 'whitey' Paul?

I'm not really the person to ask I was only a recreational user and never suffered a whitey but I have seen my friends suffering many times.

All I know is that it involves the user going white as a ghost and it usually involves vomiting....I only know what it is from my friends telling me and couldn't tell you anymore.

Best ask one of our regular users how and why it happens.

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I believe the paleness when someone has a whitey is due to a decrease in blood pressure draining blood from the capillaries under the skin.

It has happened to me once or twice. A bit like getting too drunk when you're not used to alcohol: you go dizzy, incoherent and nauseous. As far as I've ever seen it is caused by mixing cannabis and alcohol or simply by smoking too much before you've built up a tolerance.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable can correct/add to this.

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hide - half of me says that you should be cut some slack for growing up near / in Grimsby (the 'Grim part of a song some years ago) but seriously beofre Fuji jumps on me for picking on his buddy, if you asked about how I know the guy was on pot when he cut me - the police told me. Was in the station long enough - both peole - only I was in the 'lounge' while the pothead was in the ....cell I guess, never saw him again.
I'd love to know what exactly was the chain of cause and effect between the smoking of a joint and his pulling a knife on you?

wrong accent - near Stanley park in that toilet called Liverpool. He heard me and a friend talking, was about 20 years older than me, had a blade. No warning, no communication before. Nothing. After that he was chinned by another guy about the same age as him (not with me) just to stop him.

Finally,since we are talking about personal experience ,Mark,may I ask , with your attitude, how many times you've had the crap beaten out of you ,by someone who was drunk?

drunk people - once - at a fair when about 13/14 years old. 3 or 4 lads about 16/17, random beaing, didn't know them and walked round the waltzers, bumped one of their arms - that was all it took. Rough in the 80s Manchester. But rougher now I hear - nicknamed Gunchester and all.

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Personally, I started smoking marijuana when I was 12 and it has never caused me any problems. Alcohol, on the other hand, has caused me numerous problems. The difference between the two is huge to me. I see marijuana as very harmless and mild and alcohol as very dangerous. Most of the negative aspects surrounding marijuana can be attributed to it's illegality rather than to the effects of the drug. Also, as someone already mentioned, if some "pothead" slashed someone's face that doesn't mean marijuana caused his violent behavior. The guy could have just been some crazy nutter.

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The guy could have just been some crazy nutter...
...and pissed drunk to boot.

Amen to everything You said, bro! (Sign of approval...)

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I think it is already written higher up - the police said he was using at the time. No mention was made of alcohol.

Does it mean the drugs caused his action? Would a person not on weed at the time have done it?

As much as I cannot answer 100% yes, neither can the claim be made the opposite way.

Shibs - sounds like you are still using with the 'has never caused' - be careful in Japan hey?

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I think it is already written higher up - the police said he was using at the time.

Well if the police said that, it must be true - or must it?

Did they have on hand the equipment (and were willing to go to the cost of testing) at the time of the arrest to test that the chap in question was definitely high on one drug as opposed to another? Or if he was on a cocktail of things, including (the drug that few would argue against being a cause of violence) alcohol? In an earlier post to this thread, we read that the attacker was being held in a cell, whilst the attacked was elsewhere within the police station. It does not look as if enough time passed for a scientific test to have been properly conducted, before the victim was informed about what drug the attacker was on.

Perhaps the attacker 'confessed' to being on marijuana - in which case he may have been hiding from the fact that he was actually on a different drug(s).

Or the police may have found incriminating evidence about the person - such as a bag of the drug, or a pipe, or at least some rolling papers (in which case, they would probably have mentioned such stuff to the attacked).

Perhaps they used their skilled eye in spotting users on cannabis (as opposed to something else), and made a judgment that the chap was on cannabis. I suppose this is probably the case. However, police have been known to make mistakes from time-to-time.

Edited by Jejima

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also - it was Liverpool of course!

If the police found something I have no idea - over 20 years ago. If they mentioned finding something - I don't recall. The dope mention - very clear as my first exposure to drug induced crime. Took a couple of hours so I have no idea what happened in other rooms but the scenario you lay out are all possible.

Police do make mistakes - and some lie - of course, but in my mid-teens, confused and cut... I took them at their word.

Of course you did miss the one about him perhaps being a repeat crim and known to the police already. As I said, it was Liverpool so........ stats say.........

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Shibs - sounds like you are still using with the 'has never caused' - be careful in Japan hey?

I don't really look for it, but once in a while it comes up and I partake in Japan. No worries.

Really, not being able to get marijuana (or magic mushrooms) is one point I don't like about Japan. If I had a little weed during the week, I wouldn't drink as much and my quality of life would definitely be better. No doubt about it. I think if the world smoked a little more marijuana and drank a little less it would be a better place.

If only Japan had the cheese, sausages, bread, beer, and weed of my great state of Minnesota.

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The dope mention - very clear as my first exposure to drug induced crime.

Did the police call it 'dope' or that the person was 'doped up' as opposed to it being 'pot' or him being 'a pot-head'?

If yes, then the police may have believed the assailant to have been on a drug(s) other than cannabis. The reason being that 'dope' is general slang for illegal drugs (and sometimes legal ones too).

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The dope mention - very clear as my first exposure to drug induced crime.

Did the police call it 'dope' or that the person was 'doped up' as opposed to it being 'pot' or him being 'a pot-head'?

If yes, then the police may have believed the assailant to have been on a drug(s) other than cannabis. The reason being that 'dope' is general slang for illegal drugs (and sometimes legal ones too).

again a possibility Jezz but looking more and more anti-police or more and more unwilling to see cannabis as the reason behind what happened.

I honestly can't recall the conversation word for word - time etc - but I do recall the word 'draw'* and I do recall the word 'high'

* anybody use that now - 80s word?

When all is said and speculated - a man with drugs in his systen chose to cut the face of a teenager with a stanley knife blade.

His mental state, awareness could all have been affected by the drugs in his system and there could have been other circumstances that are impossible to know now. Personal issues etc..? No idea and don't care.

It does seem that those using or those with use of pot in their background are going to some length to make it sound as if pot alone could not be the cause. If that is what you believe - so be it.

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again a possibility Jezz but looking more and more anti-police or more and more unwilling to see cannabis as the reason behind what happened.

Not sure where I am being 'anti-police' (although having worked closely with the Staffordshire police for 6 months about 6 years ago, and having witnessed the Norfolk police at work whilst as a student in Norwich, I admit that my opinion of the ability of the UK police can be a little sceptical on occasion.)

I am not unwilling to see cannabis as the reason behind what happened, I just find it unlikely compared to other possibilities. This is based on my reading of some literature on the matter, and by observing 'stoned' students at the University of East Anglia in my halls of residence. Of course drugs affect all people differently - alcohol for example can bring out a range of responses amongst its users - but it seems to me that someone 'high' on cannabis would be more likely to be looking for 'munchies' than for 'trouble'.

Perhaps the fact that the drug is illegal in the UK (and elsewhere) effects others opinions? By being illegal, it may make you think that it is more dangerous - and more likely to lead to violence - than 'legal' drugs such as tobacco and alcohol (which is of course also illegal in some countries).

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drunk people - once - at a fair when about 13/14 years old. 3 or 4 lads about 16/17, random beaing, didn't know them and walked round the waltzers, bumped one of their arms - that was all it took. Rough in the 80s Manchester. But rougher now I hear - nicknamed Gunchester and all.

I suppose so.A great of the fatalities are associated with the illegal drugs trade aren't they? When I went to Manchester University Moss Side and Longsight had a pretty notorious reputation-apparently the murder rate is 140 per 100,000 in these wards. But the violence generally didn't spill over into the student and University location sandwiched between these two areas.

Marijuana may be be a good thing.It may be a bad thing.But of course there are limitations with generalising from personal experience.

Anyway this gentleman seemed to enjoy the weed and apparently never had any problems getting into Japan.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YJRg5fGN-sQ

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Marijuana may be be a good thing.It may be a bad thing.But of course there are limitations with generalising from personal experience.

Anyway this gentleman seemed to enjoy the weed and apparently never had any problems getting into Japan.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YJRg5fGN-sQ

You do understand the difference between what Sir Paul did, and the former Mr. Olympia did...? (Blinking...)

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